Should Christians oppose gay civil marriage?

[David Brider]

USA.

Or you could've guessed...

Well, I could have guessed, but I could have guessed wrong. Best to check, IMO.

...but I'm thinking you have a point to make.

No point really, apart from the fact that this is a multi-national board, and I never like to assume anyone's nationality.

It isn't 100% we don't pray in schools any longer...

Isn't it formal, led prayers that aren't allowed in schools in the USA? No doubt someone can inform me of the position, but bottom line is, nobody's stopping any individual from conversing with God any time of day or night.

...but I'm sure someone will be prejudice enough to point out that the national anthem can be considered as a prayer.

Well, I don't know the US national anthem, I'm afraid. The UK anthem could definitely be considered a prayer, IMO (after all, it starts "God save our gracious Queen" - if petitioning God isn't a prayer, I don't know what is...)

It's like asking, what do "you" say when someone sneezes.

Normally "bless you," or "gesundheit," or "mazel tov".

Have you really conditioned yourself so much so against Christianity that you cant sing the national anthem?

I'm not sure what Christianity has to do with the national anthem, frankly. Certainly, I've not conditioned myself against Christianity (on account of how, well, I'm a Christian). I don't sing the national anthem, but that's because I'm not really a big fan of patriotism.

It's not safe to say, God bless you any longer.

Isn't it? I've never experienced any problems saying it.

So there are things that have been made clear that religion shouldn't be involved in.

I'm not really sure how prayer in schools, saying "bless you", or singing the national anthem (of any country) has any connection with Christians bringing their moral values and perspectives to a discussion on lawmaking...

O.K. tell me again why someone is a homosexual.

Honest answer? I don't know. I'm inclined to suspect that it's something genetic, but I don't honestly know. All I know for certain is that some people are, and much like heterosexuality or bisexuality or asexuality, there doesn't seem to be any degree of choice involved in actually being homosexual.

That isn't even the point. It doesn't matter if it cant be helped, what matters is in understanding why it cant be helped.

And it can be explained rationally. People just blind themselves to hate and judgment.
It's not just Christians or heterosexuals who are blinding themselves. It's from both sides and if it didn't happen from both sides we'd have a rational answer by now.

It means no one has even bothered to try and sort it out.
A simple and dishonest answer has been replaced by our inability to understand our emotions. Each and every time another explanation has been given the same thing has happened. Instead of reaching an understanding you're spreading hate. This is how it goes..

Well, I hope I'm personally not spreading hate - that's certainly not something that would ever be my intention.

More than that, I don't really have any answer for you, beyond what I've already given - that we don't really seem to have any say in who we're attracted to, and I'm not convinced of the need for an explanation. Is it genetic? Possibly? Is it something to do with our environment and upbringing? Possibly, but then you'd have to account for how people growing up with similar upbringings in similar environment can turn out so radically different from each other - including, but not limited to, their sexual orientation. Is it a conscious choice? Possibly, but only if everyone who's ever said that they didn't choose who to be attracted to is deliberately lying.

If you learn the same thing long enough it becomes a belief. Like Richard Dawkins. The guy spent his life following a school of thought and is now under the strict impression that he couldn't be wrong.

I think in much the same way you might be like that. You may have come to see the kind of rationality you respect as a belief. To the point where you take the understanding you have learned from school and various other areas of the social enlightenment you call life for granted.
Kind of replacing your ability to question things you once did while you were learning about them.

It's an invisible form of a biased nature, undetectable.

Only the truth of rationality learned here as been replaced by propaganda.

Again, I don't really know what to say to most of this, except that I think you may not be fully understanding where I'm coming from. Actually, I'm really quite a big fan of questioning things. Sometimes, I find the questions don't lead to anything useful, but sometimes it can help to challenge our underlying assumptions about things. As for rational thinking...well, I firmly believe that God has given us brains to think with, to reason things out, to make logical deductions. Jesus said that we're to love God with our whole heart, our whole soul, our whole mind, and our whole strength, and I take from that that it's actually a good thing to think about our faith, to read from the Bible to gain understanding about the nature of God.

There's no rational explanation for heterosexual attraction either. You meet someone, you find you're attracted to that person. If things go well, there's mutual attraction, you fall in love with each other, you end up married, maybe with kids, maybe not. But no, there's no rhyme or reason behind who you're likely to be attracted to. Should there be?

Other then it's how we reproduce.

