Biblical support for gay sex? A simple question

[Dogbean]

Wow! Finally, an answer to the question I've asked so often. Okay, so if homosexuality is against his plan, why did God create people like me whose only sexual feelings are homosexual?

Why does God create people who can't walk? Why does God create people who are mentally retarded, and don't even have the mental capacity to understand salvation? These are just the things that happen, that we can't explain. Perhaps so He could be glorified if you accepted Christ and through the transforming power of His Word and the Holy Spirit, gave up homosexual acts.

I'm an atheist. I'm not going to accept 'Because God sez' as a reason. You or he will have to provide convincing arguments.

I'm a lunitic. I've decided not to accept thousands of years of physics research, and I've decided I don't believe in gravity because it's not logical; we can't see it, we can't explain it. Therefore, I'm going to walk off the top of this building, and I will not fall because I don't believe in the illogical force of gravity.

Please bear in mind this is not meant as an insult or namecalling to Andreusz. It's just meant to be an analogy.

 

[Andreusz]

Since God defines homosexuality to be a sin, it is no different than murder, lying, stealing, dishonoring your parents, etc. It's a behavior that can be overcome. God never says "don't be a homosexual." He never recognizes homosexuals as one type of person and heterosexuals as another type.

Maybe some people can overcome the behaviour, though I cannot imagine why they would want to. I have read several of the 'testimonies' of ex-gays, and they don't look very convincing to me ... they look like the words of people in denial.But there are many more people whose homosexuality is central to their very being, and who cannot simply change their feelings to become heterosexual. This idea is that homosexuals can change is a Christian myth. So what happens to people who can't change?

And studies have shown that children who grow up with a father and a mother in their lives are better off.

Could you supply a reference for one of these studies?

 

[Dogbean]

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Maybe some people can overcome the behaviour, though I cannot imagine why they would want to. I have read several of the 'testimonies' of ex-gays, and they don't look very convincing to me ... they look like the words of people in denial.But there are many more people whose homosexuality is central to their very being, and who cannot simply change their feelings to become heterosexual. This idea is that homosexuals can change is a Christian myth. So what happens to people who can't change?

Philippians 4:13 "I can do everything through him who gives me strength." Everyone who accepts Christ is living in denial in the same way, because sinning is all of our natures. It's no different for homosexuals. It's no different for a thief who accepts Christ and decides to give up a lifetime of crime. The urge to steal is still going to be there, but he has to fight it. He's living in denial the same way a saved homosexual is.

Pleasing God is more important than pleasing self.

 

[darkshadow]

Wow! Finally, an answer to the question I've asked so often. Okay, so if homosexuality is against his plan, why did God create people like me whose only sexual feelings are homosexual?

God did not make anyone homosexual. Now I will tell you why but you will not agree because I am using a belief system you do not agree with. Anyways, the fall of man brought sin into the world not God. Now that being said, being homosexual is not a sin, acting upon those urges is. Satan uses the urges of homosexuality, that he has control over, to become a stumbling block for men and women. Just because someone has homosexual urges does not make them a worse person then anyone else here on earth. God says we have all fallen short, and are all sinners. Only man catagorizes sin to different degrees. - (not quoted)


I'm an atheist. I'm not going to accept 'Because God sez' as a reason. You or he will have to provide convincing arguments.

Then I answer your statement with a question, Why should I give up my belief system because you do not believe in God or my beliefs?

We give you are reasons and you do not accept them which is your prerogative, but we should not change what we believe because you or someone else does not agree anymore then you should. Do I wish you would? Yes, because my God says you are in danger of the fires of Hell. Do you wish I would change? Yes, because you believe, assuming, that I am a nut for my beliefs. I have asked this of you before with no answer, and I ask again, worded different as not to offend. Why come to a place you do not agree with and know those there will not agree with, belief wise God/no-God, and ask a question knowing the answer is going to be from a belief system you do not believe in, and say, "I'm an atheist. I'm not going to accept 'Because God sez' as a reason. You or he will have to provide convincing arguments"?
As a republican I can not go to a democrat party and say, "Why am I wrong, but you can't use your beliefs." I am not trying to start an argument I really want to know in order to understand were your coming from.

 

[Andreusz]

Why does God create people who can't walk? Why does God create people who are mentally retarded, and don't even have the mental capacity to understand salvation? These are just the things that happen, that we can't explain. Perhaps so He could be glorified if you accepted Christ and through the transforming power of His Word and the Holy Spirit, gave up homosexual acts.

If God wants me to live a life of frustration and repression in order to glorify him, then even if I believed in him, I would not want to worship him. I really don't understand why anyone would want to worship the god of the Bible.

