Is the Sex Industry (Pornography Included) - in and of itself - Immoral?

[Shane Roach]

Because they are using their bodies - an artificial quality instead of hard work to earn money. Not to mention that pornography needs to be immoral in order for it to work - they make money by creating the image of "naughty". They want it to be "immoral" and "prohibited", because that's what attracts people to buy their stuff. It's the main sellpoint - watching something you know you're not supposed to.

In my opinion you're about half right.

There needs to be some way to prevent free consummation of the desire. Whether that is the threat of the law or simple threat of force, it is all the same.

 

[morningstar2651]

In my opinion you're about half right.

There needs to be some way to prevent free consummation of the desire. Whether that is the threat of the law or simple threat of force, it is all the same.

How do you suggest we force people not to have sex?

 

[Shane Roach]

How do you suggest we force people not to have sex?

I have no idea what you're referencing.

Talking about the formalities of making a commodity of something that is free and usually associated with being shared between friends rather than bought.

 

[sidhe]

How does everybody feel about temple prostitution?

On topic: The sex industry is based around what people fantasize about. You don't like porn that treats women as objects that exist for the pleasure of men? Don't talk about a woman's place being to do nothing more than care for her husband and children. Want porn that depicts women as being in pain to go away? Celebrate the fact that women can really really enjoy all kinds of sexual activities. Remove the virgin/harlot dichotomy from society, teach that they're one and the same, and watch things change. Porn/public sex hasn't degraded society, society has reduced sex to something shameful and dirty. Bring back the hierodules and qadeshitu! Sex is holy, sacred, and a sacrament. It should be like watching a televised church broadcast...not only in how we personally view it, but in terms of how much of a non-issue it should be for society.

 

[quatona]

Is this really the reason you think this occurs? Please consider your thoughts carefully and post your reply.

Ok, if you promise in return that you read my posts more carefully.
I didn´t say it was the reason for these things to occur, I said it was the reason why they are likely to occur more frequently in the sex industry than in other industries (e.g. are there unions in the sex industry?).
The reasons for exploitation and inhumane behaviour are typically greed and power issues (and if we look even deeper, the reason for greed and power issues is fear) - that is the same for all industries.

What if your son/daughter decided to become a sex worker?

What would be your thought processes or course of action, if any? Please walk me through that.

He/she would have to be an adult to work there, so there would of course be no course of action on my part.
Just like with any other job I would warn him/her of the general problems and risks that come with being an employee, and I would try to make him/her more aware of the particular risks that come with the particular job they are picking.

Thought process?
"What will he/she do when she will be too old for this job? Does he/she have a decent education so he/she can work in that job later?"
"He/she´s really picking the hard way. I wonder whether and how he/she will be talking to others about his/her job, what the reactions will be, and whether he/she can live with the responses."
"He/she could have chosen much worse, e.g. if he/she had decided to become a soldier."

The end is ultimately completing the work and getting a paycheck (maybe). Many people (millions) benefit from the work that sex workers do. Is that end justified through the means in which it was attained?

I still don´t understand the question.
By definition means are not even supposed to justify their end.

 

[HighwayMan]

Ok, if you promise in return that you read my posts more carefully.
I didn´t say it was the reason for these things to occur, I said it was the reason why they are likely to occur more frequently in the sex industry than in other industries (e.g. are there unions in the sex industry?).
The reasons for exploitation and inhumane behaviour are typically greed and power issues (and if we look even deeper, the reason for greed and power issues is fear) - that is the same for all industries.



He/she would have to be an adult to work there, so there would of course be no course of action on my part.
Just like with any other job I would warn him/her of the general problems and risks that come with being an employee, and I would try to make him/her more aware of the particular risks that come with the particular job they are picking.

Thought process?
"What will he/she do when she will be too old for this job? Does he/she have a decent education so he/she can work in that job later?"
"He/she´s really picking the hard way. I wonder whether and how he/she will be talking to others about his/her job, what the reactions will be, and whether he/she can live with the responses."
"He/she could have chosen much worse, e.g. if he/she had decided to become a soldier."


I still don´t understand the question.
By definition means are not even supposed to justify their end.

 

[andross77]

Yes, the industry is immoral. God decides morality and He has said sex only between 1 man and 1 woman and only within marriage. He has also said that lusting after another is equal to adultery.

The porn industry is the very definition of immoral and it will receive some of the harshest judgment on that Day for all the destruction and death it has caused.

 

[Andreusz]

I don't think stripping falls under the same category as sex tourism nor do I think online porn is anything like prostitution. But I digress. I think the sex industry has only one motive: money. They all know that sex sells. For pretty much everyone involved in the sex industry, it's pretty much about money. I'd like to say even the actors get more out of the money than the pleasure. That may not be true but I've never heard of a porn star declining a million dollars for a shooting and saying "That's okay, I just like the sex".

