Which one of Noah's sons died in the flood?

[elwill]

The point is what some think are "errors" in the Bible has no place in this thread.

It looks to me like you are trying to detail my topic in order to try to cover up an error in the Qur'an. Your response shows you are very nervous and have panicked.

which errors in the quran ?

 

[GeorgeTwo]

[FONT=&quot]7. Forgetting that the Bible is a human book with human characteristics.[/FONT]
Allaho Akbar, you mentioned it yourself, a human book human book, is that mean that it was writen and composed by men? I wonder I thought you believe that the Bible is your God words not human book.

God's Holy Bible is inspired by Him and written FOR HIM by men. The following is what is meant regarding 7.

With the exception of small sections, like the Ten Commandments which were "written with the finger of God" (Exodus 31:18), the Bible was not verbally dictated. The writers were not secretaries of the Holy Spirit. They were human composers employing their own literary styles and idiosyncrasies. These human authors sometimes used human sources for their material (Josh 10:33; Acts 17:28; 1 Cor. 15:33; Titus 1:12)

Every book of the Bible is the composition of a human writer -- about forty of them in all. The Bible also manifests different human literary styles, from the mournful meter of Lamentations to the exalted poetry of Isaiah; from the simple grammar of John to the complex Greek of the Book of Hebrews. Scripture also manifests human perspectives. David spoke in Psalm 23 from a shepherd's perspective. Kings is written from a prophetic vantage point, and Chronicles from a priestly point of view, etc., etc. (Geisler & Howe)

I think you would do well to keep something from the Qur'an in mind um hamza.

[FONT=&quot]002.136
PICKTHAL: Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Muslims are commanded to believe in God's Holy Bible. Notice that they must not make any distinction between the past revelations and the revelations in the Qur'an. The revelations of the Qur'an and the revelations of the Bible are to be accepted as equals.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]004.150
PICKTHAL: Lo! those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers, and seek to make distinction between Allah and His messengers, and say: We believe in some and disbelieve in others, and seek to choose a way in between; 004.151: Such are disbelievers in truth; and for disbelievers We prepare a shameful doom. 004.152 But those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make no distinction between any of them, unto them Allah will give their wages; and Allah was ever Forgiving, Merciful.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]If Muslims do make a distinction between the Qur'an and God's Holy Bible it will result in a "shameful doom" and they will be judged as a disbeliever or an infidel.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]040.070
PICKTHAL: Those who deny the Scripture and that wherewith We send Our messengers. But they will come to know, 040.071 When carcans are about their necks and chains. They are dragged 040.072 Through boiling waters; then they are thrust into the Fire.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]And,[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

004.136
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His messenger and the Scripture which He hath revealed unto His messenger, and the Scripture which He revealed aforetime. Whoso disbelieveth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers and the Last Day, he verily hath wandered far astray.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]These verses tell us that those who reject part of God's revelations will be thrown into the Fire (hell).

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The Qur'an claims to confirm the past revelations in many, many verses -- the books that came before it -- and you as a Muslim are commanded to hold it in honor.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

 

[GeorgeTwo]

which errors in the quran ?

This is not the topic of "errors in the Qur'an."

The topic is Noah and the son that allegedly drown.

 

[Lisa0315]

According to the Holy Bible Noah had 3 sons and these 3 sons, including their wives, plus Noah and his wife stepped on the Ark and were saved from the flood -- eight people in all.

According to the Qur'an one of Noah's sons refused to get on the Ark and drowned.

Which son drowned?

Thank you.

I have no idea but if it is not in the original story, why go to another source which was written thousands of years after the original? Admittedly, the story of Noah was an oral tradition and written down by Moses many generations after the fact, but still...

Lisa

 

[Rasta]

I have no idea but if it is not in the original story, why go to another source which was written thousands of years after the original? Admittedly, the story of Noah was an oral tradition and written down by Moses many generations after the fact, but still...

By this logic, shouldn't we look to the Epic of Gilgamesh then, since it details the flood story hundreds if not thousands of years before the Talmud (Old Testament) was written?

 

[Lisa0315]

By this logic, shouldn't we look to the Epic of Gilgamesh then, since it details the flood story hundreds if not thousands of years before the Talmud (Old Testament) was written?

Not familiar with that. Do you have a link?

Lisa

 

[Lisa0315]

By this logic, shouldn't we look to the Epic of Gilgamesh then, since it details the flood story hundreds if not thousands of years before the Talmud (Old Testament) was written?

What I could find (which was not much) was a mention of the flood but no details.

Lisa

 

[Rasta]

What I could find (which was not much) was a mention of the flood but no details.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamian_mythology

Many stories in Sumerian religion appear similar to stories in other Middle-Eastern religions. For example, the Biblical account of the creation of man as well as Noah's flood resemble the Sumerian tales very closely, though the Sumerian myths were written many centuries earlier than the Tanakh.

