How Homophobic Are You?

[Hentenza]

I'm happy to disagree with someone polite and respectful. Can I ask you to support your point though? Do you no of anyone who didn't have a problem with homosexuality who decided it was sinful after reading the Bible, without direct intervention or indoctrination by someone who already holds that view?

Yes, me.

 

[da_infam0uz_nene]

The score I recieved was 15. I absolutely have no problem with gay people but I do have a belief which is that God created ONE woman and ONE man. But I know it may be hard for gay people giving up their sexual desires because I was one of them before.

But Im thankful for God for helping me out and removed all my sexual desires for same-sex people.

 

[EvangelicalChristian]

Accepted

I'm happy to disagree with someone polite and respectful. Can I ask you to support your point though? Do you no of anyone who didn't have a problem with homosexuality who decided it was sinful after reading the Bible, without direct intervention or indoctrination by someone who already holds that view?

Certainly; Me. I was certainly "left leaning" in my youth, and my liberality was supported and encouraged by my family. I am old enough to have marched in ERA rallies and was gifted with an ACLU supporter membership for my 13th birthday. I would point out that we also were not a Christian family. Well that's not entirely true, we went to my Uncles Presbyterian Church a few Easters and Christmas' I can point to a few others with whom I am acquainted. Who would make similar statements. I can't directly speak for their backgrounds though.

 

[kiwimac]

My new friend,
Do you have ECF references?

EC, In suggesting a little historical research I was not necessarily suggesting the ECF. However allow me to suggest some reading which might provide some thoughtful pauses for you, and others, wrt Homosexual marriages.

Smith-Rosenberg, The Female World of love and Ritual: Relations Between Women in Nineteenth-Century America, I SIGNS I, 9, 27 (1975)

As well I recommend the following books;

Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality: Gay People in Western Europe from the Beginning of the Christian Era to the Fourteenth Century
by John Boswell, University of Chicago Press, 1981, ISBN 0226067114

Same-Sex Unions in Premodern Europe. By John Boswell. New York: Vintage Press, 1995, ISBN 0679751645.

A review of which makes the following observations:

in this long-awaited study, Boswell reveals the existence of dozens of ceremonies dating back to the early years of Christianity solemnizing
"permanent romantic commitment" between members of the same sex (mostly men) that were "witnessed and recognized by the community."

Examples of the ceremony survive in archives around Europe and the Near East, from Paris to the island of Patmos to the monastery of St. Catherine on Mount Sinai (delightfully, the Apostolic Library at the Vatican owns twelve of the manuscripts Boswell has uncovered). The rituals appear in many collections alongside heterosexual marriage ceremonies, and the two forms of union are similar enough to suggest "substantial mutual influence or parallel development" throughout the late classical and medieval periods.

Quote Source

 

[Hentenza]

EC, In suggesting a little historical research I was not necessarily suggesting the ECF. However allow me to suggest some reading which might provide some thoughtful pauses for you, and others, wrt Homosexual marriages.

Smith-Rosenberg, The Female World of love and Ritual: Relations Between Women in Nineteenth-Century America, I SIGNS I, 9, 27 (1975)

As well I recommend the following books;

Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality: Gay People in Western Europe from the Beginning of the Christian Era to the Fourteenth Century
by John Boswell, University of Chicago Press, 1981, ISBN 0226067114

Same-Sex Unions in Premodern Europe. By John Boswell. New York: Vintage Press, 1995, ISBN 0679751645.

A review of which makes the following observations:

Quote Source

Of which non of the sources that you cite pretend to be biblical.

 

[kiwimac]

I did not say biblical sources Hentenza, however, the historical studies by Boswell draw on some material from the earliest Christian, as well as early medieval, times. Most folk in railing against homosexuality are guilty of eisegesis. They are reading back into the passages modern interpretations which simply are not there; which is why I say that the Bible says very little about homosexuality and an awful lot about cultic sexual practices and man-boy pederasty.

 

[BigBadWlf]

OK that was a disgusting waste of time. Could you show me please where the hate originates from behavior and not a perceived inferiority? stereotypes.