Apparently, male heterosexual porn stars earn practically nothing.

 

[Axioma]

I'd just like to inform you that stripping is not something you do instead of hard work to make money. It is, in fact, very hard work, and I can't imagine that prostitution or starring in pornographic movies is any easier.

Additionally, let us never mention the words "intelligent" and "fanfic" in the same sentence as if they belong together.

 

[gwenmead]

I don't think the sex industry is immoral in and of itself. I think it's a reflection of the culture it comes from, with all the implications that entails.

Once I wake up and have some coffee I might be able to speak intelligently about that.

 

[white dove]

I won't post the link, 'cause that would be against the rules, but type EXACTLY THIS into Google.

I did. I have some follow-up questions though. Is it a requirement within your religion to submit sexually to others in this fashion? Or is it merely a requirement to see the divine in sex and sexuality?

The word "mundane" is used quite often on the website. Why are occupations, other than that of Quadishtu, considered this way?

Is beastiality practiced within this sub-culture or would it be dishonorable? Considering this quote:

"10. Sacred sexuality becomes the vehicle for learning to honor the divine within oneself (immanent divinity, experiencing the divine in the body), and experiencing the divine interconnectedness with all of creation (namaste, om, o mitakuye oyasin). It is about recognizing and consciously participating in divine oneness."


The reason I am asking you these questions is because you'd mentioned petitioning for a spot, which means you have extensive knowledge of the inner-workings of this sect. I hope you understand.

On topic: The sex industry is based around what people fantasize about. You don't like porn that treats women as objects that exist for the pleasure of men? Don't talk about a woman's place being to do nothing more than care for her husband and children. Want porn that depicts women as being in pain to go away? Celebrate the fact that women can really really enjoy all kinds of sexual activities. Remove the virgin/harlot dichotomy from society, teach that they're one and the same, and watch things change. Porn/public sex hasn't degraded society, society has reduced sex to something shameful and dirty. Bring back the hierodules and qadeshitu! Sex is holy, sacred, and a sacrament. It should be like watching a televised church broadcast...not only in how we personally view it, but in terms of how much of a non-issue it should be for society.

Thank you for your post. I don't see the point in demonizing sex, nor in claiming that is it present in our lives strictly for procreative purposes only. If this were so, it would not be pleasurable and would not allow for connectedness with those involved. It is spiritual in nature, which is exhibited through the body - just as what we say with our mouths. That being said, it is because I prize sex and sexuality so much that I feel this way toward the sex industry, just as the other poster had stated (well, it is one of the main reasons why I feel this way). Sex has been marketed to make money off of other people in such a crude way. It exploits and further abuses those who seemingly have no other choice. I'm not surprised that sex tourism hasn't even been touched on, yet. It's very sad that people don't see any relation. Perhaps because they are afraid to.

 

[white dove]

I'd just like to inform you that stripping is not something you do instead of hard work to make money. It is, in fact, very hard work, and I can't imagine that prostitution or starring in pornographic movies is any easier.

I was hoping this wasn't directed at me (because the other statement wasn't, I'll assume it isn't). Sex workers work extremely hard. I can't imagine anyone that would argue otherwise.

Ok, if you promise in return that you read my posts more carefully.

I believe I did to the best of my ability and quoted exactly what I was using for that particular question. You were very succinct in your initial response. I was probing for more of an explanation.

The reasons for exploitation and inhumane behaviour are typically greed and power issues (and if we look even deeper, the reason for greed and power issues is fear)

Please explain.

- that is the same for all industries.

But, to such a degree as those within the sex industry?

I still don´t understand the question.
By definition means are not even supposed to justify their end.

I have no other way of framing that question. Perhaps I had a stroke and cannot correctly strain a question together to save my life, I don't know.

 

[sidhe]

I did. I have some follow-up questions though. Is it a requirement within your religion to submit sexually to others in this fashion? Or is it merely a requirement to see the divine in sex and sexuality?

Primarily to see the divine in sex and sexuality. It's like any other ministry - not all are called.

The word "mundane" is used quite often on the website. Why are occupations, other than that of Quadishtu, considered this way?

The same reason being a priest is not a mundane profession.

Is beastiality practiced within this sub-culture or would it be dishonorable? Considering this quote:

"10. Sacred sexuality becomes the vehicle for learning to honor the divine within oneself (immanent divinity, experiencing the divine in the body), and experiencing the divine interconnectedness with all of creation (namaste, om, o mitakuye oyasin). It is about recognizing and consciously participating in divine oneness.

"

Qabalistically, if you're connected with one, you're connected with all.

