Spinning Wheels

[Senachwine]

Jester- congratulations

 

[Jester4kicks]

Jester-please forgive me for poking fun. If you are intune with what has been going-on in America, weatherwise, you must know of the devastating windstorms that have swept across the midwest. Though I have, personally, been unscathed, the greater area in which I live has been devastated. And it has grabbed my attention, which is my excuse for not responding sooner.
Critic/Skeptic, are much the same. Those of antiquity used the Critic label, and of antiquity was the term within I spoke. The greatest revelation in all of the known Ages could be there for you, Jester, and all, for just the taking, and you choose to only seek fault, or to discredit. This is why I have invoked reference to the Sanhedin and Romans in previous posts. And that is why the Header of this thread is "Spinning Wheels", which directly refers to this revelationless conversation which has been going-on for Ages in regards to the Creation. Your doors appear to be closed in regards to any possible revelation, and I do pity you for that. Still, because you are active in this niche of this forum, I do believe you seek, and yet you appear to only seek the negative vein. I ask you to seek objectivity, in it's purest of forms. If you can find such, and remember what I had posted for just shy of 25 days, then perhaps you will regard my postings in a different light. Or, perhaps not. I can only offer what I have born Witness to as fact. I gave y'all a first-hand account of the actual event, which meshes with Scientific possiblity and common sense logic, and what was/is fact cannot be accepted by you. This is your problem, Jester- not mine.

Your tall-tale does not "mesh" with scientific possibility, nor does it have ANY bearing in common-sense or logic.

Oh... and the definitions of "critic" and "skeptic" are completely different... always have been. "Critic" comes from the latin word "criticus", meaning "to judge".

The root of the word "skeptic" comes from the name of the students who studied philosophy under Pyrrho. To put it best:

"Skeptic does not mean him who doubts, but him who investigates or researches as opposed to him who asserts and thinks that he has found." [Miguel de Unamuno, "Essays and Soliloquies," 1924]​

Let us be the ones who clarify all for everyone:

Serious questions? 1)Do you believe in the Big Bang Theory with it's fabled Particle with infinite density; from which, therefore, sprang all that is our Universe, including life forms which have the ability of intelligent thought?

Yup... although the particle wasn't a particle, it wasn't fabled, and intelligent life (on Earth) did not spring from it (unless you're willing to accept the vicarious association). I'd explain why these terms are important... but you and actual definitions seem to have problems... so I'll just suggest getting a dictionary and figuring it out.

2)Do you believe in the Biblical Genesis Account of the Creation, which is little more than a vague and simplystic Children's story?

Nope.

3)Or do you believe Science has most of it right, but the fabled Particle renders the Big Bang as bogus, and that if a more realistic casting-out of the fiery Matter that has become our cosmological Universe could be discovered, then it would be more realistic/believable? And, just maybe, the Truth?

I think the Big Bang Theory is on the right track, and scientists will continue to develop it and see if it continues to hold true or if it needs to be reworked. I'm not sure why you think the "fabled particle" somehow negates the Big Bang Theory.

4)Do you believe in a God, or Gods/Creator or Creators, and that only they could have created you and I, who have the ability of intelligent thought? Or, is that ability the product of a huge explosion of fiery Matter some 13-billion years ago?

You seemed to have made the distinction that a person either must believe in god, or must believe in the Big Bang Theory... as if one could not believe in both... why?

5)Could fiery Matter evolve into life forms capable of intelligent thought?

I doubt it... but since I am unable to verify the organic nature of all "fiery matter" in the universe... I cannot say for sure. However, I hope you realize that the Theory of Evolution has nothing to do with life coming from non-life... and that current theories within the field of Abiogenesis have nothing to do with life coming from "fiery matter".

6)Do you believe a meshing of a revised Big Bang Theory with the formation of life forms by the hand of a God, or Gods, is possibly the final solultion to the Creation mystery?

Nope. I believe the final solution will be a scientific one... and since there is no actual evidence for the existence of god, scientists will never be able to rely on that notion when forming a theory.

7)Do you believe you have a Soul, which will survive the death of your body?

Hmmm... interesting question... although without getting into a long discussion regarding the nature of the "soul", any answer I can give is meaningless... but I'll say "Yes".

8)Do you believe Theistic Evolution can only be the Truth, or must the Truth be only the Big Bang Theory, or the Genesis Account?

The Theory of Evolution has nothing to do with the Big Bang Theory... furthermore, scientists do not settle for ideas because they "can or must be the only truth", they are constantly looking for new or different answers. Answers which confirm their existing theories, or prove them wrong and lead to further development.

(If your answer to question #7 is in the affirmative, then I know what your answers are to the other questions, Jester- even if you don't).

As I stated in that answer, no response would really tell you anything without a thorough discussion of the nature of the "soul"... but I'm glad you think an answer to an ambigious question would somehow give you insight into my opinions on the other matters.

 

[juvenissun]

7)Do you believe you have a Soul, which will survive the death of your body?

It seems that you could elaborate more on this one. Would you?

What is your experience which made you believe that you have a soul? Soul?

 

[Senachwine]

Jester- I finally figured it out, thanks to actual life experiences over 53 years: you are a Doctor, and an Astrological Theorist, and Bioligist and Theologian extraordinare. Yes, only you are worthy of congratulations

You truly do make this forum a waste of time. By your many responses in many threads- unhappiness does not like company. You are hot air.

(The cogratulations are for convincing me to never even visit this forum again)

 

[Jester4kicks]

I'm almost starting to look forward to these...