I'm a lunitic. I've decided not to accept thousands of years of physics research, and I've decided I don't believe in gravity because it's not logical; we can't see it, we can't explain it. Therefore, I'm going to walk off the top of this building, and I will not fall because I don't believe in the illogical force of gravity.

Please bear in mind this is not meant as an insult or namecalling to Andreusz. It's just meant to be an analogy.

It's a poor analogy. Most atheist are not lunatics. Physical science tries to explain the universe, while according to you, God's laws are not to be explained.

 

[Dogbean]

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If God wants me to live a life of frustration and repression in order to glorify him, then even if I believed in him, I would not want to worship him. I really don't understand why anyone would want to worship the god of the Bible.



It's a poor analogy. Most atheist are not lunatics. Physical science tries to explain the universe, while according to you, God's laws are not to be explained.

That's why I threw that disclaimer in there. The lunatic word is simply for the analogy, not to imply that you personally are a lunatic. And you probably won't understand the motive for worshipping God unless He personally delivers you from the fires of hell. Nobody said the Christian life was easy. But the motive for worship does not come from following rules and denying yourself, but out of humble gratefulness for what He does for those He saves. How would you feel toward the family of a person who died to save you from getting hit and killed by a car? Do you think there'd be any gratitude there? Somebody who didn't have to decided to sacrifice themself to save you from getting killed, and died in the process. Would you not want to do nice things for that person's family for the rest of your life?

And I didn't say God's laws are not to be explained. I just said they don't have to be. God does not owe anybody anything, let alone an explanation for His decisions. Some things are explained, and some are not. That is God's choice.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To EnemyPartyII
We are going round in circles. Since we last corresponded you have made the statement ‘because the Bible sez.’ as though somehow on a thread about what the Bible says, the Bible is not relevant.
You then ask how come God made homosexuals. My question to you is how come He didn’t. He didn’t because he made woman for man for this reason a man shall be united with his wife and the two shall become one flesh… that’s not homosexual that more like heterosexual.
So although you must be thinking God made homosexuals because you feel he must have done, the evidence is God didn’t, and thus your thinking is your own and contrary to God’s.
But even this isn’t the point of the thread, the point of the thread is Biblical evidence for gay sex, all you are doing is offering your own thinking without any evidence.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Andreusz,

If God wants me to live a life of frustration and repression in order to glorify him, then even if I believed in him, I would not want to worship him. I really don't understand why anyone would want to worship the god of the Bible.

Firstly God doesnt want anyone to live a life of frustration and repression, you are giving false testimony about God. Jesus Christ came to give life to the full and it was for freedom that Christ has sets us free. John 10, Galatians 5.
You are free to consider God's view frustration and repression for you, and refuse to worship God, but you are not free to attribute false testimony against God. If you believe God to want such things please show where in God's word God says so.

 

[Andreusz]

To Andreusz,
Firstly God doesnt want anyone to live a life of frustration and repression, you are giving false testimony about God. Jesus Christ came to give life to the full and it was for freedom that Christ has sets us free. John 10, Galatians 5.
You are free to consider God's view frustration and repression for you, and refuse to worship God, but you are not free to attribute false testimony against God. If you believe God to want such things please show where in God's word God says so.

I am merely drawing a conclusion from what other posters, like Tackleberry and several others, have said, namely that if I want to go to heaven, I must not have gay sex. Gay sex is the only kind of sex I have ever wanted to have in the forty or so years since I reached adolescence; so what this amounts to is saying that I must not have sex. I would definitely find this frustrating.
Tackleberry and others who tell me that I should adopt this course of non-action all seem convinced that that is what God wants.

 

[Dogbean]

I am merely drawing a conclusion from what other posters, like Tackleberry and several others, have said, namely that if I want to go to heaven, I must not have gay sex. Gay sex is the only kind of sex I have ever wanted to have in the forty or so years since I reached adolescence; so what this amounts to is saying that I must not have sex. I would definitely find this frustrating.
Tackleberry and others who tell me that I should adopt this course of non-action all seem convinced that that is what God wants.

I'm not saying you have to stop having gay sex to get to heaven. Nothing you do or don't do will get you to heaven. I'm saying that if God saves you, then out of gratitude you should please Him by doing what's in the Word. Salvation is not conditioned on obeying stuff. It's a gift of God, accepted through faith in Christ. Obedience comes later out of gratitude and a transformed life.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Andreusz,

I am merely drawing a conclusion from what other posters, like Tackleberry and several others, have said, namely that if I want to go to heaven, I must not have gay sex.

But I can see Tackleberry hasn’t said that.
I also fully commend Tackleberry’s response.

I would add that Jesus command to obey is to His disciples, disciples have already accepted the salvation Jesus has made available and seek to serve and follow Him.

I would definitely find this frustrating.

