what do you know about Islam?

[anatolian]

There is no circular logic in what I said.

Is this your attempt to divert the topic like so many Muslims do on a regular basis? My reply had to do with recognizing that some of Mohammad's actions were immoral in the AD 600s if they are classified today as immoral. Muslims argue moral relativism when they try to cover up Mohammad's faults. They always have a reason such as "He and the Ummah were provoked" by non Muslims to behave as they did or some other fault of non Muslims. But, the greatest one is when Mohammad claims that Allah commanded him to do something. Mohammad never claimed to have spoken to Allah.

Islamic history never puts the blame on Mohammad or other Muslims. It is unrealistic to believe that non Muslims are the wrongdoers in all cases. This is part of the problem with Muslims. I can't take your religion seriously if you are not willing to see that your prophet was not the best example of all times or even for his life time. There are other people both present and past that have had higher moral and ethical standards than your prophet. Since you and most of your other Muslims (co-religionists) are so blind to this, you cannot make a subjective statement on the issue.

Salam.Your circular logic is that "Muhammed can't be a prophet because he behaved immoral and the prophets of God can't behave immoral" although the same source says that God wanted him to do so.God revealed the Prophet to marry with Aisha bint Abu Bakr.You say that "I don't believe that Muhammed is a prophet so God did not reveal him anything therefor his marriage with aisha bint Abu bakr was because of his desire to her." As you see giving His marriage with her can not be used as an argument against his prophethood.

Now let's come to 'the morality' part...

1.If you view the event as a judicial crime, how on earth you can use the islamic hadith books wich you normally don't take as trustworthy sources as an evidence? Lack of evidence.Otherwise you become a hypocrite (like mr.australian)

2.If you use the word with the sociologic sense ,I'm sorry but this puts you in a ridiculous situation since one of the golden laws of sociology and history is that you can't blame the historical events according to the standarts of a later time.

3.If you look from a religious view, as you said God's standarts of morality doesn't change and the Bible your religious book contains several similar events which can beviewed as immoral by today's modern thinking and you don't do it but do it only when Muhammed aleyhissalam did or Islam contains them???

 

[peaceful soul]

...good point , it's the same in islam , there's no texts on the subject at all therefore there's nothing to say that it should be allowed to continue on forever either
(remember that we said to you , if it is illegal there is noproblem with muslims to accept it )

Montalban , are you should take Jesus (pbuh) as a good example for your life ?

1st paragraph: The difference here with Islam is that you are told that your prophet's actions are like gold. Even you have admitted that Mohammad is a religious and moral example to follow. This allows you to emulate him. Therefore, if he did something, it is permissible for others. There is nothing that I am aware of in your religious texts that tell us that you should not follow Mohammad's examples, or that you should only follow certain ones and not others. The whole foundation of your religion rests upon knowing and following what your prophet claimed was a divine revelation, and his actions have been sanctioned by Allah; so, there is your permission to do what he did right there, elwill.

2nd paragraph: Although we do take Jesus as a good example, He does not tell us that we are to follow His examples. He tells us to obey His teachings. That is a huge difference between what Christians do and what Muslims do.

"If you love Me, keep My commandments." (John 14:15)

Where do you see anything in that statement that tells us to act like Jesus? Some Christians do try to emulate Jesus in some ways, but it should not be that way because of them trying to do what He did. Rather we are lead by God's Spirit and are able to emulate His moral, ethical standards by God's help--not by our fleshly efforts. In Islam, it is your fleshly efforts that try to take the place of God's Spirit (Holy Spirit). You have to study Mohammad's actions so that you know how to practice Islam correctly. This is not the way true Christianity works. We look to Christ--not His actions as our compass. Muslims look to both the actions of Mohammad and the teachings to follow Allah.

Lastly, the reason that I know that you follow Mohammad's actions is by how you talk and what you say to Christians. Many (if not all) Muslims on this site have tried to tell us that we don't follow Jesus correctly because we are not prostrating and praying in the manner that Jesus and the other prophets did. The difference here is that Christians are not to try to pray like Jesus did; rather, we are to pray as Jesus did--to our Heavenly Father and in compliance to God's will. See the difference? Another example: Jesus washed the feet of His Disciples. Christians are not obligated to do this. Why? Because, as mentioned already, we are to obey His commandments--not His actions. A Muslim, on the other hand, could find a reason to to practice Jesus' actions because he or she is lead by examples of what prophets do in addition to the teachings that came from Allah through Gabriel presumably.

I hope that this insight will help you to see what you are ignoring or can't understand.

