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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Jesus is my mother-a testimony
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Thanks! I appreciare it. Maybe I should take a vote on whether or not the thread should be closed.
I vote that its your OP and if you want it closed thats all that matters.
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Oooo, the original. That takes me back.
Heh, been on that road too and found out Hell is a bad place to be.
Do you suppose that was prophetic?
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Now get this...this is the last time I will say it. this thread was closed by the mods, examined for content and error and then reopened, yet you still complain about error. YOU are not a moderator, yet you still keep talking about what should or should not be allowed in OBOB.
MODS close the thread.
KTS, for real, mods have no more authority over what is error and what isn't then any of us. We have mods here who aren't even Catholic.
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So then why do people get up and arms and demand that certain things shouldn't be posted OBOB? There are rules...correct? The mods have to view the threads that people complain about and this thread was left to stand. I'm okay with that.
The point is there's all sorts of catholics here and no one should have to bow to the demanding few. If they were mods that would be a different story.
The point is there's all sorts of catholics here and no one should have to bow to the demanding few. If they were mods that would be a different story.
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Well that's the problem, there isn't supposed to be "all sorts of Catholics" here, there or anywhere when it comes to the teachings pertaining to faith or morals. We are supposed to me of one mind and that mind is the same mind of Christ.
The mods on this particular forum have never truly policed error in posts. They mainly just break up fights.
That's the main issue I have with this forum in genral. As long as no one is "flamed," or the rules are not broken, folks have been allowed to debate and argue and even dissent on the most basic of teachings.
You can post error on here all day long if you know how to be slick and stay with in the rules. There is one poster on here who is an expert at posting dissent but staying with in the rules.
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- Mar 3, 2006
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You know something...I know what you mean but it is not that easy. Some people think they have the exact correct interpretation of of what the theology or teaching mean. And they are not always right. And disagreeing with that is not the same as disagreeing with the Church.
Seriously only a few people here have actual formal training in Catholic theology and they are the ones who jump on "errors" the least. Because it is not just that cut and dry.
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I totally know and that is exactly the point I was making to KTS when she said twice that the mods reviewed the thread, as if that was some type of official approval.
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Amylisa
Yeshua's love is my life
- Mar 29, 2006
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I also "vote" that this is your thread KissTheSon and so it should be up to you alone, if you want to ask the mods to close it.
I love what Monica said earlier here....if we all suddenly found ourselves in heaven today, what would we say about each other? And I add, would we be ashamed of how we treated each other here.
Definitely something to think about.
And yes, this is just an internet forum! I think we need to lighten up. I know I do.
I love what Monica said earlier here....if we all suddenly found ourselves in heaven today, what would we say about each other? And I add, would we be ashamed of how we treated each other here.
Definitely something to think about.
And yes, this is just an internet forum! I think we need to lighten up. I know I do.
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Perhaps we should come up with a written examination posters must pass before being allowed admittance. Isn't that what the Church does? If you fail the examination you don't get to join, even if you want to.....
Bene you and TLF and BA and LivingWordUnity could proctor the test...of course you'd all be left just talking to yourselves, but at least there'd be no riff-raff allowed in.
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Maggie893
It is what it is.
This is what concerns me the most about threads like these. It's as though some feel that God can not see there words, actions and attitudes here. Why would we think that when we post here we are any less culpable for what we say, teach and how we treat others. Really we should be more responsible in what we post because anyone in the world could take what we say and use it for good or evil. While we have no control over what someone else might do with the information we have the ability to control what we put out to be used.
There are children on here that are very impressionable, even some adults that are incapable of discerning right from wrong. I don't agree with posting information that could lead others astray. I also don't agree with constant criticisms of others. Say your peace and be done with it.
Over 300 posts in this thread and few if any are edifying in the least. It's no wonder most folks don't stay around forl long. It's sad.
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CathNancy
Jesus I trust in You
Maggie I read your signature from Blessed Mother Teresa and I think it is very appropriate for this thread, "Words which do not give the light of Christ increase the darkness." We need to always express our thoughts with love and bear in mind how they will be received by those to whom they are directed. On occasion I have said something in error and it is because of how that error was pointed out to me that I was able to re-examine my thoughts, see where I was wrong. We are not God and we do not know everything, that is why He gave us the Church, so that we have a place that gives us the fullness of truth. Even there though, we have to research fully to be sure that we understand what the stand is on a subject by the Church. This involves a desire to know what the Church teaches and why and will involve some work on our part, but it has been my experience that it is well worth the effort.
I think that I understand where both sides are coming from, KTS is saying that Jesus was literally a mother to her when her birth mother was not there for her. I believe that Jesus is all things to those who believe in Him and therefore I believe that KTS is correct, at that time Jesus was her mother and I praise God for His love and mercy to her.