Well, no - attraction isn't how we reproduce - sexual intercourse is how we reproduce, and that's certainly not the only purpose for sexual intercourse (it's recreational as much as it is procreational, in my understanding). Attraction, as far as I can see, serves no actual purpose in and of itself, so does it actually matter that some people are attracted to people of the same gender as themselves, some to people of the opposite gender to themselves, some to both, and some to neither; and does it actually matter that we can't be 100% sure of the reasons for that attraction?


David.

 

[Inviolable]

Well, I could have guessed, but I could have guessed wrong. Best to check, IMO.

Aren't homosexuals allowed to get married in the UK?

No point really, apart from the fact that this is a multi-national board, and I never like to assume anyone's nationality.

I guess I should have. Underestimating common sense can be dangerous.

Isn't it formal, led prayers that aren't allowed in schools in the USA? No doubt someone can inform me of the position, but bottom line is, nobody's stopping any individual from conversing with God any time of day or night.

There have been children removed from school for praying to themselves at their desk.

Well, I don't know the US national anthem, I'm afraid. The UK anthem could definitely be considered a prayer, IMO (after all, it starts "God save our gracious Queen" - if petitioning God isn't a prayer, I don't know what is...)

It could just be a choice of words used to express the importance of the Queen. Atheist use the word God to express the importance of a lot of things. Doesn't mean they really think God is going to do anything.

Normally "bless you," or "gesundheit," or "mazel tov".

You say, gesundheit or mazel tov?

I'm not sure what Christianity has to do with the national anthem, frankly. Certainly, I've not conditioned myself against Christianity (on account of how, well, I'm a Christian). I don't sing the national anthem, but that's because I'm not really a big fan of patriotism.

But you have conditioned yourself to your beliefs.

Isn't it? I've never experienced any problems saying it.

I've seen bombs go off over the phrase.
Not really but a redundant reply was needed here.

I'm not really sure how prayer in schools, saying "bless you", or singing the national anthem (of any country) has any connection with Christians bringing their moral values and perspectives to a discussion on lawmaking...

It's a good way to express the incentive people have for what they do.

Honest answer? I don't know. I'm inclined to suspect that it's something genetic, but I don't honestly know. All I know for certain is that some people are, and much like heterosexuality or bisexuality or asexuality, there doesn't seem to be any degree of choice involved in actually being homosexual.

And again, not the point. It is a topic that does however confuse the issue.

Well, I hope I'm personally not spreading hate - that's certainly not something that would ever be my intention.

You can do something you don't mean to.

More than that, I don't really have any answer for you, beyond what I've already given - that we don't really seem to have any say in who we're attracted to, and I'm not convinced of the need for an explanation. Is it genetic? Possibly? Is it something to do with our environment and upbringing? Possibly, but then you'd have to account for how people growing up with similar upbringings in similar environment can turn out so radically different from each other - including, but not limited to, their sexual orientation. Is it a conscious choice? Possibly, but only if everyone who's ever said that they didn't choose who to be attracted to is deliberately lying.

You completely miss the point again. I'm pretty sure you wont get it.
This isnt a cop out or me being afraid of your awesome debating skills.
This is me telling you, I don't think our conversations will go any where.

Again, I don't really know what to say to most of this, except that I think you may not be fully understanding where I'm coming from. Actually, I'm really quite a big fan of questioning things. Sometimes, I find the questions don't lead to anything useful, but sometimes it can help to challenge our underlying assumptions about things. As for rational thinking...well, I firmly believe that God has given us brains to think with, to reason things out, to make logical deductions. Jesus said that we're to love God with our whole heart, our whole soul, our whole mind, and our whole strength, and I take from that that it's actually a good thing to think about our faith, to read from the Bible to gain understanding about the nature of God.

Awesome

Well, no - attraction isn't how we reproduce - sexual intercourse is how we reproduce, and that's certainly not the only purpose for sexual intercourse (it's recreational as much as it is procreational, in my understanding). Attraction, as far as I can see, serves no actual purpose in and of itself, so does it actually matter that some people are attracted to people of the same gender as themselves, some to people of the opposite gender to themselves, some to both, and some to neither; and does it actually matter that we can't be 100% sure of the reasons for that attraction?


David.

It does matter. Obviously it does or there wouldn't be such a big hubbub about it.