Source: http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/sumer-faq.html

The religion of the ancient Sumerians has left its mark on the entire middle east. Not only are its temples and ziggurats scattered about the region, but the literature, cosmogony and rituals influenced their neighbors to such an extent that we can see echoes of Sumer in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition today. From these ancient temples, and to a greater extent, through cuneiform writings of hymns, myths, lamentations, and incantations, archaeologists and mythographers afford the modern reader a glimpse into the religious world of the Sumerians.

Source: http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/assyrbabyl-faq.html

VII. I've heard there are Biblical parallels in Babylonian literature. What are they anyway?

Genesis: Creation of the universe
Ps:74:12-17 - YHWH vs. Leviathan; Marduk vs Tiamat. In the Enuma Elish, tablet IV, Marduk defeats the ocean goddess, Tiamat who is often depicted as a multi-headed dragon. He splits her apart, as YHWH splits apart the sea in Ps 74:13. He crushes her skull as YHWH crushes the skulls of the monster Leviathan in Ps 74:13-14. In tablet V, Marduk causes the crescent moon to appear, creates the seasons, the night and day, and creates springs from Tiamat's eyes, to form the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, as YHWH does in Ps 74:15-17 (Hooke p.106, Dalley pp.253-257)

Creation of humans.
Fall of man.
Adapa was the first "apkallu" (sage/priest), not the first man or first patriarch. He was given wisdom (knowledge of good and evil?) but not immortality. When in heaven (sent there for having broken the South Wind's wing), he is offered bread and water of eternal life. He refuses it, however having been tricked by Ea (in serpent role?) stating that he would be offered the bread and water of death instead. (Dalley pp. 182-188) In other references to the seven apkallu, he is the counsellor paired with the first anteluvian king on the Sumerian king lists (Dalley p. 328), Alulim - not Alulim himself, who was Adam's analog in patriarchal order.
Tower of Babel
As with the Sumerians, the most striking Biblical parallel within Akkadian myth is in the story of the flood. For the Babylonian account, see the entries on Atrahasis and Utnapishtim above.
Exodus - According to legend, Sargon was left in a basket in the Euphrates as an infant and "rose 'from an ark of bulrushes'" (Oppenheim, Ancient Mesopotamia p. 101). His adoptive father was a "laborer in a palm garden who spotted the basket containing the remarkable child" (Crawford p. 42) Sargon was originally the cupbearer to a king (Ur-Zababa) before achieving leadership on his own. (Crawford p. 25)
Weeping for Tammuz and the month of Tammuz. See also Biblical Parallels in Sumerian Mythology

This should be enough to get you started.

 

[GeorgeTwo]

I have no idea but if it is not in the original story, why go to another source which was written thousands of years after the original? Lisa

Why indeed.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This is not the topic of "errors in the Qur'an."

The topic is Noah and the son that allegedly drown.

Did you ever get an answer?

 

[Rasta]

Why indeed.

Good question. I've got an answer. It is the same reason why you read the Bible rather than the Talmud or other sources, see Sumerian Myths. It is to maintain your presuppositions of reality.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Good question. I've got an answer. It is the same reason why you read the Bible rather than the Talmud or other sources, see Sumerian Myths. It is to maintain your presuppositions of reality.

If it is good enuf for the Jews and Muslims, it is good enuf for me.


Exodus 3:And 'Elohiym is saying to Mosheh, "I-shall-be/01961 hayah who I-shall-be/01961 hayah". And-He saying "Thus you shall say to sons of Yisra'el, 'I-shall-be/01961 hayah, He-sent-me unto-ye'".

John 8:57 Said then the Judeans towards Him, "Fifty years, not as-yet thou are having, and Abraham thou has seen?'
58 Said to them Jesus "Verily, verily, I am saying to ye, before Abraham's to be becoming/genesqai <1096> (5635) --I Am;

 

[GeorgeTwo]

In order to get my topic back on track. The Qur'an says:

(Remember) Noah, when he cried (to Us) aforetime: We listened to his (prayer) and delivered him and his family from great distress. -- Surah
21:76

What does this verse mean? It seems to mean that Noah and his complete family were saved from the flood.

True or not?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by um hamza

Noah's wife was not a believer with him so she did not join him; neither did one of Noah's sons,
who was secretly a disbeliever but had pretended faith in front of Noah. Likewise most of the
people were disbeliveers and did not go on board.
The scholars hold different opinions on the number of those who were with Noah on the ship. Ibn
Abbas stated that there were 80 believers while Ka ab al Ahbar held that there were 72 believers.
Others claimed that there were 10 believers with Noah.

Stories of the Prophets

Written by Al-Imam ibn Kathir​

Translated by Muhammad Mustapha Geme&#8217;ah, Al-Azhar
​

Muslim source in order to cover up the mistake in the Qur'an.

Perhaps I just missed it, but what passage in the Koran tells about one or some of Noah's kin/family not getting into the ark?

Here are the 2 events of Noah and his family getting into the ark:

Genesis 6:18 And I set up covenant of Me with you, and you come to the ark, you and sons of you and woman of you and women of sons of you with you.
19 And from all of the living from all flesh, two from all you shall bring to the Ark to preserve alive with you, male/02145 zakar and female/05347 n@qebah they shall be.