As noted racists have issues with the behavior blacks engage in when the ‘behave’ as if they were social equal to whites not specifically the color of anyone’s skin. Racists don’t mind blacks who act in their “biblically defined roles”

It's not my intention to argue but the argument I was disagree with was one that equates behavior with race. Again behavior is a choice, race isn't. Now if you want to argue that the behavior isn't sinful, then that may be a good starting point, but the two (behavior) and race simply are not the same.

Sexual orientation is not “behavior”
It is interesting to note that even the most rabid homophobes here would be content if gays and lesbians pretended to be heterosexual (thus a behavior) which is the cornerstone of ex-gay ministries. Of course pretending to be heterosexual doesn’t make one heterosexual.

Additionally this would only be on point if those who believed homosexual sex to be a sin actually hated homosexuals, or discriminated against them because they are homosexuals. I can state for a fact that I am at least one that does not. My opinions on homosexual sex are based upon my understanding of Scripture.

And racists happily state that their beliefs are based on the bible just like yours are.
You seem to think your position is morally superior to theirs. Can you explain why?

You may or may not agree with me or my interpretation of Scripture but I defy you to prove that I hate homosexuals.

Does that mean racists “hate” blacks…or just the way blacks choose to behave?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Certainly; Me. I was certainly "left leaning" in my youth, and my liberality was supported and encouraged by my family. I am old enough to have marched in ERA rallies and was gifted with an ACLU supporter membership for my 13th birthday. I would point out that we also were not a Christian family. Well that's not entirely true, we went to my Uncles Presbyterian Church a few Easters and Christmas' I can point to a few others with whom I am acquainted. Who would make similar statements. I can't directly speak for their backgrounds though.

Guess we'll just have to disagree over our individual biblical interpretations. I just don't see how consentual, monogomous homosexual relationships are condemned under Christ's new covenant. If you do, well, thats your prerogative, but it doesn't sound like your being particularly condemnatory of others, so I can respect your opinion, even without agreeing with it

 

[David Brider]

I'm happy to disagree with someone polite and respectful. Can I ask you to support your point though? Do you no of anyone who didn't have a problem with homosexuality who decided it was sinful after reading the Bible, without direct intervention or indoctrination by someone who already holds that view?

Actually, in fairness, me. Before I became a Christian, I was very pro-gay rights, equal age of consent, etc, but afterwards I distanced myself from all of that thinking that it would be effectively supporting sin. Even when I loosened up, so to speak, I tended to take the line that while being homosexual was OK, engaging in homosexual sex wasn't. It's only fairly recently that I've studied the Bible thoroughly on the matter and realised that actually, it's not as anti-gay-sex as I'd assumed.

David.

 

[KCKID]

Accepted

I'm happy to disagree with someone polite and respectful. Can I ask you to support your point though? Do you know of anyone who didn't have a problem with homosexuality who decided it was sinful after reading the Bible, without direct intervention or indoctrination by someone who already holds that view?

Certainly; Me. I was certainly "left leaning" in my youth, and my liberality was supported and encouraged by my family. I am old enough to have marched in ERA rallies and was gifted with an ACLU supporter membership for my 13th birthday. I would point out that we also were not a Christian family. Well that's not entirely true, we went to my Uncles Presbyterian Church a few Easters and Christmas' I can point to a few others with whom I am acquainted. Who would make similar statements. I can't directly speak for their backgrounds though.

I second EnemyParty11's comment as to your posts being polite and respectful.

I would say that you're a rare exception in regard to your not holding negative views on homosexuality prior to your reading of the Bible. Actually, I'm a tad cynical of many professed Christians in regard to all manner of their 'beliefs' ...especially in regard to this issue. If the truth be known the majority of Christians would have no idea where to locate the scriptures that supposedly speak of homosexuality. Most have only heard over and over and over again that the Bible condemns homosexuality until it's become a part of their thinking. This impression has been implanted into their minds over a lengthy period of time and it's doubtful that many would have arrived at that point by virtue of their own research.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Why not? We believe there is.