I am sure you would but everyone finds prevention of things they want to do frustrating. Nonetheless having accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and born again of the spirit, we no longer seek the former things that are against God, and we are able to resist them or repent if we do fall short occasionally.

Tackleberry and others who tell me that I should adopt this course of non-action all seem convinced that that is what God wants.

There is no doubt that is what God wants because that is what He has told us in His word. The purpose of this thread is to expose that fact .

But I am not sure why you would necessarily want to worship God and follow Jesus Christ's teaching if you didn't believe in Him, so I think I can understand the point you are making

 

[Dogbean]

To Andreusz,
But I can see Tackleberry hasn’t said that.
I also fully commend Tackleberry’s response.

Why thank you!

I would add that Jesus command to obey is to His disciples, disciples have already accepted the salvation Jesus has made available and seek to serve and follow Him.

I am sure you would but everyone finds prevention of things they want to do frustrating. Nonetheless having accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and born again of the spirit, we no longer seek the former things that are against God, and we are able to resist them or repent if we do fall short occasionally.
There is no doubt that is what God wants because that is what He has told us in His word. The purpose of this thread is to expose that fact .

But I am not sure why you would necessarily want to worship God and follow Jesus Christ's teaching if you didn't believe in Him, so I think I can understand the point you are making

Well said! I sometimes don't have a good way with words. I agree with this wholeheartedly.

 

[RMDY]

homosexuality = fornication

Reason:

Gay marriage is no legit. God did not intend for men to become one flesh with other men in a marriage covenent nor did God design our bodies to produce babies nor did God design our bodies to have same-sex sex.

 

[Dogbean]

homosexuality = fornication

Reason:

Gay marriage is no legit. God did not intend for men to become one flesh with other men in a marriage covenent nor did God design our bodies to produce babies nor did God design our bodies to have same-sex sex.

Great post. Short and to the point. Scripturally supported. Get ready though; they're going to tear it apart; most of these people don't respect all of Scripture, unfortunatly.

 

[RMDY]

Great post. Short and to the point. Scripturally supported. Get ready though; they're going to tear it apart; most of these people don't respect all of Scripture, unfortunatly.

I'm prepared.

 

[Andreusz]

I think I've said this before, but actually, on the subject of this thread, I agree with Polycarp_fan. There is no Biblical support for gay sex. There is quite explicit condemnation of it.
Of course, I take this as a reason for rejecting the Bible.

 

[Dogbean]

I think I've said this before, but actually, on the subject of this thread, I agree with Polycarp_fan. There is no Biblical support for gay sex. There is quite explicit condemnation of it.
Of course, I take this as a reason for rejecting the Bible.

So the Bible says something you don't like, so you just reject it? What will you do if you die and find out that the Bible was right, and it's too late to change your mind? Are you willing to take that risk?

 

[Andreusz]

So the Bible says something you don't like, so you just reject it? What will you do if you die and find out that the Bible was right, and it's too late to change your mind? Are you willing to take that risk?

I reject practically everything the Bible says as either fictitious or deeply immoral. Yes, I'm willing to take the chance. I am a deeply convinced atheist.

 

[Dogbean]

I reject practically everything the Bible says as either fictitious or deeply immoral. Yes, I'm willing to take the chance. I am a deeply convinced atheist.

I understand you're deeply committed atheist, but what will you do if you find out we were right? You'd only find out when it's too late, then it's an eternity in hell. Frankly, I don't understand why you'd take the risk. Suppose you decided to accept Christ? What have you got to lose? You'd get to go to heaven forever, be liberated from sin, etc. Yes, you'd give up homosexual practice for your existance on earth, which is fleeting compared to eternity. Is a fleeting stint with homosexual lovers worth burning for eternity?

I'll give the common argument against rejecting the Bible: you can decide you reject gravity just because you don't like it, but that does not change the fact that it's there and that it will make you fall if you jump off a building.

 

[Andreusz]

I understand you're deeply committed atheist, but what will you do if you find out we were right? You'd only find out when it's too late, then it's an eternity in hell. Frankly, I don't understand why you'd take the risk. Suppose you decided to accept Christ? What have you got to lose? You'd get to go to heaven forever, be liberated from sin, etc. Yes, you'd give up homosexual practice for your existance on earth, which is fleeting compared to eternity. Is a fleeting stint with homosexual lovers worth burning for eternity?

I'll give the common argument against rejecting the Bible: you can decide you reject gravity just because you don't like it, but that does not change the fact that it's there and that it will make you fall if you jump off a building.

If I 'accepted Christ', it would be against my convictions. I can't see how a person can expediently choose to believe something they don't believe. I could only pretend to believe, and if God is omniscient, surely he'd know I was pretending? Belief is not a matter of choice.