If homosexuality is proven to be biological . . .

[OphidiaPhile]

Yes!,
our (divinely-appointed) job as a Christian:
"love God with all your soul/mind & heart, and to love our neighbor as GOD loves us."
& "make sure that your own house is in order"

And allow the LORD/GOD, our Creator, Parent, Teacher, SAVIOR, Exemplar, Resurrector, & Best-friend (including in the Bible), to decide what is spiritually-Safe, emotionally-Productive, & physically-Healthy; after all this is how GOD created us.

Additionally, as teachers, we guide individuals,
(misled into assuming nature & genetics determine who they are), into regaining their spiritual-Safety, emotional-Productivity, & physical-Health leading each back to her/his highest choice.

These are facts, KCKID

Facts would need undisputed empirical evidence so therefore they are merely conjecture and poor conjecture at that.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

I can't see the Prop 8 situation being any different if it had gone the other way. The people decided what they wanted based upon their own beliefs. Had the results been the other way, and it was challenged in court, folks would feel the same way.

The majority cannot take away the rights of the minority.

 

[Zaac]

I think Obama's views on this subject are meaningful.

Meaningful only to him and those who feel as he does. He's not a citizen of California so his views really don't mean much in the grand scheme of California.

He has personally stated that he does not support gay marriage, yet opposed Proposition 8 because it infringed on the rights of homosexuals.

That's his opinion. The majority of Californians apparently disagree with that viewpoint. They voted based upon their own opinions and beliefs.

Gay marriage has not been proven to hurt anyone, and marriage is a fundamental right in our society today.

It hasn't been proven to help anyone either. Marriage is not a right in the United States anymore than owning a house is a right. If it were a right and not a privilege, Government wouldn't get to decide the parameters of marriage as far as who can/cannot be married and how many people one person can/cannot be married to at the same time.

In the context that gays are looking at, marriage is a privilege.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

And allow the LORD/GOD, our Creator, Parent, Teacher, SAVIOR, Exemplar, Resurrector, & Best-friend (including in the Bible), to decide what is spiritually-Safe, emotionally-Productive, & physically-Healthy; after all this is how GOD created us.


Bible is studied & understood via inspiration, such that -
No-humans would be enslaved in our household,
&
Lobster & shrimp can be enjoyed with no ill-effects, by whoever chooses to eat such.

What?, pray tell, has either to do, with an Individual's CHOICE to exist as a homo-sexual

And prove your assertion that it is in any way a choice, of course proving Psychiatry and science wrong will not be possible.

 

[Zaac]

The majority cannot take away the rights of the minority.

If the vote had gone the other way, could the majority have taken away from the minority their right to leave the definition of marriage defined as between one man and one woman?

 

[OphidiaPhile]

If the vote had gone the other way, could the majority have taken away from the minority their right to leave the definition of marriage defined as between one man and one woman?

Marriage is not defined as between one man and one woman in secular marriage, only on religious marriage. What you do with religious marriage should not be used to define secular marriage.

 

[sk8Joyful]

And prove your assertion that it is in any way a choice,
(of course proving Psychiatry and science wrong), will not be possible.

except

(former homo-sexuals), who already have changed back to being straight, are living their life... safer , happier , & healthier ; just like the Lord/GOD promised.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

except

(former homo-sexuals), who already have changed back to being straight, are living their life... safer , happier , & healthier ; just like the Lord/GOD promised.

Ok, thanks for proving that you have no evidence to support your assertions. Religious texts are not valid in science by the way.

As for safer, happier and healthier, those are also obvious fallacy.

 

[Zaac]

Marriage is not defined as between one man and one woman in secular marriage, only on religious marriage.

Well when the state starts recognizing marriage to be defined as something other than what religion has defined it to be in the United States from the time of the founding of this nation, come back and let me know.

For 232 years, marriage has been defined the same way in the United States-in accordance with the Christian beliefs of the folks who founded the country.

What you do with religious marriage should not be used to define secular marriage.