Good bye

 

[visionary]

Oppose gay civil marriage
- gays are not happy with just a civil marriage
- gays want to invade all aspects of life
- gays want to be acceptable subject for school children to learn it is "normal"

 

[David Brider]

Aren't homosexuals allowed to get married in the UK?

Well, it's called a Civil Partnership. A marriage in all but name.

No point really, apart from the fact that this is a multi-national board, and I never like to assume anyone's nationality.

I guess I should have. Underestimating common sense can be dangerous.

Of course, it makes it easier if people fill in their nationality on their profile, so the little flag icon appears under their name on their posts.

...nobody's stopping any individual from conversing with God any time of day or night.

There have been children removed from school for praying to themselves at their desk.

Were they vocalising their prayers? If so, I can understand why some people might have had an issue with that.

You say, gesundheit or mazel tov?

Yes, sometimes.

But you have conditioned yourself to your beliefs.

Possibly, I'm not sure. But I've not conditioned myself against Christianity, which was what you originally stated.

It's a good way to express the incentive people have for what they do.

Maybe, but it's not the same thing at all as seeking to have ones beliefs and moral values represented in the statute books of the nation in which one lives.

O.K. tell me again why someone is a homosexual.

Honest answer? I don't know. I'm inclined to suspect that it's something genetic, but I don't honestly know. All I know for certain is that some people are, and much like heterosexuality or bisexuality or asexuality, there doesn't seem to be any degree of choice involved in actually being homosexual.

And again, not the point. It is a topic that does however confuse the issue.

I'm terribly sorry - I just answered your question, to the best of my abilities. How is that "not the point"?

Instead of reaching an understanding you're spreading hate. This is how it goes..

Well, I hope I'm personally not spreading hate - that's certainly not something that would ever be my intention.

You can do something you don't mean to.

Are you saying that you think I'm spreading hate? If so, how do you see me doing that?

You completely miss the point again.

Again, I answer your question to the best of my ability, and you accuse me of missing the point. Dare I ask, what exactly is the point?

I'm pretty sure you wont get it.

Try me.

This isnt a cop out or me being afraid of your awesome debating skills.

Flatterer. I bet you say that to all the guys...

This is me telling you, I don't think our conversations will go any where.

Again, try me.

It does matter. Obviously it does or there wouldn't be such a big hubbub about it.

Well yes, I understand that to some people it does matter. I don't understand why. It certainly doesn't matter to me. Some people are gay. Some people are straight. Some people are bisexual. Some people are asexual. It really doesn't bother me, and beyond a sort of kneejerk "oh no, what if they try to touch me up?" reaction, I can't really understand why it bothers some people, who then proceed to express their objection in a very vocal manner. I mean, yes, same-gender attraction, if acted upon sexually, might flout half a dozen verses of the Bible (or it might not, depending on whose interpretation of those verses you believe). But it's not as if it's going to mean the end of the world or anything. And most people who express an objection to it aren't going to be directly impacted by anyone who experiences same-gender attraction. They're not even going to be directly impacted if same-gender couples are allowed to marry. So, no, I can't really understand the hubbub.

I'm open to explanations. Why does it matter to you that some people are attracted to people of the same gender as themselves? Why does it matter to you if same-gender couples are allowed to marry? How are you personally impacted by it?

David.

 

[TeChNoWC]

"Hmmm... so it's okay for atheists to campaign to have Christianity and other religions outlawed?"

Depends on what you mean by ok. By what standard are we judging this by? And in relation to what?

From perspective/subjectivity, it is all based on the opinion of the claimant. From political law, it based on whatever that law ascribes to. By popular opinion/semantic ethics, again, whatever. By the Bible, we would deem it as "What would God want".

Technically, yes, it is ok for atheists to campaign to have Christianity and other religions outlawed. Biblically, well I am sure you know what the answer will be. It is not spiritually beneficial to do so nor would God desire it to be done, so therefore it is a misguided sin, destructive, and evil.

May I also add, you did not ask about 'campaigning' against homosexuality but rather voting against it being viable as an institution. To take it back a step also, Christians, morally, should be opposed to any form of marriage union outside of the church, because God institutes true marriage, not the state alone.
So if banning religion were to become a vote then by all means you would be allowed to vote either way. That is what a vote is. But if you want to know what you 'should' vote for, then it would be more likely to assume that it would be better, as a Christian, to vote 'against' gay marriage (particularly as they probably will force it on the church anyway).