Jester- sorry, but I've been away a few days.
What does Science have to offer? The Big Bang, and Evolution. Fact. I am not aware of an official declaration by any active society of Science which acknowledges a God, or Gods. The fact that the Bang and Evolution are all that Science have to offer is what ties them. That is their (incomplete) Unified Creation Field Theory. That is what ties the Big Bang and Evolution. Lay it all on the table, Science- explain how we humans on this Earth came into being from the moments of the Universe's Creation.

O...k... so science is bad because it doesn't rely on fairytales, pixie dust, and unicorns?

As for the idea that the Big Bang and Evolution are the only two things that science has to offer... you seem to have a VERY limited understanding. If the Big Bang Theory is step 1... the Theory of Evolution would be closer to step 7 or 8 when looking at the chronology of scientific fields leading toward the development of homo sapiens.

And WHAT I BORE WITNESS TO

,

Small point: you didn't "bear witness" to anything... but please, carry on...

Jester, meshes perfectly with what is known and acknowledged by Science.

Umm... no... but thanks for trying. The Big Bang Theory says nothing about "fiery matter" being "cast out" into space and then somehow forming everything into existence.

All I offer is the replacement of a singular Big Bang with a particle of infinite density- WHICH IF REALLY WOULD LIKE YOU TO DEFINITIVELY -EXPLAIN TO ME ALL THE WAY TO THE QUARK LEVEL-

Simple.

From Dictionary.com:
par·ti·cle
–noun 1.a minute portion, piece, fragment, or amount; a tiny or very small bit: a particle of dust; not a particle of supporting evidence. 2.Physics. a.one of the extremely small constituents of matter, as an atom or nucleus. b.an elementary particle, quark, or gluon. c.a body in which the internal motion is negligible.

However, if you would like to find me a single reliable source that says the Big Bang originated from a single particle... I will be more than happy to retract my statement.

with a prolonged Bang-type event which may have lasted hours, as we measure time.

Actually, since time is relative, and since it is dependant on space... the scale of time at the moment of the Big Bang would have seemed to be the same as if it happened today.

Isn't science fun?!

For more information about the Big Bang Theory and the timeline associated with it, check here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang_timeline

With what is now known, how can anyone regard the Genesis Account as anything more than a children's story? Really.

I'm sorry... but this is coming from the guy that hit his head and now thinks he was witness to the moment of creation? Sorry... but you're gonna have to give me a moment to appreciate the irony here...









...ok, moment is over.

As for the Soul comment by you- yes it does, Jester. And I only state this for your benefit. I would like nothing better than to get into an extreme discussion with you on the existence of Souls. However, as of now, I can find no purpose to that with you.

I see... so this amazing insight that you were going to get from my answer to an ambiguous question... this insight cannot be discussed because you don't see a reason to explain yourself or describe your reasoning...

ok... that makes sense.

And, NO- I do not make a distinction between one must believing in either the Big Bang, or Creationism. NO. I would have thought that obvious to you. I believe Theistic Evolution to be on the right track, with a modification of the actual Big Bang. I know the Genesis Account is not how it began; and, I believe that for what I know of the Evolutionism, that they have it right- THOUGH, FOR THE LIFE OF ME, I CANNOT FIND AN EXPLANATION BY SAID EVOLUTIONISTS ON HOW THE VERY FIRST SEEDS WERE PLANTED TO ALL LIFE FORMS, INCLUDING THE INTELLIGENT BEINGS SUCH AS YOU AND I. *************AND THIS IS THE KEY- BECAUSE I BELIEVE A GOD, OR GODS, PLANTED THOSE SEEDS ON THE EARTH, AND ON NUMEROUS OTHER CELESTIAL BODIES THROUGHOUT THE UNIVERSE.

Wow... you gettin a little worked-up there sparky?

Let me get this straight... you like the Theory of Evolution, and you're only problem is that you haven't seen what science has to say about how life started?

Well, it's your lucky day. May I introduce you to the field of Abiogenesis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

Jester, all I'm saying is that the Evolutionists are mostly right, and the Creationists are partly right; but, that neither is correct, as they theorize.

Quick point: Scientists theorize, creationists postulate.

What I know of Souls is a seperate issue to the "Spinning Wheels." What I know of Souls does mesh with the belief in metempsychosis, as it also did with Edgar C., but I don't feel it right to expound upon such in this forum's location. I believe in God, or Gods/Creator, or Creators, and that each intelligent Being has a Soul which cannot die. Therefore, I am not aligned with Christian dogma, or any other dogma. All I know, Jester, and all who read this, is what I HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO REMEMBER, compliments of a serious car accident on the morning of 11/2/68.

That's ok... lots of other people like to make up their own realities too.

Oh, Jester, and by the way, my writings, compliments of Notebood Folders, is well on it's way.

Juvenissun- the car accident on the forementioned date allowed me to connect with the greater part of my Soul, as well as meet with "the old man," who some would call my Guardian Angel. I do not think of the old man as such. We conversed, looking down on the accident site from some 75' above the ground. The last thing he told me was, "You will remember." It took me some time, with all that was going on in my post-accident physical reality, to fully comprehend what his words meant, but I do. I have memories of more than just this life, Juvenissun.
I have taken much dimwitted ridicule from some in this forum, and I hope you are not of those. If you seek, then I hope you will respond in kind. If you can only CRITICIZE, then please keep your dimwitted mouth shut.

I'm sorry... could you repeat all that? The Twilight Zone theme started drowning you out about 7 words in...