Absent religious marriage established by God with Adam and Eve, there wouldn't be any marriage. So if you can go back and change that and where historically marriage has been a religious event, then we have somewhere to separate the two.

The proponents of same-sex marriage just seem to think that folks are supposed to throw away thousands of years of doing things the religious way should be tossed out because they now see a need to differentiate between the "religious" way and the wants of those who want same sex marriage.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Well when the state starts recognizing marriage to be defined as something other than what religion has defined it to be in the United States from the time of the founding of this nation, come back and let me know.

For 232 years, marriage has been defined the same way in the United States-in accordance with the Christian beliefs of the folks who founded the country.

You can keep telling yourself that the Founding Fathers were Christian in beliefs but the facts say otherwise. And in most states the definition of marriage has always been fluid, you cannot use the bible to define that which is of a secular nation.

Absent religious marriage established by God with Adam and Eve, there wouldn't be any marriage. So if you can go back and change that and where historically marriage has been a religious event, then we have somewhere to separate the two.

Marriage was not a religious event until the church decided that it in fact was a few centuries ago. SO if you want to be accurate you stole it from the Pagans and should give it back to them.

The proponents of same-sex marriage just seem to think that folks are supposed to throw away thousands of years of doing things the religious way should be tossed out because they now see a need to differentiate between the "religious" way and the wants of those who want same sex marriage.

Religion has not been doing things the same way for thousands of years at all.

And again religion cannot be used to deny a minority of basic civil rights. Remember the Establishment Clause, if you can get that removed then you can use religion to do whatever you want.

 

[Garyzenuf]

Those of you who believe that are still gonna CHOOSE to do what you want to do, and those of us who CHOOSE to obey God will still CHOOSE to call your sin, sin.

And we will continue to see people such as yourself as heavily deluded, and in need of a big dose of reality...

Tit for Tat.

*

 

[Zaac]

You can keep telling yourself that the Founding Fathers were Christian in beliefs but the facts say otherwise.

I'm not telling myself anything. Just looking at the reasons for why they left England to form the country in the first place.

And in most states the definition of marriage has always been fluid, you cannot use the bible to define that which is of a secular nation.

In EVERY state, marriage has been static up until recently. That's why it's only recognized state-wide in TWO states.

Marriage was not a religious event until the church decided that it in fact was a few centuries ago. SO if you want to be accurate you stole it from the Pagans and should give it back to them.

Stop being silly. Marriage has been a religious event for the last almost 6000 years.

Religion has not been doing things the same way for thousands of years at all.

Christianity has.

And again religion cannot be used to deny a minority of basic civil rights.

Mariage ain't a civil right. It is and always has been, in the United States, a privilege defined by the government in accordance with Biblical tradition. Otherwise, you'd have the RIGHT to marry your dog, a piece of paper or as many wives as you like in the United States.

If yall want folks to recognize the non-religious definition of marriage, go to Canada or Belgium. We're not doing that in this United States.

Remember the Establishment Clause, if you can get that removed then you can use religion to do whatever you want.

The Establishment Clause was to keep us from establishing a national religion. It does not prevent us from having religion and religious beliefs.

 

[Zaac]

And we will continue to see people such as yourself as heavily deluded, and in need of a big dose of reality...

Tit for Tat.

*

You have a Question Mark up for your faith, yet the ones who know what they believe are perceived by you as deluded?

 

[WhatThe]

except

(former homo-sexuals), who already have changed back to being straight, are living their life... safer , happier , & healthier ; just like the Lord/GOD promised.

Are you gay, Sk8joyful? No? Then how could you possibly know if it's a choice or not?
If you were put in a 'program', you could be turned gay. Quite easily, in fact. Except that you wouldn't really BE gay, you would just learn how to act that way. You would learn how to have a relationship with someone of the same gender, and you would learn to hide your "sick, unnatural attraction" to people of the opposite gender.

The majority of people who undergo 'therapy' DO NOT become straight. They simply learn to act that way. And the majority of them eventualy break free of the brainwashing.

There is no psychological, psychiatric, or medical association that supports conversion therapy. In fact, they all state that it is HARMFUL to attempt to change a person's sexuality.