 

[David Brider]

That is what a vote is. But if you want to know what you 'should' vote for, then it would be more likely to assume that it would be better, as a Christian, to vote 'against' gay marriage (particularly as they probably will force it on the church anyway).

This is, I suspect, an unlikely scenario - there are many Christian churches which are more than happy to marry or bless same-gender couples (where doing so is in accordance with the civil law), so I doubt anyone would seriously want to force churches that weren't happy with doing so to carry out such ceremonies.

 

[TeChNoWC]

"Well yes, I understand that to some people it does matter. I don't understand why. It certainly doesn't matter to me. Some people are gay. Some people are straight. Some people are bisexual. Some people are asexual. It really doesn't bother me, and beyond a sort of kneejerk "oh no, what if they try to touch me up?" reaction, I can't really understand why it bothers some people, who then proceed to express their objection in a very vocal manner. I mean, yes, same-gender attraction, if acted upon sexually, might flout half a dozen verses of the Bible (or it might not, depending on whose interpretation of those verses you believe). But it's not as if it's going to mean the end of the world or anything. And most people who express an objection to it aren't going to be directly impacted by anyone who experiences same-gender attraction. They're not even going to be directly impacted if same-gender couples are allowed to marry. So, no, I can't really understand the hubbub.

I'm open to explanations. Why does it matter to you that some people are attracted to people of the same gender as themselves? Why does it matter to you if same-gender couples are allowed to marry? How are you personally impacted by it?"

For conscience sake you should vote according to the precepts of God. Whether or not it bothers you or not is not the issue. It is on your head if you contribute to allowing further sin to enter the world that could cause somebody to go to hell. Whether homosexuality is bad or not, your argument is carelessly destructive; you are being ignorant of the influences that you allow to spread within our world.

In America I guess you can choose to not vote at all. In Aus you HAVE to vote, so its either aye or nay. You could possibly get away with not voting, but I think you should. NOT standing up to sin is just as bad as ignoring it; unless you don't vote because you feel you don't know God's heart on the matter, then that is understandable.

 

[TeChNoWC]

This is, I suspect, an unlikely scenario - there are many Christian churches which are more than happy to marry or bless same-gender couples (where doing so is in accordance with the civil law), so I doubt anyone would seriously want to force churches that weren't happy with doing so to carry out such ceremonies.

I noticed you picked up ONLY on the weakest part of my post yet failed to consider the rest.

While you may be right, there is the risk that it could be become unlawful to discriminate on the grounds of sexuality (much like denying employment in a Christian-based organisation).

 

[Andreusz]

You're emotions toward sexuality can be explained and rationalized.

Okay, but the easiest way to explain them would require that I first ask you: Do you enjoy your sexuality? Do you enjoy looking at beautiful women? Do you enjoy being in the company of a beautiful woman? Do you enjoy sex with your wife? If your answer to these questions is 'yes', then my emotions towards my sexuality can be explained simply by saying they're the same as your emotions towards your sexuality.

I'm saying, sort it out. You don't have to look at it like it's just one thing, As if homosexuality is only homosexuality when emotions are involved.
Being gay isn't just a sexual orientation thing. It's who you are, why are you who you are?

I agree, but now it sounds as if you're arguing on my side, which is odd.

You cant "just" be someone who falls in love with other men? You cant "just" be someone who cant help but be gay...
You're blinding yourself with your own persona if you think thats it.

Of course I am not 'just' my sexuality. By my sexuality is extremely important to me. Among other things, it directs my most intimate relationships, and most importantly, it determines who I love.

You can explain homosexuality. For some reason you're refusing to do so.

What kind of explanation are you looking for? Do you mean you want me to explain what it involves? Or do you want me to explain why it exists?

I think it's because people have been spoon fed whatever they think will free them. People grasp onto the easiest explanation they can get and then blind themselves by it. Turning something mundane into a monumental development of a false truth.

I have trouble grasping the concept of a 'false truth'.

Christians don't intend to spread hate either. It just happens in who you are.

Are you saying that I naturally spread hate?

 

[Inviolable]

then my emotions towards my sexuality can be explained simply by saying they're the same as your emotions towards your sexuality.

Thats the problem, it's to simple. It's exactly what makes you different from me. It's how people notice you and who you are.
In one of your replies to me you said, I'm different in that I'm gay.
Well, whats that mean? That doesn't answer anything.