Gene 7:1 And YHWH is saying to Noah come! you and all of house-hold of you to the ark, that you I see righteous in generation, the this.
2 From every of the beast the clean you shall take to seven seven a man/'iysh and its woman/'ishshah of him, and from the beast not clean, he two man/'iysh and its woman/'ishshah of him.

 

[anatolian]

In Genesis 6:10 it says Noah had three sons but in 9:24-25 Canaan the grandson of Noah is mentioned as a son of Noah at the same time too.This fourth son who refused to enter the ark might be a grand son of Noah.None of the three.

 

[GeorgeTwo]

Good question. I've got an answer. It is the same reason why you read the Bible rather than the Talmud or other sources, see Sumerian Myths. It is to maintain your presuppositions of reality.

What makes you assume I do not read the Talmud?

The belief in Jesus and His resurrection from the dead was explosive -- and way to early for any myths to creep in.

However, you can believe otherwise if it makes you feel better.

 

[GeorgeTwo]

Perhaps I just missed it, but what passage in the Koran tells about one or some of Noah's kin/family not getting into the ark?

Here it is:

So the Ark floated with them on the waves (towering) like mountains,
and Noah called out to his son, who had separated himself (from the rest):
"O my son! embark with us, and be not with the unbelievers!"


The son replied: "I will betake myself to some mountain: it will save me from the water."


Noah said: "This day nothing can save, from the command of Allah,
any but those on whom He hath mercy!" And the waves came between them, and the son was among those overwhelmed in the Flood. -- Surah 11:42-43


Kind of interesting in itself. There was only one entrance to the Ark.


If the "waves (towering) like mountains" had occurred when this member refused to get on the Ark, the water would have come into the Ark and sunk it.


Further than that, if there were waves like mountains this means that there would have been lots of wind.

How was it that this member who refused to get on the Ark could hear Noah over the noise of the wind from a diistance?

 

[peaceful soul]

there is no reason to post this?? I think you talk about my second post , but it's ok for you that little lamb says Perhaps Muhammad wanted to save on ink it's ok for you to moak about prophet Muhamed peace be upon him, and also he said Maybe one reaon they need to use our Bible for their own account. Who knows........

he thinks that Islam with his two main sources Quran and sunna need the Bible to get information from, no I won't accept that moaking so I replied to him my post was for his words and be sure that Iam telling no lies there already mistakes in the bible and for your information I have taken my post from christian site, I hope you get it no need for you to be angry
he said a thing about me and I replied, end of the deal

For whatever reason you did, it serves no useful purpose to try to attack the other side as if that will make your assertions true. Calling attention to the Bible is not going to resolve any issues that someone may have with the Qu'ran or with Islam. As George has stated, part of the problem with alleged contradictions is that the accuser doesn't always realize his or her own limitations that he or she places upon the text and the fact that their thoughts and understandings are not infallible.

Can we know go forward without the references to the Bible?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Here it is:......

Further than that, if there were waves like mountains this means that there would have been lots of wind.

How was it that this member who refused to get on the Ark could hear Noah over the noise of the wind from a diistance?

Perhaps they had a type of "megaphone" we use today. Interesting that word comes from the Greek words used in the NT/NC for "great-voice/sound"

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Revelation 16:1 And I hear a great/megalhV <3173> voice/fwnhV <5456> out of the sanctuary saying to the seven messengers : "Be ye going away! and be ye pouring out! the seven bowls of the fury of the God into the land".

3173. megas meg'-as (including the prolonged forms, feminine megale,

5456. phone fo-nay' probably akin to 5316 through the idea of disclosure;

 

[GeorgeTwo]

Perhaps they had a type of "megaphone" we use today. Interesting that word comes from the Greek words used in the NT/NC for "great-voice/sound"

LOL

I think there is another explanation for the supposed drowning of one of Noah's sons and also for the unbelief of Noah's wife.

Perhaps Muhammad was using this story as a lesson to his audience and making alterations in it to make some kind of a point or lesson to his audience?????

Let your imagination be your guide. If you wanted to teach a lesson of Noah's son who refused to get on the boat or Noah's wife who became an unbeliever how would you do it? What lesson would you try to get across? What did Muhammad think his audience needed to hear to believe him or obey his teachings? Were they doubting him and he needed to put some fear in them in order for them to come around?

I am suggesting that Muhammad accepted the story of the flood in the Hebrew Scriptures but used it to make a point of his own.




http://www.scripture4all.org/

Revelation 16:1 And I hear a great/megalhV <3173> voice/fwnhV <5456> out of the sanctuary saying to the seven messengers : "Be ye going away! and be ye pouring out! the seven bowls of the fury of the God into the land".

3173. megas meg'-as (including the prolonged forms, feminine megale,

5456. phone fo-nay' probably akin to 5316 through the idea of disclosure;[/quote]