Benedicta and TLF are saying that this is not a title for God, Jesus Himself says that we are to pray Our Father not Our Mother. But I do not see where KTS is doing any more than relating her own experience and perhaps saying that Jesus can be a mother to others if they need Him to. This is not to say that this is a formal title for God. Everyone views God based on their own experiences, I see Jesus as the Good Shephard because He came, sought me out, and brought me back to the Church. I have known of others who see Him as the Bridegroom, I don't, but that does not mean that He is not so for others.
I pray that there be more peace in this thread and a desire on the part of all to try and understand what the other is saying.
Peace and all good,
Nancy
I think that I understand where both sides are coming from, KTS is saying that Jesus was literally a mother to her when her birth mother was not there for her. I believe that Jesus is all things to those who believe in Him and therefore I believe that KTS is correct, at that time Jesus was her mother and I praise God for His love and mercy to her.
Benedicta and TLF are saying that this is not a title for God, Jesus Himself says that we are to pray Our Father not Our Mother. But I do not see where KTS is doing any more than relating her own experience and perhaps saying that Jesus can be a mother to others if they need Him to. This is not to say that this is a formal title for God. Everyone views God based on their own experiences, I see Jesus as the Good Shephard because He came, sought me out, and brought me back to the Church. I have known of others who see Him as the Bridegroom, I don't, but that does not mean that He is not so for others.
I pray that there be more peace in this thread and a desire on the part of all to try and understand what the other is saying.
Peace and all good,
Nancy
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- Mar 3, 2006
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This is not aimed at anyone...I am simply presenting the current situation. This is for everyone...myself included.
One of the things I have done in my time here at CF is watch the welcome and new member areas. And if a new Catholic joins but does not come to OBOB in a few weeks I talk to them. Let them know it is here. This is a big place and hard to navigate.
After a few years of that I have a good handle on what kind of Catholics come here and why. We have several kinds. But the top few:
There are others, trolls...anti-Catholics, ultra-trads of the worse sort...but of the Catholics or inquiring of Catholics who join CF those are the top types.
Now I still do this. And for the most part Catholic reverts who join here do not come to OBOB because they see the narrow "kneel before Zod" theology that drove them away to begin with. They feel they are being told: "Don't think just do". Not that they oppose the proper teaching of the Catholic faith...but they do not agree with how it is presented here all the time...and they are told...forcefully...that that is the only way. And many believe it.
New converts and/or seekers see this same thing and think: "Wow..this is not the faith I want or thought I was part of." And they leave.
Sometimes these two groups leave the Church altogether. Because their faith is new and fragile.
I talk to the lurkers like this a lot. Because often they think my posts are reasonable and come to me for clarification or advice. This was especially true when I was on staff, but it has happened the times I was off staff as well.
These people do not oppose the Catholic faith as it exists. But they do not either understand or agree with those they see as cut and paste kneel before Zod, self appointed internet bishops. And trust me, that is how it comes off to many.
And they should not have to either agree with them or be run off from OBOB...and often the Catholic Church Herself. Their preists tell them something...but then they come here and hear something different...and the priest is not wrong. He is just trained to present it properly. And to understand that unalterable truth can have multiple valid expressions.
In the last 10 days I have talked to 2 reverts and a convert. And guided them to their priests and RCIA people when they wanted to leave the Church... Because OBOB had damaged them in their faith with narrow, long winded theological browbeating and above all circular rehashing bordering on harassment of others from thread to thread in a cycle of uncharitable acts.
Newman99 once told me that we post just as much if not more for those who we will never know are reading. Debbie1967 also told me that. And that is true. That is why over the past two years I have sought them out as best as I could when they joined but lurked.
And I want people to think...all of us...are we defending the Catholic faith...or have we...with the best intentions, begun defending our own subtle interpretations of the theology in a way filled with pride?
The truth does not chance but it can be multifaceted and still true. This is not modernism...this is the true face of Catholicism. The unalterable truth that is at the same time unchangeable but uniquely personal.
Have some of us gone too far where the slight and subtle nuances of how we see things...attack other valid expressions still in line with the faith.
It is something to think about and always be vigilant of ourselves. Before we speak we must ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit in making sure we are presenting the Truth in Charity in the way that will best reach the hearts God intends.
Without that...we are doing nothing but harm.
In humility may we all pray that the Holy Spirit guide us all as we talk to each other. May we grow together in both the Truth the Church teaches and the Charity She demands we give each other as brothers and sisters.
And let us always remember those we will never see who our words comfort or harm.
One of the things I have done in my time here at CF is watch the welcome and new member areas. And if a new Catholic joins but does not come to OBOB in a few weeks I talk to them. Let them know it is here. This is a big place and hard to navigate.