If it's true that our emotions can be rolled up into the same category then what would you say your feelings are on heterosexual sex?
You said it repulses you. How so? I might be repulsed by gay sex the same way. It's a common ground to start with.

I agree, but now it sounds as if you're arguing on my side, which is odd.

Never actually said I was against you. All I've said so far is, I want to see some kind of understanding. Something I don't think you can produce.

Of course I am not 'just' my sexuality. By my sexuality is extremely important to me. Among other things, it directs my most intimate relationships, and most importantly, it determines who I love.

Thats a start, but it isn't enough and it isn't helping you.
It still only leaves you with the same old reference point. That you're gay.
Nothing more productive other then, you're gay.

What kind of explanation are you looking for? Do you mean you want me to explain what it involves? Or do you want me to explain why it exists?

What it involves I suppose. I gave an example of an explanation when I made a comment about mental illness. If you see a guy at McDonald's talking to a non-existent Richard Nixon. You may want to avoid him.
But why would you be avoiding him? I'm not saying you personally, again, it's just an example.
In general why would someone avoid a person who talks to themselves?
Keep in mind, I'm not saying you're mentally ill. Not even trying to imply it one way or the other.
What I am trying to convey is the kind of understanding you need to represent.
Think about what it would take to make people want to hang out with the guy who talks to himself. Thats the kind of explanation I'm looking for from you on the subject of homosexuality.
Something that helps me to understand it.

I have trouble grasping the concept of a 'false truth'.

The point I was making was more to say, you don't need to try and grasp a false truth in order to believe in one.

Are you saying that I naturally spread hate?

Kind of, but I'm also saying, everyone naturally does. It doesn't matter if we mean to or not. We're defensive of who we are personally.

 

[Caylin]

I noticed you picked up ONLY on the weakest part of my post yet failed to consider the rest.

While you may be right, there is the risk that it could be become unlawful to discriminate on the grounds of sexuality (much like denying employment in a Christian-based organisation).

Yeah, it sure would be a shame if homosexuals weren't allowed to be fired merely for being gay, huh?

 

[BigBadWlf]

Oppose gay civil marriage
- gays are not happy with just a civil marriage
- gays want to invade all aspects of life
- gays want to be acceptable subject for school children to learn it is "normal"

Oppose civil rights
- blacks are not happy with separate but equal
- blacks want to invade all aspects of life
- blacks want to be acceptable subject for school children to learn it is "normal"

 

[BigBadWlf]

May I also add, you did not ask about 'campaigning' against homosexuality but rather voting against it being viable as an institution. To take it back a step also, Christians, morally, should be opposed to any form of marriage union outside of the church, because God institutes true marriage, not the state alone.

So you support discrimination against all non-Christians?

So if banning religion were to become a vote then by all means you would be allowed to vote either way. That is what a vote is. But if you want to know what you 'should' vote for, then it would be more likely to assume that it would be better, as a Christian, to vote 'against' gay marriage (particularly as they probably will force it on the church anyway).

Force what exactly on the church?
If you are going to try to claim somehow that churches will be forced to marry same gendered couples….that bit has been tried as an excuse for discrimination for years. It isn’t true. The churches /priests are under no obligation to marry anyone they don’t wish to. Many churches still refuse to marry interracial couples.

 

[Dogbean]

This is, I suspect, an unlikely scenario - there are many Christian churches which are more than happy to marry or bless same-gender couples (where doing so is in accordance with the civil law), so I doubt anyone would seriously want to force churches that weren't happy with doing so to carry out such ceremonies.

Thumbs up to churches that stick with the preaching and teaching of God's Word!!!

 

[BigBadWlf]

"Well yes, I understand that to some people it does matter. I don't understand why. It certainly doesn't matter to me. Some people are gay. Some people are straight. Some people are bisexual. Some people are asexual. It really doesn't bother me, and beyond a sort of kneejerk "oh no, what if they try to touch me up?" reaction, I can't really understand why it bothers some people, who then proceed to express their objection in a very vocal manner. I mean, yes, same-gender attraction, if acted upon sexually, might flout half a dozen verses of the Bible (or it might not, depending on whose interpretation of those verses you believe). But it's not as if it's going to mean the end of the world or anything. And most people who express an objection to it aren't going to be directly impacted by anyone who experiences same-gender attraction. They're not even going to be directly impacted if same-gender couples are allowed to marry. So, no, I can't really understand the hubbub.

