Pope, King of the world?

[simonthezealot]

Your argument is a double edged sword bro.

You say 'it' is not the truth of Christ and others say that about you too.

Both sides are good at presenting references to scripture to support their theology. It is not fair to say it is versus the truth if Christ.

We will all know when our Judgment day comes that is for sure.

Jack your all wet on this, your church too is a servant of the word, and scripture in your church is part of that "word" of God, which your church should aid in maintaining the integrity of scripture by aligning with it. I need not a special interpretter to tell me that this bull does NOT align with scripture...Their are not many truths, otherwise Christ needn't come see John 18:37.

So if you'd like me and the readers to accept that in some twisted way unam is aligned with scripture truth, then by all means align it to the following verses...for starters!

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

 

[simonthezealot]

Frankly, its moot to me too. I don't see what the big hoo-hah is about. Monarchs of centuries ago loved to speak in high-fallutin' language about themselves. Kings and Princes and the like all had paintings of themselves with angels crowning them and all kinds of celestial stuff.

Riggght...You know full well that unam has been reconfirmed by Popes even upto and including JP2! It's not just some high fallutin language.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Np..........

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Another day, and more about the pope.
Gadzooks.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Np...........

 

[simonthezealot]

Another day, and more about the pope.
Gadzooks.

Your welcome to impart your insight to the topic of the thread or depart from the thread, elsewise your $.02 is of less than stated value.
In fact why even post if what you have to say offers absolutely NOTHING?

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Your welcome to impart your insight to the topic of the thread....

I did. I said its much ado about nothing. That is probably the most truthful post in the thread

...In fact why even post if what you have to say offers absolutely NOTHING?

I might ask you the same question. I have seen nothing in your posts of any interest.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Jack your all wet on this, your church too is a servant of the word, and scripture in your church is part of that "word" of God, which your church should aid in maintaining the integrity of scripture by aligning with it. I need not a special interpretter to tell me that this bull does NOT align with scripture...Their are not many truths, otherwise Christ needn't come see John 18:37.

So if you'd like me and the readers to accept that in some twisted way unam is aligned with scripture truth, then by all means align it to the following verses...for starters!

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Simon,

I see no conflict with these verses or any verses. I do not think I can make you see why that is either. My apologies for not taking the time right now to answer this for you. I think I have been spending too much time here and need a break. Let us so how long that lasts.

But quickly...

Ephesians 2:8-9: all glory to God and the Church which is part of God for it is His body so that we can find His grace in the Chruch as well.

Romans 10:9-10 as it stands I see no reason to explain anything.

1 Timothy 2:5 yes one mediator which is Jesus. We both agree.

Hebrews 9:15 and again I see nothing that would cause a problem with the Catholic theology.

You post these verses as though I am going to see a problem with what the Church teaches and I do not. I find agreement in it all. I am wondering how many here feel that way about their chruch, finding all scripture is in agreement. I know I find all scripture to be in agreement with the Catholic Church andf I have had plenty of occasions to show that here.

But all I ever see is answers from Catholics and I cannot recall any other person defending their faith. So I wonder if any other church out there can defend their faith so well as the Catholic Church can?

But that is it for me... I am going to try and stay away from the PC until tomorrow.

God Bless

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Np...........

 

[simonthezealot]

Simon,

I see no conflict with these verses or any verses. I do not think I can make you see why that is either. My apologies for not taking the time right now to answer this for you. I think I have been spending too much time here and need a break. Let us so how long that lasts.

But quickly...

Ephesians 2:8-9: all glory to God and the Church which is part of God for it is His body so that we can find His grace in the Chruch as well.

Romans 10:9-10 as it stands I see no reason to explain anything.

1 Timothy 2:5 yes one mediator which is Jesus. We both agree.

Hebrews 9:15 and again I see nothing that would cause a problem with the Catholic theology.

You post these verses as though I am going to see a problem with what the Church teaches and I do not. I find agreement in it all. I am wondering how many here feel that way about their chruch, finding all scripture is in agreement. I know I find all scripture to be in agreement with the Catholic Church andf I have had plenty of occasions to show that here.

But all I ever see is answers from Catholics and I cannot recall any other person defending their faith. So I wonder if any other church out there can defend their faith so well as the Catholic Church can?

But that is it for me... I am going to try and stay away from the PC until tomorrow.