The reason I am asking you these questions is because you'd mentioned petitioning for a spot, which means you have extensive knowledge of the inner-workings of this sect. I hope you understand.

I'm don't have extensive knowledge of their particular workings, just the workings of such groups in general.

I'll finish responding later...

 

[sidhe]

Thank you for your post. I don't see the point in demonizing sex, nor in claiming that is it present in our lives strictly for procreative purposes only. If this were so, it would not be pleasurable and would not allow for connectedness with those involved. It is spiritual in nature, which is exhibited through the body - just as what we say with our mouths. That being said, it is because I prize sex and sexuality so much that I feel this way toward the sex industry, just as the other poster had stated (well, it is one of the main reasons why I feel this way). Sex has been marketed to make money off of other people in such a crude way. It exploits and further abuses those who seemingly have no other choice. I'm not surprised that sex tourism hasn't even been touched on, yet. It's very sad that people don't see any relation. Perhaps because they are afraid to.

I think it should be marketed as a spiritual practice. Seriously. Hierodules on salary. It'd get rid of a lot of the hang-ups people have.

 

[HighwayMan]

Sex workers work extremely hard. I can't imagine anyone that would argue otherwise.

You can say they are good at what they do, but spreading your legs or dancing around a pole isn't exactly my definition of "hard work".

 

[sidhe]

You can say they are good at what they do, but spreading your legs or dancing around a pole isn't exactly my definition of "hard work".

Pole dancing is hard work.

And if you're paying for the services, I'd expect more effort than "lie down and think of England."

 

[namaste_benry]

Thank you for your post. It's wonderful how you included different aspects not often thought about. I have nothing to say at the moment.

Thanks. We actually discuss a lot of these factors in my women's studies class. A lot of people seem to think anti-pornography necessarily means prudish or ashamed of sexuality, but it doesn't. I think porn is an insult to human sexuality.

Yes, the industry is immoral. God decides morality and He has said sex only between 1 man and 1 woman and only within marriage. He has also said that lusting after another is equal to adultery.

For the sake of being a devil's advocate, if a porn video featured a heterosexual, monogamous husband and wife enacting scenarios or posing, would it be immoral? Is it immoral to watch strippers if your wife is a stripper? What about if only married people were permitted to access porn, would that be ok?

Additionally, let us never mention the words "intelligent" and "fanfic" in the same sentence as if they belong together.

Tsk, tsk. It all depends on what you read. I know some fanfiction writers who wrote clever smut, turned their talents to original fic and are now published. Two of them wrote this, among others:

 

[quatona]

I believe I did to the best of my ability and quoted exactly what I was using for that particular question. You were very succinct in your initial response. I was probing for more of an explanation.

Well, did my last post help?

Please explain.

Since you bolded it, I conclude that you would like to see the fear part explained (correct me if I am wrong)?
It´s not really important. If you prefer to keep things simple and close to the actual issue, greed and power lust are sufficient for explanations for eploitation.
Personally, I think that all negative emotions evolve from fear in one way or the other. Maybe I just like this idea because "fear" allows me to have compassion and empathy for the person in question, while "greed", "power lust", "aggressiveness" etc. make it hard to relate to the person.

But, to such a degree as those within the sex industry?

No, probably not to such a degree. That was my very point. While the problem "in and of itself" is the same everywhere in industryand business, the degree is likely to be higher in the sex industry, just like with every industry or business that takes place behind close doors and in which therefore the employees do not benefit from the same rules and regulations that other workers do. Things that happen publicly simply allow for more protection and control. Think Abu Ghraib, for example.

I have no other way of framing that question. Perhaps I had a stroke and cannot correctly strain a question together to save my life, I don't know.

So far there is just one single question that doesn´t seem to be understood by many posters. I´m sure in other instances you are able to correctly strain a question together, even if it´s not about saving your life.
If you postulate that the means should justify the end - what do you think are the means, what do you think is the end, and why do you think these means should justify this end?
E.g. the end is "earning money"; the means is "having physical contact". Why would having physical contact have to justify earning money?If you´d ask "Does the end (earning money) justify the means (having physical contact, and oftentimes perhaps undesirable physical contact)?" I would at least have an idea what you would be asking.

 

[quatona]

Since this picture was your response to my post, I am assuming you would like me to understand it. Unfortunately I don´t. Care to explain what this picture is meant to tell me?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

IIs the Sex Industry (Pornography Included) - in and of itself - Immoral?

No.

Are there fundamental reasons we should be concerned about this industry?

Not really, but I can see practical issues with implementing a safe pornographic industry (the same goes for brothels, which are basically the same).

Can you see both sides of the argument?

Not particularly.

What if it was your child involved?

I would be disappointed, but supportive.

Do the means justify the end?

No.