I'm open to explanations. Why does it matter to you that some people are attracted to people of the same gender as themselves? Why does it matter to you if same-gender couples are allowed to marry? How are you personally impacted by it?"

In the same way civil rights matters
In the same way woman’s suffrage matters
In the same way segregation matters
In the same way internment camps matter
In the same way lynchings matter


I am personally impacted by all these and a host of other things.


To stand by and allow one group to be denied equality is to cave into bigotry and hatred. Worse is to support such things or pretend that discrimination is somehow acceptable if one claims one’s religion makes it OK.

To deny equality to one minority is an act of hate, it is also the first step to fascism

For conscience sake you should vote according to the precepts of God. Whether or not it bothers you or not is not the issue. It is on your head if you contribute to allowing further sin to enter the world that could cause somebody to go to hell. Whether homosexuality is bad or not, your argument is carelessly destructive; you are being ignorant of the influences that you allow to spread within our world.

And that is why I support civil rights and anti-lynching laws and it is why I support equality for our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. Because to do otherwise is to justify the sins of hatred and bigotry and to let them spread

In America I guess you can choose to not vote at all. In Aus you HAVE to vote, so its either aye or nay. You could possibly get away with not voting, but I think you should. NOT standing up to sin is just as bad as ignoring it; unless you don't vote because you feel you don't know God's heart on the matter, then that is understandable.

And that is why so many people stand up to the sin of hatered

 

[Dogbean]

DO tell us more about how it "personally impacts" you.

 

[BigBadWlf]

Thumbs up to churches that stick with the preaching and teaching of God's Word!!!

Well obviously you don’t want ALL of God’s word preached.

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. John 13:34
This verse is definitely out…how can one justify prejudice while preaching that?

You shall love your neighbor as yourself Galatians 5:14
Not that one either…prejudice doesn’t fit at all here

Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways. Proverbs 3:31…defiantly don’t want that one preached. Can’t justify discrimination with something like this verse.

Also John 3:16 would be on the list to avoid. Someone might get the impression that this verse includes gays and lesbians

Acts 10:34 is out. Can’t justify prejudice when God is saying he doesn’t abide favoritism

Can’t preach James 2:4 at all

 

[BigBadWlf]

DO tell us more about how it "personally impacts" you.

Hate is hate no matter who it is directed against and it is always wrong. Justifying discrimination against one minority serves only to diminish us all.
.

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the sick, the so-called incurables, and I didn't speak up,
because I wasn't mentally ill.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Gypsies
and I didn't speak up because I was white
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant
Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
attributed to Martin Niemoller

 

[Dogbean]

bbw,

Choosing not to endorse sin is not favoritism, racism, oppression, discrimination, etc.

The verses you quoted should be preached, but so should Genesis 2, Romans 1, 1 Corinthians 6:9

Is locking up criminals infringing on their rights? Are we oppressing lawbreakers by taking away their freedom?

You think that standing against gay marriage is motivated by hate, but it is not. Some people do take it too far and get violent and angry and stuff but they are in the wrong for doing that. Simply opposing gay marriage is not motivated by hate, but I don't know why I'm wasting my breath here because you don't believe me.

BBW, by your logic you might as well call God an oppressor because His Word is God-breathed. We are not to pick and chose. You sound like you have a lot of anger and hatred in you. I am once again asking you to enlighten us with what happened in your life to tell us where you are coming from.

 

[TeChNoWC]

Reply to BigBadWlf:

So you have proven my point. The poster to whom I was debating with argued that 'so what'. Yet it isn't so what. It is very important. Whichever way is holy or right should be upheld, and sort out, and it is our duty to care for the sake of righteousness, in our duty to the gospel and the newness we have received in Christ Jesus.

So one cannot argue as to, with established that some Christians do not agree with homosexuality due to Biblical evidence, 'why vote against when it doesn't harm you'. We have both agreed whether for or against homosexuality, this stance is not very productive unless one is unsure as to which they should vote for.

Hence, I would have to vote against. Not because of the sin of 'hate' (forgive me Lord if I do); maybe due to ignorance, but as I see it and hope that be my motivations, whether my vote is good or not, I am motivated by a desire for righteousness and holiness.

The most important thing is that people aren't dissuaged from inheriting salvation - this is the ultimate travesty, and one NOT to be taken lightly; even if it does 'seem' that we should be fighting for homosexual freedoms. Sorry, but I will do that when I am sure it will not have tragic reprecussions on the destiny of people's souls.