After a few years of that I have a good handle on what kind of Catholics come here and why. We have several kinds. But the top few:
- Catholics who know a good bit about their faith and want a wider community
- Either because theirs is small
- They want to know as many people as possible
- Or because they feel theirs is not "Catholic enough" for them
- Catholics who are new converts or reverts seeking to know more about their faith and in their zeal they seek out all knowledge and input. Also sometimes it is easier asking delicate questions on a message board than in person.
- Seekers of the faith
There are others, trolls...anti-Catholics, ultra-trads of the worse sort...but of the Catholics or inquiring of Catholics who join CF those are the top types.
Now I still do this. And for the most part Catholic reverts who join here do not come to OBOB because they see the narrow "kneel before Zod" theology that drove them away to begin with. They feel they are being told: "Don't think just do". Not that they oppose the proper teaching of the Catholic faith...but they do not agree with how it is presented here all the time...and they are told...forcefully...that that is the only way. And many believe it.
New converts and/or seekers see this same thing and think: "Wow..this is not the faith I want or thought I was part of." And they leave.
Sometimes these two groups leave the Church altogether. Because their faith is new and fragile.
I talk to the lurkers like this a lot. Because often they think my posts are reasonable and come to me for clarification or advice. This was especially true when I was on staff, but it has happened the times I was off staff as well.
These people do not oppose the Catholic faith as it exists. But they do not either understand or agree with those they see as cut and paste kneel before Zod, self appointed internet bishops. And trust me, that is how it comes off to many.
And they should not have to either agree with them or be run off from OBOB...and often the Catholic Church Herself. Their preists tell them something...but then they come here and hear something different...and the priest is not wrong. He is just trained to present it properly. And to understand that unalterable truth can have multiple valid expressions.
In the last 10 days I have talked to 2 reverts and a convert. And guided them to their priests and RCIA people when they wanted to leave the Church... Because OBOB had damaged them in their faith with narrow, long winded theological browbeating and above all circular rehashing bordering on harassment of others from thread to thread in a cycle of uncharitable acts.
Newman99 once told me that we post just as much if not more for those who we will never know are reading. Debbie1967 also told me that. And that is true. That is why over the past two years I have sought them out as best as I could when they joined but lurked.
And I want people to think...all of us...are we defending the Catholic faith...or have we...with the best intentions, begun defending our own subtle interpretations of the theology in a way filled with pride?
The truth does not chance but it can be multifaceted and still true. This is not modernism...this is the true face of Catholicism. The unalterable truth that is at the same time unchangeable but uniquely personal.
Have some of us gone too far where the slight and subtle nuances of how we see things...attack other valid expressions still in line with the faith.
It is something to think about and always be vigilant of ourselves. Before we speak we must ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit in making sure we are presenting the Truth in Charity in the way that will best reach the hearts God intends.
Without that...we are doing nothing but harm.
In humility may we all pray that the Holy Spirit guide us all as we talk to each other. May we grow together in both the Truth the Church teaches and the Charity She demands we give each other as brothers and sisters.
And let us always remember those we will never see who our words comfort or harm.
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Whenever Benedicta sees someone in the wrong, whether it be their attitude or their understanding of Church teaching she calls them out. She cannot, however, take the critisim when it's aimed at her. She just ingores it and continues mantra-ing her spam.
If you all want to incorporate blame amongst everyone, remind everyone of how we won't be like this in heaven, as a means of not pointing the finger where it should so clearly be pointed-- if that makes you feel better and more holy, more power to you. I am done doing that. If she can stand in judgement of others, as she as SO often done, she should be able to take it when it comes her way.
If you all want to incorporate blame amongst everyone, remind everyone of how we won't be like this in heaven, as a means of not pointing the finger where it should so clearly be pointed-- if that makes you feel better and more holy, more power to you. I am done doing that. If she can stand in judgement of others, as she as SO often done, she should be able to take it when it comes her way.
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Just a little point of clearification here... Benedicta and TLF were not the only ones who had a problem with what the OP implied and how it was designed to TEACH us a "new vision" (that "Jesus is our heavenly mother" and "the greater mother" over Mary).
it was a lot of other ppl to.
What has happened here is a few posters on here (who really don't have a dog in this fight), hate me and TLF, so they will side with jesus is the tooth fairy if it is an opportunity to say how horrible and mean we are.
I was abundantly clear and i make no further apologies, I have no issue at all with how KTS feels about Jesus filling a void in her life. I have nothing but love and empathy towards her and I pray for her and her parents. I even shared my own personal experience with my own mother... me and TLF are not out to get her or humiliate her.
Sooo, i can not help how others are perceiving this due to their own bias, i made myself totally clear. i can't do no more.
peace out.
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You forgot to mention all the folks who have left the forum and it was not just over 7- what ever- 07.
it was over all the dissent. I myself have left several times over it. So liberals and weak faith ppl need to come to terms, just as many want to quit the Church becuase of them too.
That knife cuts both ways.
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