 

[elwill]

During the early months when I was undergoing counselling, I was asked by the psychologist what I would wish to see eradicated. I told him I wished there was no Islam. Then there wouldn't be all this killing.

i am very sorry for your accident , beamishboy
and i hope you will overcome it

if you accept my advice , i think that you must face your fears
if you fears from muslims , so try to be closer to them if you get the chance

i can understand your feelings , and i can give you the excuse for your fearing from any muslim , anyway i think that you must to face your fears , may be muslims are not guilty for that as you imagine

I know it's wrong to read negative reports about Muslim terrorists but how positive can reports be after the London Underground bombing followed by the Bali bombing (and that was the second Bali bombing)? How can the reporters sweeten events like these?

you will find also negative reports about muslim terrorists in islamic sites , terrorism isn't good in islam relegion either

If the world thinks badly of Islam generally, moderate Muslims should really get angry with the Muslim terrorists and extremists.

MUSLIMS CONDEMN LONDON BOMBINGS
http://www.islamawareness.net/Terrorist/London/

 

[peaceful soul]

Salam.Your circular logic is that "Muhammed can't be a prophet because he behaved immoral and the prophets of God can't behave immoral" although the same source says that God wanted him to do so.God revealed the Prophet to marry with Aisha bint Abu Bakr.You say that "I don't believe that Muhammed is a prophet so God did not reveal him anything therefor his marriage with aisha bint Abu bakr was because of his desire to her." As you see giving His marriage with her can not be used as an argument against his prophethood.

Now let's come to 'the morality' part...

1.If you view the event as a judicial crime, how on earth you can use the islamic hadith books wich you normally don't take as trustworthy sources as an evidence? Lack of evidence.Otherwise you become a hypocrite (like mr.australian)

2.If you use the word with the sociologic sense ,I'm sorry but this puts you in a ridiculous situation since one of the golden laws of sociology and history is that you can't blame the historical events according to the standarts of a later time.

3.If you look from a religious view, as you said God's standarts of morality doesn't change and the Bible your religious book contains several similar events which can beviewed as immoral by today's modern thinking and you don't do it but do it only when Muhammed aleyhissalam did or Islam contains them???

Anatolian, you are going off onto something totally foreign to what I have said. Firsty, my argument is not circular. I was not the one who said that Mohammad was not a prophet on any grounds. I never mentioned that He was not a prophet because of his actions, although that would be part of why I know. There are many evidences that tell us that Mohammad was not a prophet of God, and none of them involved his morality; however, there are quite a few of them that do.

Secondly, it is an established fact that Mohammad's actions have been sanctioned by Allah. Allah gave him permission to do things that Christians find immoral and ungodly, but Allah told Mohammad that it was OK anyways. The key here is that you are commanded to follow Mohammad's actions as a way of knowing what is allowable and what is not allowable. That is how your societies are constructed--from Mohammad's examples. That is how your religious laws are constructed--from his examples and teachings via Sunnah and Hadiths. Whatever he did can be used as an moral example for you, a Muslim. Although it may not be made into law, it can still be practiced because simply speaking, your prophet did it and Allah allowed it; therefore it is permissible. You don't need a law to follow Mohammad since his examples were authorized by Allah. Do you understand what I am saying?

In Christianity we follow God relationally. It is the works of God through Christ--not Mohammad or any other human--that guide us to know what to do and how to act--not the examples of prophets or any other human. Sure, we can look at what others do, but the model set forth by their actions cannot be followed anyways without being obedient to the Holy Spirit.

 

[peaceful soul]

montalban , it wasn't never religious issue , not before not now not in the future , and wasn't a religous issue in islam nor christianity nor judas

it was always cultural issue , in your culture it's 18yo , in others 21yo , and you will find many other cultures which determine 17 or 16 or 14 or 12yo

what about the laws of your society 300 years ago ? was it 18 yo ? i dont think so

Elwill, here is what I see is the point that you are missing. Once Allah allowed Mohammad to do something, it became an example of righteousness from an Islamic point of view. This allows for such a practice to be followed if a Muslim wishes to do so. The key word is "wishes". That means if Muslims agree that marrying a female under the age of 10 is immoral today, it would also have been immoral when it happened as well. If Allah allowed Mohammad such privileges, then it becomes a righteous act. It is no longer culturally bounded. This is the same with anything unless there is a definitive context that disallows the action beyond that specific time and place. If there is no such limit, then that action can be propagated. The question is this: Did Allah prohibit this action of Mohammad from being propagated? Also, did Mohammad indicate that this action was not to be followed although he did it?

 

[um hamza]

Do you really believe that? It is a crime for an adult to have sex with children. People go to jail for that.

you didn't get my idea i am saying that some ppl thinks that it's a crime for prophet Mohamed peace be upon him to get marey from Aisha and i said if it is so why there are a big number of children between 10 to 14 was pregnant in the west countries

 

[um hamza]

Hi elwill,

You are very kind.

