Thoughts on a Barack quote?

[Godzman]

children are punishment to those who view it like that, and most 16 year old girls won't be like oh boy I get to have a baby, although there are some who will.

 

[cantata]

Do foetuses mind being aborted?

 

[ReadingForOrders]

Of course they do. It is for that reason they believe the 'punishment' is justified.

Actually it has much more to do with the fact that the innocent life has the right to be alive.

 

[ReadingForOrders]

Do foetuses mind being aborted?

Only sure way to know is to let them grow to the point that they can speak and ask.

 

[MarcusHill]

I think that the end of that "sound bite" (text bite?) explains more about what he is saying:

“Look, I got two daughters — 9 years old and 6 years old,” Obama said. “I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby. I don’t want them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn’t make sense to not give them information.”

Oh, it's a bit of quote mining. Why am I not surprised?

 

[cantata]

Only sure way to know is to let them grow to the point that they can speak and ask.

I think we can make an educated guess, which seems like a better approach than forcing a woman through at least nine months of physical and emotional trauma and discomfort, culminating in an extremely painful, life-threatening medical procedure, on the off-chance that the foetus would have been bothered by being aborted.

Not that doing that would answer the question anyway, of course. Saying that we should wait until the foetus is grown-up to ask it whether it would have minded being aborted is like saying that we shouldn't give babies animal products in case, when they're able to speak for themselves, they express the desire to be vegans. I know that there's a very beguiling illusion of a single, unified consciousness that inhabits a changing body, but it is indeed an illusion. You can't superimpose the priorities and desires of an adult human being on an unconscious foetus.

Do *you* know whether, as a foetus, you would have minded being aborted? The very fact that you couldn't give an answer to the question, "Do foetuses mind being aborted?" indicates that waiting for them to grow up and then asking them won't answer the question either.

 

[TeddyKGB]

Actually it has much more to do with the fact that the innocent life has the right to be alive.

I understand that is your reasoning; I don't expect you call it a punishment. It is nonetheless a punishment by circumstance if you unilaterally remove other options.

 

[ReadingForOrders]

I think we can make an educated guess, which seems like a better approach than forcing a woman through at least nine months of physical and emotional trauma and discomfort, culminating in an extremely painful, life-threatening medical procedure, on the off-chance that the foetus would have been bothered by being aborted.

Not that doing that would answer the question anyway, of course. Saying that we should wait until the foetus is grown-up to ask it whether it would have minded being aborted is like saying that we shouldn't give babies animal products in case, when they're able to speak for themselves, they express the desire to be vegans. I know that there's a very beguiling illusion of a single, unified consciousness that inhabits a changing body, but it is indeed an illusion. You can't superimpose the priorities and desires of an adult human being on an unconscious foetus.

Do *you* know whether, as a foetus, you would have minded being aborted? The very fact that you couldn't give an answer to the question, "Do foetuses mind being aborted?" indicates that waiting for them to grow up and then asking them won't answer the question either.

But your implication that they may not mind being aborted is based upon silence. An imperfect knowledge, vs. no knowledge at all. I'll take the imperfect knowledge.

I have however been directed by my Spiritual Father that this is not an appropriate use of my time. It was not my intention to be confrontational, only to speak for those most innocent in our society that cannot speak for themselves.

You all will continue to be in my prayers, however in obedience to those who have authority over me, this must be my final post on the matter.

I pray peace for you.

 

[cantata]

But your implication that they may not mind being aborted is based upon silence. An imperfect knowledge, vs. no knowledge at all. I'll take the imperfect knowledge.

How could it mind when it isn't conscious?

 

[ReadingForOrders]

How could it mind when it isn't conscious?

I have been unconscious several times in my life. I can assure you that I would have minded had someone attempted to end my life.

 

[ReverendDG]

I have been unconscious several times in my life. I can assure you that I would have minded had someone attempted to end my life.

except there is a difference between being unconscious and not wanting your life ended, and never having been conscious to begin with to feel a sense of self-preservation

as its been said do you think a fetus cares if it gets aborted?
i don't think so, if you have never experienced anything at all, would you care about life?

 

[TeddyKGB]

I have been unconscious several times in my life. I can assure you that I would have minded had someone attempted to end my life.

You wouldn't have minded had they succeeded.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

“Look, I got two daughters — 9 years old and 6 years old,” he said. “I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby"

Okay, go!

It shows what he is.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

except there is a difference between being unconscious and not wanting your life ended, and never having been conscious to begin with to feel a sense of self-preservation

as its been said do you think a fetus cares if it gets aborted?
i don't think so, if you have never experienced anything at all, would you care about life?

Watch the movie A Silent Scream. The baby in the uterus slams itself to the other side of it when someone is trying to kill it by forced abortion.

This generation is lacking in research.

A person can be dismembered, bits and pieces found in shallow grave, and the authorities can identify HIM or HER by their DNA.

ALL PRESENT AT CONCEPTION.

There is no longer justification for an abortion for convenience.

Anyone believing that a fetus is not a human being only has to look in a mirror to prove that he or she "is."

 

[cantata]

Watch the movie A Silent Scream. The baby in the uterus slams itself to the other side of it when someone is trying to kill it by forced abortion.

I dare say piglets, amoebas, and houseflies can be observed doing precisely the same thing.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

I dare say piglets, amoebas, and houseflies can be observed doing precisely the same thing.

ALL are living things. And it would prove self preservation exists in the unborn human being.

Now we're getting closer to a civilized conversation about human beings. One step at a time.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Integrity needs morals in our common ground like our constitution as a country is common ground. People do undermine common ground for what? It isn't for the good of the people. That s for sure. More for personal agendas.

Everybody has their own morality or are you attempting to say that there should be a common morality with the bible as the foundation of exactly what is or is not moral?

I would not want my children punished with a baby before they were ready either that does not mean that the baby is punishment but the changes that would be associated with that choice. I want them to go to college and do exactly what they want to do in life, I went to UC Berkeley and they should have the same opportunity if that is what they so choose.

I am a felon (if I am caught) in the town I live in since in this particular town it is illegal to keep Boas and Pythons, it was legal when I moved here 15 years ago but that changed a couple years ago. So what are my choices, turn them in, sell them , move or risk jail, I choose the latter which does not make me immoral I am just choosing the path I take. I could no more give them up than cut my arm off.


So you choose the morals you wish to live by and I will do the same.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Integrity needs morals in our common ground like our constitution as a country is common ground. People do undermine common ground for what? It isn't for the good of the people. That s for sure. More for personal agendas.

One more thing we have in our other candidate for president someone that is far less moral if you ask me a man that called his wife the C word a word that should never be used under any circumstances. He divorced on wife immediately after she was disfigured and married an heiress. Which person represents the morals you would chooses to teach your children?

 

[cantata]

ALL are living things. And it would prove self preservation exists in the unborn human being.

Self preservation ≠ caring about whether or not you survive.

Do you really think amoebas think to themselves, "Gosh, I'd really rather someone didn't kill me"? Do you think it's cruel to kill an amoeba?

Now we're getting closer to a civilized conversation about human beings. One step at a time.

You are quite astoundingly unpleasant at times.

No, that's not an ad hom. I know it has nothing to do with the discussion. I just wanted you to know.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Actually I think it shows that he believes children to be disposable when inconvenient and a "punishment." As for choice; I firmly believe in a womans right to chose whether she has a child or not, and that choice should be made before it involves the murder of an innocent child.

We don't have the choice to murder them at birth, why before birth?

A fetus is not a child.