God Bless

Jack the point is this, making subjection to the pontiff necessary for salvation places a mediator between God and man...Simple and to the point!

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Jack the point is this, making subjection to the pontiff necessary for salvation places a mediator between God and man...Simple and to the point!

It has nothing to do with mediation. Christians are subject to whatever authority Christ gave to Peter and from Peter to the popes. Therefore the pope is correct.

Christ did NOT give Peter the role of being mediator between God and man, therefore your post is nonsensical.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Tu Es Petrus, "King of the Thread"!

 

[simonthezealot]

It has nothing to do with mediation.

Maybe you'd like to explain what Paul meant then in the begining of
1 timothy 2: .....

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Maybe you'd like to explain what Paul meant then in the begining of
1 timothy 2: .....

No I wouldn't. What I'd like to do is demostrate the error of your post, and now you've afforded me the opportunity to do it twice. You said: "Jack the point is this, making subjection to the pontiff necessary for salvation places a mediator between God and man...Simple and to the point!". My reply to that, again, is that being subject to whatever authority Christ gave to Peter and from Peter to the popes has nothing to do with mediation, because Christ did NOT give Peter the role of being mediator between God and man. But, Christians are subject to whatever authority Christ DID give to Peter. These authorities include teaching, and binding & loosing for the wordwide Church.

 

[simonthezealot]

No I wouldn't. What I'd like to do is demostrate the error of your post, and now you've afforded me the opportunity to do it twice. You said: "Jack the point is this, making subjection to the pontiff necessary for salvation places a mediator between God and man...Simple and to the point!". My reply to that, again, is that being subject to whatever authority Christ gave to Peter and from Peter to the popes has nothing to do with mediation, because Christ did NOT give Peter the role of being mediator between God and man. But, Christians are subject to whatever authority Christ DID give to Peter. These authorities include teaching, and binding & loosing for the wordwide Church.

So then the pope lied when he said salvation demands you be subject to him?
mediator=a go between, bible says between God and mEn Christ is the mediator... If subjection to the pope stands in that equation then YES the pope is a go between (ie mediator) NOWHERE did Christ ever say people need be subject to Peter for salvation.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

So then the pope lied when he said salvation demands you be subject to him?......

Normatively speaking, salvation requires obedience to Christ. And if Christ chose Peter (and the popes who succeed him) to be the earthly shepherd of the Church, and Chrsitians reject what Christ established, then they are being disobedient to Christ. I believe that is pretty cut and dry.

However, there are always exceptions to the norm. For example, we believe Baptism is neccessary, but we recognize the neccessity of Baptism to be normative rather than absolute. So also he Church teaches that those who have no knowledge of Christ (and therefore by implication the pope) may also achieve salvation.

This is all quite simple to understand. One need only dispense with the histrionics and look at it with a clear slate to see the logic of it.

 

[simonthezealot]

and Chrsitians reject what Christ established, then they are being disobedient to Christ.

So then a requirement for salvation according to you then would be obedience to Christ...How much or how perfect of obedience is required for salvation?

 

[Trento]

So then a requirement for salvation according to you then would be obedience to Christ...How much or how perfect of obedience is required for salvation?

2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we should walk according to his commandments.This is the commandment, according as ye have heard from the beginning, that ye might walk in it.


1Jo 2:4 He that says, I know him, and does not keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

 

[Rick Otto]

So then a requirement for salvation according to you then would be obedience to Christ...How much or how perfect of obedience is required for salvation?

I would say just sincerely wanting to be obedient towards Christ is indicative of saving faith.
Why would I need to know,... is somebody issuing licences?

 

[spiritman]

I would say just sincerely wanting to be obedient towards Christ is indicative of saving faith.
Why would I need to know,... is somebody issuing licences?

When I was a catholic I was very much sincere and wanted to be obedient to Christ but found no power to live for Him. Then when I became born again I had the power of a new spirit to live for Christ. Sin no longer had dominion over me.

There are many that can be sincere about wanting to do what is good and right and yet be lost. A transformed life by the power of the Holy Spirit is indicative of being saved and not just a sincere wanting to be good or do good. Before I got saved I wanted to be good but kept on sinning which was indicative of being lost and not saved.

When I became born again it was natural for me to live a godly life because I had a new nature. And with that new godly nature was the power to live for Christ.