The therapy and counselling that I've been going for is designed to help me forget the Bali bombing incident. But it's not easy. Any time there is news of another bombing (like the Belgian embassy bombing in Pakistan), I get nightmares again. My nightmares always begin with my Dad and I walking out of Raja Restaurant. That's followed by a VERY loud explosion. The nightmare is very vivid. I feel myself thrown off my feet to the road. I feel actual pain on my chin when I hit the road. I feel pain on the palm of my hands where I had cuts from the abrasion on the road. I can hear my Dad calling out to me hysterically. (He thought I had died from the blast at first). Then I can feel him picking me up and running his hand behind my head and back, to ensure that there are no shrapnels. The Muslim terrorists put in a lot of ball bearings and nails to ensure maximum injury and death to civilians in the restaurant. And then I see the head next to me. That will usually wake me up, screaming.

During the early months when I was undergoing counselling, I was asked by the psychologist what I would wish to see eradicated. I told him I wished there was no Islam. Then there wouldn't be all this killing. He told my Dad that the only thing the terrorists succeeded in doing is to distance people from Islam. He said people like me would never be able to think well of Islam, far less, to convert to the religion. It's been almost three years since the Bali bombing and although I only suffered scratches that have long healed, I cannot hear the Muslim call to prayer without the urge to run away from a danger source. Before the Bali bombing, I went to Istanbul with my parents and I visited the Blue Mosque which is beautiful. Today, I would never visit Turkey or enter a mosque and it's not a conscious thing but I find myself physically unable to do so. I keep telling myself that not all Muslims approve of the Bali bombing and there are many nice muslims like elwill who are non-violent but I just have a terrible phobia that I can't get over. The psychologist thinks we should not push it but he also says that some people just can't get over this phobia.

On the first anniversary of the 7th July London Underground bombing, I was invited to sing in the Memorial Service. They got me because I was a "survivor of Islamic terrorists". At that time, my voice had not yet become unstable like it is now and I sang "I Vow to Thee My Country", our most famous patriotic song and I'm sure I gave Katherine Jenkins a run for her money. Hehe.

I know it's wrong to read negative reports about Muslim terrorists but how positive can reports be after the London Underground bombing followed by the Bali bombing (and that was the second Bali bombing)? How can the reporters sweeten events like these?

If the world thinks badly of Islam generally, moderate Muslims should really get angry with the Muslim terrorists and extremists. You can't blame the rest of the world. Some of us need therapy for years before we can even hear a Muslim prayer without feeling the urge to run away and take cover.

i apologize to you for what happened to you by some of our brs who doesn't know thhere religion very well

 

[Secundulus]

you didn't get my idea i am saying that some ppl thinks that it's a crime for prophet Mohamed peace be upon him to get marey from Aisha and i said if it is so why there are a big number of children between 10 to 14 was pregnant in the west countries

We put people in jail for less than Muhammed did when he molested a six year old girl.

 

[dlamberth]

I know I'm way late in this thread, sorry...but the OP ask about what I now about Isalm so I thought I'd tell you...what I know about Islam is La ilaha ilallah Hu. And that is all that I feel or even want to know about Islam.

.

 

[Jefell]

What do you know about islam? ​

It’s a question I always wanted to ask to non- Muslim
Does Islam mean terrorism??
Does Islam mean violence???
Does Islam mean women depression???
Is Islam a barbaric religion only for Arabs?​

If so then why you didn't ask your self why Muslims numbers are increasing everyday

Gurdian,Monday March 31 2008

The number of Muslims has overtaken that of Roman Catholics for the first time, the Vatican said yesterday.​

Muslims account for 19.2% of the world's population, while Catholics make up 17.4%, according to the Vatican's new statistics yearbook, which is based on figures for 2006. ​

"For the first time in history we are no longer at the top: the Muslims have overtaken us," said Monsignor Vittorio Formenti, who edited the yearbook. ​

"While it is known that Muslim families continue to have many children, Christian families are having fewer," he said in an interview with the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano.

The article said that Muslims have many children sothat they are many. It didn't mentioned that many people have entered Islam

Muslims in Europe are about 12,5 million , in America about 8 million and so on statics are a lot you can find more by searching in google
Think for a minute why islam spreading in the world ? although it is attacked by many ways
Think and tell me
Pardon my English ​

What do we know about Islam?

We KNOW: THE TRUTH:

#1) Mohammad descends from Ishmael (the son born in sin that was cast out into the desert by GOD's orders)

#2) We know that Mohammad wanted to be a prophet.. so he TOOK Judiasm (the religion of David, that the Jews follow) and changed a few things around and called it ISLAM. Mohammad thought that since it was so close to Judiasm and that he was a decendant of Abraham the Jews would follow him. The Jews were devout and held true to their GOD. This angered Mohammad so he called Jews infidels and began murdering them.

