6 point proof for the post trib rapture

[A Brother In Christ]

Heb 11:3-20 abraham... was not given the promise that God gave us... heb 11:39-40

no response... come on ...

 

[Hismessenger]

The promise was given to Abraham 400 years before the law was handed down.

Hbr 6:13For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself,

If you don't know about the promise? Christ was that promise which Abraham knew. That is why I posted Gal 3:8

hismessenger

 

[A Brother In Christ]

that is not in the context of Heb 11... both groups get Christ

what is the other promise... Heb 11:39-40

 

[Hismessenger]

A Brother in Christ,

look at the last verse in Heb 11.

Hbr 11:40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

They are made perfect along with us. This is a part of the mystery for it began in the old testament and finds it's conclusion in the new. In other words they were made perfect in their faith so God gave us something that would put us on the same level. God is not partial and this verse proves it.

hismessenger

 

[A Brother In Christ]

both groups are made perfect BUT We still have something Better... what is it!

 

[Hismessenger]

You tell me because I don't believe there can be anything better than having Christ in your life. Being made perfect in Him for all of us.

hismessenger

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Jew that have believed will have Christ as King and eternal life... on earth

The Church those that believe have eternal life and will be a bride in the heavens in the future always by the LORD

 

[A Brother In Christ]

heb 12:22-24 has two different groups of humans ...
please state them and tell me who you think they are ....

 

[Hismessenger]

Show me where you see a difference. By what I read they are one and the same. In the military you have officers and enlisted men who all make up the military. If I said to you to the assembly and officers am I talking about two different military's or different aspects of the same military.

hismessenger

 

[A Brother In Christ]

God uses different words ... God the Father , God the Son

are they they same character yes but different persons

 

[JDS]

The tribulation is the wrath of God. It is a prophetic utterance and has not come upon the earth as yet. God says he has determined to save his children from the wrath to come.

Ro 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

1Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Re 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

One would not have to know anything else but that God has promised to deliver us from the wrath to come. He would not have to understand how God is going to deliver us in order to believe what he plainly says he will do. If there are those who simply do not desire to believe that God will rapture his church before his judgment because it will do violence to their system of theology, then they should still believe that God is going to save the church from his wrath simply because he says he will.

 

[Hismessenger]

What most amazes me is the belief that there will be two separate bodies of believers, One Jewish and the other gentile. The scripture plainly says that there is ONE GOD, ONE BODY. Not two separate and distinct bodies with one head but one body with one head made up of many members. The same as our flesh bodies. Christ the head and Jew and gentile together the body. There is no separation in Christ because if it were so, then even His disciples wouldn't belong to His one body.

hismessenger

 

[A Brother In Christ]

What most amazes me is the belief that there will be two separate bodies of believers, One Jewish and the other gentile.

The Church is either Jew or Gentile gal 3:28 but a new man eph 2:15 promised the heavens phil 3:20-21

Jews are promise the earth.... Matt 5:5 Gentile will be servants to them

The scripture plainly says that there is ONE GOD, ONE BODY. Not two separate and distinct bodies with one head but one body with one head made up of many members.

Yet eph 2:11-12 states that Gentiles had no hope... Gentile was scrum of the earth according to Jews

The same as our flesh bodies. Christ the head and Jew and gentile together the body. There is no separation in Christ because if it were so, then even His disciples wouldn't belong to His one body.

hismessenger

Yet why do Jews from the OT have to wait 75 days after the 2nd coming to recieve eternal life dan 12:2,11-12, rev 12:6 and WE recieve it upon belief 1 jn 5:11-13


different promises We are the firstfruits romans 8:23 Heb 12:23

 

[Hismessenger]

Show us where in scripture that it says that have to wait 75 days. That is another of the doctrines of men, Not God.

hismessenger

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Show us where in scripture that it says that have to wait 75 days. That is another of the doctrines of men, Not God.

hismessenger

have to connect Dan 12:2,
11 .... 1290 days
12 1335 days get resurrected
rev 12:6... 1260 days 2nd coming

 

[Hismessenger]

I don't see anything about 75 days. Doctrine of some man, not Holy Spirits teaching and leading.

hismessenger

 

[A Brother In Christ]

have to connect Dan 12:2,
11 .... 1290 days
12 1335 days get resurrected
rev 12:6... 1260 days 2nd coming

I don't see anything about 75 days. Doctrine of some man, not Holy Spirits teaching and leading.

hismessenger

these three numbers all start at the same point
1260 days +30 = 1290 + 45 = 1335

total 75 days

I do think romans 11:26 is added into this mix But I do not quite understand or have put the pieces of scripture quite together to explain it

 

[Hismessenger]

Here is truth that can't be refuted. The church is still here during the wrath brought on the earth. They are one of the two witnesses killed by the beast. If you don't believe it then read what the word says.

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Take special note of what it says in the highlighted portion. Now here is the the proof which can't be denied. Who are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks. They are the two witnesses but the scripture goes on to tell you who they are.

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Now I ask you to believe that the church is still here during the tribulation.Why are they still here? Because they are a witness for Christ and until they are taken out of the way, the lost still have a chance to repent. They are killed by the beast being the two witnesses. Can you now continue to denied the truth. The church is going through the wrath as witnesses for God. Being Killed and resurrected to reign with Christ for the thousand years.

So there can be no misunderstanding The two witnesses are

Rev 11:3 And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

See the witnesses are responsible for some of the wrath of God. The bottom line is, THE CHURCH IS STILL HERE DURING THE WRATH BROUGHT UPON THE EARTH. THEY ARE KEPT FROM HARM UNTIL THEY HAVE FINISHED THE WORK WE ARE CALLED TO DO.

What I have said is bourne out by many other scripture. Don't take my word for it but believe what is written in the word.

hismessenger

 

[A Brother In Christ]

those guys are saint ... yes ... never is God indwelling them thus not the church

 

[Hismessenger]

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Rev 11:3 And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

The church is still here during the wrath which God will pour out on the earth. IN fact, they are responsible for the coming of some of the plagues.

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

The other witnesses are angels who preach the everlasting Gospel for the first time.

Look at Rev 14

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed [are] the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
{quote]

It goes on to give the order of how the endtime judgement will be ministered out. First the vine of the earth is gathered and pressed into the winepress of the wrath of God. At this time will the church be separated from the wicked and this is where the rapture is done. During the wrath of God, not before for God will keep His people. Many will be killed for their testimony ala the two witnesses.

But the bottom line is, the church is here during the wrath poured out on sinful man. They are the last chance for many who will here them before they are taken by God. They are that which restrains and until they are taken out of the way, mankind still has a chance for salvation. What is the meaning of salvation? To be saved from the wrath of God which will befall all who do not heed the call.

hismessenger