Garden of Eden

[edrogati]

I agree it has nothing to do with science. So why did you bring up archaeology and genetics?

I brought them up as problems that I saw with the account from the scientific perspective. However, the original post was not a scientific question. Being that this is a forum in which a lot of people take up scientific issues with non-scientific posts, I thought it appropriate.

 

[Assyrian]

Same as Mary's son: a Star of David. Your (as usual, nonexistent) point?

(Not that you'll see this, but it was just too tempting.)

Drat! I wanted to say Star of David

It raises a question though, if John the Baptist belonged to the Baptist denomination, has Baptist doctrine changed since the days when the disciples of John said "We have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." Acts 19:2. Then again maybe not.

 

[AV1611VET]

Drat! I wanted to say Star of David

It raises a question though, if John the Baptist belonged to the Baptist denomination, has Baptist doctrine changed since the days when the disciples of John said "We have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." Acts 19:2. Then again maybe not.

John was killed in prison while Jesus was still on the earth; before the descent of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost, which came ten days after Jesus' ascension.

 

[Assyrian]

So you are saying Baptist doctrine has changed.

I don't suppose John the Baptist was Calvinist or AV-only either.

 

[AV1611VET]

So you are saying Baptist doctrine has changed.

In a way, yes. Remember that John was the last of the Old Testament prophets; and that he wouldn't have taught our two ordinances: [New Testament] Baptism and the Lord's Table.

I don't suppose John the Baptist was Calvinist or AV-only either.

If he was alive today, I'm sure he would be an Independent Fundamental Baptist ---

Remember --- the quality goes in before the name goes on!

 

[RobertByers]

Eden is clearly situated in the genesis account. However the biblical flood changed the world geography and so eden is gone. In fact the first readers of the bible would of understood that the directions implied a great landscape change as there is not a river with four heads and land there upon.
The whole world was paradise but a special place was made for man called the garden.
I'm not sure if eden means the whole planet or just a section with the east part having the garden. Anyways it is gone from modern geography.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Eden is clearly situated in the genesis account. However the biblical flood changed the world geography and so eden is gone. In fact the first readers of the bible would of understood that the directions implied a great landscape change as there is not a river with four heads and land there upon.
The whole world was paradise but a special place was made for man called the garden.
I'm not sure if eden means the whole planet or just a section with the east part having the garden. Anyways it is gone from modern geography.

I see you are still posting magical mystical fairytales; there was no biblical flood, there is not a single piece of evidence for a biblical flood. The first readers of the bible were Bronze Aged men and they understood nothing of geology and geological time. As for the world being paradise, you are again talking through you ar$e, according to you, the garden of eden was around during the Precambrian, not a particularly pleasant time, especially for terrestrial creatures as there were no land plants during the Precambrian, we had to wait until the Devonian before land plants were widespread. This is another interesting point, according to creationists the Devonian was formed during the biblical flood so how do creationists explain the Devonian flora and fauna.

But I think that’s another thread (i.e. Devonian geology and biology)

 

[AV1611VET]

But I think that’s another thread (i.e. Devonian geology and biology)

Is this an example of Devonian biology?

 

[Herman Hedning]

Is this an example of Devonian biology?

Umm, no it isn't. Your Google-fu is weak today, AV. You searched for Devo, not Devonian. That counts as FAIL! - even though the image is a little funny.

 

[edrogati]

Eden is clearly situated in the genesis account. However the biblical flood changed the world geography and so eden is gone. In fact the first readers of the bible would of understood that the directions implied a great landscape change as there is not a river with four heads and land there upon.
The whole world was paradise but a special place was made for man called the garden.
I'm not sure if eden means the whole planet or just a section with the east part having the garden. Anyways it is gone from modern geography.

So why reference Eden with the names of rivers that still exist? If the geography of the entire world was changed, the two rivers whose names we recognize shouldn't remain at all. In my opinion, the Tigris and Euphrates were referenced because they existed before and after the flood and because people would recognize the geography.

 

[AV1611VET]

Umm, no it isn't. Your Google-fu is weak today, AV. You searched for Devo, not Devonian. That counts as FAIL! - even though the image is a little funny.

How about this then --- is this an example of Devonian biology?

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm not sure if eden means the whole planet or just a section with the east part having the garden. Anyways it is gone from modern geography.

Robert, that's a good point you're making.

Are you suggesting that what we call Pangaea is called "Eden" in the Bible?

(I like it!)

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Is this an example of Devonian biology?

I seen Devo live many times in my younger day, but i would have to be 400 million years old to have see the Devonian.

 

[AV1611VET]

I seen Devo live many times in my younger day, but i would have to be 400 million years old to have see the Devonian.

Devo was out of the question for me --- my claim to fame is beating Bobby Fischer once, but losing to Joel Benjamin.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Devo was out of the question for me --- my claim to fame is beating Bobby Fischer once, but losing to Joel Benjamin.

Quite impressive if true, but perhaps Bobbies mind was on other things?

 

[AV1611VET]

Quite impressive if true, but perhaps Bobbies mind was on other things?

LOL --- I thought someone was gonna come on here and mention that he is dead.

 

[Herman Hedning]

LOL --- I thought someone was gonna come on here and mention that he is dead.

Well, you did say once so we surmised he might have been alive at the time. But what did you beat him in? Was it in thread derailing perhaps?

 

[RobertByers]

So why reference Eden with the names of rivers that still exist? If the geography of the entire world was changed, the two rivers whose names we recognize shouldn't remain at all. In my opinion, the Tigris and Euphrates were referenced because they existed before and after the flood and because people would recognize the geography.

Fair enough of coarse.
Yet the genesis map is not the way it is today or was when the bible was introduced to the Hebrews.
Their is no river with four heads and land thereof. So the bible is saying and its first audience would understand the land was different before the flood.
The names are post flood names used to indicate what remains of these rivers. So being special they did survive the flood in basic ways.
In fact one river they have csurrounding ethiopia . Impossible today.
The rivers here are either actual remnants of a different world or you can for the first time say the bible made a mistake on geography.
It didn't.

 

[RobertByers]

I see you are still posting magical mystical fairytales; there was no biblical flood, there is not a single piece of evidence for a biblical flood. The first readers of the bible were Bronze Aged men and they understood nothing of geology and geological time. As for the world being paradise, you are again talking through you ar$e, according to you, the garden of eden was around during the Precambrian, not a particularly pleasant time, especially for terrestrial creatures as there were no land plants during the Precambrian, we had to wait until the Devonian before land plants were widespread. This is another interesting point, according to creationists the Devonian was formed during the biblical flood so how do creationists explain the Devonian flora and fauna.

But I think that’s another thread (i.e. Devonian geology and biology)

HUH???
These are not actual things in the real world. Inventions of incompetent geology. There was no death before the fall. After thee was.
After all the conversation here how could throw at me plants came in this age and so on.
These ages from rock formation/fossils are in fact just from the flood year fossilization. Different areas with different fossils.
No fossilization before the flood. most fossilization during the flood year.
its difficult and not happening today to fossilize.

 

[CACTUSJACKmankin]

HUH???
These are not actual things in the real world. Inventions of incompetent geology. There was no death before the fall. After thee was.
After all the conversation here how could throw at me plants came in this age and so on.
These ages from rock formation/fossils are in fact just from the flood year fossilization. Different areas with different fossils.
No fossilization before the flood. most fossilization during the flood year.
its difficult and not happening today to fossilize.

I love this, there was no death before the fall stuff. How did anything survive prior to the fall? was energy consumption optional pre-fall? Then we get into why everything was vegetarian which not only means plants dont count as alive but that velociraptors used those claws for?????? gardening???