Well, I could ask you to prove that God exists, but this is not the appropriate forum. (In other words, what you call truth, I call fantasy.) In the meantime, if you are trying to convince people of the correctness of your position, it would help to be polite to them.

Polite? LOL!

I was pointing out that my lover and I are mature human beings, not little kids as you claim.
What exactly is immoral about my lifestyle? Why does your God find it immoral? There seems to be no rational basis for his dislike of it, as it in no way harms anyone else.
I would say your lifestyle is far more immoral than mine, as you want to interfere in the lives of other people who are doing you no harm whatsoever, and to deny them rights that would not inconvenience you in the slightest.

God says it is an abomination. Therefore, guess what? It is! It's not rocket science. Immorality is not something that is perceived individually. God tells us plainly what it is. What we are discussing here is the sinfulness of homosexuality. those who follw closely after God and have a relationship with Jesus Christ will be sensitive to that fact. Others aren't because they live in disobedience. Those whose consciences are seared by sin--well---they are rejecting God's word out of hand and they will pay for their own sin, because they make a mockery of Jesus' atonement.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Same-sex marriages have been around for generations and were celebrated in the early church. Perhaps a little historical reading would help here?

Not they weren't celebrated in any Church of Jesus Christ. If you have found something that says so, it is either a lie, a misconstrual, or it was an aberrent church group.

It is a terrible sin and to argue that it is not is simply a delusion.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Do you no of anyone who didn't have a problem with homosexuality who decided it was sinful after reading the Bible, without direct intervention or indoctrination by someone who already holds that view?

Ummm....moi.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I did not say biblical sources Hentenza, however, the historical studies by Boswell draw on some material from the earliest Christian, as well as early medieval, times. Most folk in railing against homosexuality are guilty of eisegesis. They are reading back into the passages modern interpretations which simply are not there; which is why I say that the Bible says very little about homosexuality and an awful lot about cultic sexual practices and man-boy pederasty.

LOL!

 

[EnemyPartyII]

How wonderful we have a world authority on the early church's stance on homosexuality to identify genuine sources for us!

 

[EnemyPartyII]

To Evangelical Christian, Hentenza, and David Brider, thanks for your imput... however, I got to say that I agree with this

I would say that you're a rare exception in regard to your not holding negative views on homosexuality prior to your reading of the Bible. Actually, I'm a tad cynical of many professed Christians in regard to all manner of their 'beliefs' ...especially in regard to this issue. If the truth be known the majority of Christians would have no idea where to locate the scriptures that supposedly speak of homosexuality. Most have only heard over and over and over again that the Bible condemns homosexuality until it's become a part of their thinking. This impression has been implanted into their minds over a lengthy period of time and it's doubtful that many would have arrived at that point by virtue of their own research.

I still suspect you are the exception rather than the rule

 

[kiwimac]

How wonderful we have a world authority on the early church's stance on homosexuality to identify genuine sources for us!

????

 

[Floatingaxe]

????

Haha! "I see!" said the blind man! Thank you, kiwimac for quoting there!

The Word of God has the authority over aberrant former apostates of the early church! LOL!

God makes it clear. Hankering after old, dead perverts doesn't lend power to the argument for homosexual marriage. It diminishes it.

 

[kiwimac]

What on earth are you talking about Floating Axe? Why would they be 'aberrant former apostates'? Because they disagree with you? Arrogant much and what on earth do you mean by old, dead perverts?

 

[Floatingaxe]

What on earth are you talking about Floating Axe? Why would they be 'aberrant former apostates'? Because they disagree with you? Arrogant much and what on earth do you mean by old, dead perverts?

Disagreement with me? Goodness no. Disagreement with the Most High God is a biggie in the Word of God, remember?

Old dead perverts refer to the early church individuals referred to by another poster who somehow found a way to marry as homosexuals. They couldn't have been upstanding members of the Chruch of Jesus Christ, because they would have been subversive to the Church and would have been cast out of the Church. Jesus admonishes us to maintain the unity we have in Him, so the Church would have had to follow the Word of God and confront the sin there.