And btw, you can not change someone 'back' to straight if they weren't straight to begin with.

On another note, people are, on average, happier, healthier and safer when they are true to themselves, not repressed.

I would LOVE to see some studies that support your claims.

 

[WhatThe]

You have a Question Mark up for your faith, yet the ones who know what they believe are perceived by you as deluded?

That question mark stand for Agnostic. It is the belief that humans do not have the ability to know for sure if there is a god, or gods, and what their purpose is.
Which is much more logical, and much less conceited.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

I'm not telling myself anything. Just looking at the reasons for why they left England to form the country in the first place.

You do realize that the founding fathers were not even alive when the US was settled from England don't you.

In EVERY state, marriage has been static up until recently. That's why it's only recognized state-wide in TWO states.

Wrong again.

Stop being silly. Marriage has been a religious event for the last almost 6000 years.

And again not true.

Christianity has.

Christianity has not existed for 6000 years. And 6000 years ago there were more than one species of man.

Mariage ain't a civil right. It is and always has been, in the United States, a privilege defined by the government in accordance with Biblical tradition. Otherwise, you'd have the RIGHT to marry your dog, a piece of paper or as many wives as you like in the United States.

No it has not been defined by the bible, marriage is primarily a civil contract between the parties involved. Why must people use the marry your dog argument I guess they are not familiar with Strawman. Dogs cannot consent, adult humans can.

If yall want folks to recognize the non-religious definition of marriage, go to Canada or Belgium. We're not doing that in this United States.

Yes we already are, all marriages get a marriage license, that is not from the church nor is it defined by the church.

The Establishment Clause was to keep us from establishing a national religion. It does not prevent us from having religion and religious beliefs.

But it keeps those beliefs out of government.

 

[Zaac]

That question mark stand for Agnostic. It is the belief that humans do not have the ability to know for sure if there is a god, or gods, and what their purpose is.
Which is much more logical, and much less conceited.

I know what it is up for. And all it means is YOU don't know so you don't think anyone else is capable of knowing.

Yours is arrogance.
Ours is assurance.

 

[WhatThe]

I know what it is up for. And all it means is YOU don't know so you don't think anyone else is capable of knowing.

Yours is arrogance.
Ours is assurance.

You honestly don't see the arrogance in believing your belief to be above those of everyone else?
Note: I didn't say that i'm Agnostic. I was simply explaining it to you.

 

[Zaac]

You do realize that the founding fathers were not even alive when the US was settled from England don't you.

It depends on what you're calling Founding Fathers. Historically speaking, we were taught about the Founding Fathers with the first settlers and then the Founding Fathers who established the United States as a union.

So if you're referring to the latter, yes. I realize they weren't alive. But they weren't the Founding Fathers to whom I was referring.

Wrong again.

Marriage being between one man and one woman has pretty much been static in the United States since the time of its founding.

And again not true.

Biblical accounts say otherwise.

Christianity has not existed for 6000 years. And 6000 years ago there were more than one species of man.

Biblical accounts disagree with you.

No it has not been defined by the bible, marriage is primarily a civil contract between the parties involved. Why must people use the marry your dog argument I guess they are not familiar with Strawman. Dogs cannot consent, adult humans can.

Genesis 2:24 disagrees with you. 24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
Gen. 2:24

Yes we already are, all marriages get a marriage license, that is not from the church nor is it defined by the church.

There were certificates of divorce, so why not marriage?

But it keeps those beliefs out of government.

No it doesn't. That's why Congress can pray before each session. That's why the President takes the Oath of Office on the Bible. That's why our money says "In God we Trust."

It keeps the government from establishing a national religion. It does NOT keep religious beliefs out of government.

 

[Zaac]

You honestly don't see the arrogance in believing your belief to be above those of everyone else?

You honestly don't see the arrogance in thinking that all beliefs have to be equal or on par with God's?

Note: I didn't say that i'm Agnostic. I was simply explaining it to you.

Note: I know what an agnostic is.