#3) We know that Mohammad was a pedophile.. He was 52 years old and RAPED a 9 year old baby girl.

#4) We know that Mohammad was a mentally disturbed hypocrite that did not follow his own words: Mohammad took a bath with a child, fondled her while she was bleeding from her period in a MOSQUE DURING RAMADAAN!!

#5) We know that Mohammad is a known liar as admitted he lied to his wife to trick her to go to her father's so he could RAPE the maid.. His wife came back early and caught him.. the wife told another wife.. they teamed against him so he punished his wives.

#6) We know that Mohammad wrote the Koran..


#7) WE KNOW ISLAM IS A SHAM.



Seek Jesus, Get Saved While You Can.


With Love,
Jefell

www.GETSHOOK.com

JESUS IS THE GATE.

 

[Montalban]

thank you anatolian , i noticed that allready
i just want to know where will we arrive in this discussion .
he not seek the knowledge of islam from view of muslims .
he just make his own conclusions and trying to convince us that we have the same conclusions of his own

What is it with Moslems that they have to be so misrepresenting of facts? When I cite Islamic advice sites you put this down as 'he (does) not seek the knowledge of Islam from (the) view of Moslems'

Is it like a thing you have to swear to do when you join up

"I promise to ignore evidence presented. I also promise to continually straw-man Christian argument. So help me al-Lah"

There's no internal criticism amongst Moslems. None at all.

Islam_M and Futuwwa change argument so quickly, but their co-religionists only spout words of praise. Futuwwa for instance stated Aisha was not harmed by her young marriage - 'proving' this by saying she grew up happy. I showed she actually grew up to be a betrayer of many people - quite devious (probably the influence of Islam). He demanded that I prove a link between this behaviour and her state of mind - not even pausing to realise he offered no proof to link her 'happiness' and her state of mind.

Islam_M stated that there was no 'example' of Muhammed ofr Moslems. Then changed his mind to say that there was.

At no stage do any Moslems here ever acknowledge a mistake. Never. They just press on ahead.

 

[Montalban]

is it because we pray to allah and thank him in these verses ?
allah teach us how to worship him

Finally, a fair answer. Where does it say "Say this..."?

really , again incomplete verse , to proof your point
the complete verse in its entire words , allah say
6-11 Say (O Muhammad to them): "Travel in the land and see what was the end of those who rejected truth."
6-12-Say(o Mohammed to them): To whom belongs what is in the heavens and the earth? Say(o Mohammed): To Allah; He has ordained mercy on Himself; most certainly He will gather you on the resurrection day-- there is no doubt about it. (As for) those who have lost their souls, they will not believe.
6-13 And to Him belongs whatever dwells in the night and the day; and He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
6-14 Say(o Mohammed to them): Shall I take a guardian besides Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, and He feeds (others) and is not (Himself) fed. Say: I am commanded to be the first who submits himself, and you should not be of the polytheists.

so , you erased the first word "say" to proof your point , shame on you

I erased nothing. Shame on you for jumping back to your misrepresentation. I cited directly from an Islamic Koran site.

all the verses above refer to God , just the last one is refer to mohammed
your misunderstanding caused of your ignorance about arabic language]

In case you haven't realised, we're debating in English. Not Arabic. I'm using English translations as chosen by Moselms!

i know that this one is from muslim site , so go ahead and see what muslims think about these verses from islamic sites also

quran is very different from any other book , when you read it , you find it like a movie , if you have knowledge about arabic language you will not need these bracketes to determine whom he and whom we and whom I
that is why you must ask arabs about what verses mean

Here's other translations:
006.104
YUSUFALI: "Now have come to you, from your Lord, proofs (to open your eyes): if any will see, it will be for (the good of) his own soul; if any will be blind, it will be to his own (harm): I am not (here) to watch over your doings."
PICKTHAL: Proofs have come unto you from your Lord, so whoso seeth, it is for his own good, and whoso is blind is blind to his own hurt. And I am not a keeper over you.
SHAKIR: Indeed there have come to you clear proofs from your Lord; whoever will therefore see, it is for his own soul and whoever will be blind, it shall be against himself and I am not a keeper over you
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/006.qmt.html

The "I" in this is Muhammed. It doesn't say before this "Say this...". (I deal a bit more with the internal confusion in the Koran at bottom with a link to a site about meaningless words in the Koran)

Interestingly, there are a couple of aya relating directly to incidents from Muhammad's own life:
Sura 33: Confederates

37 And when thou didst say to him [Muhammad's adopted son] God had shown favour to and thou hadst shown favour to, ‘Keep thy wife to thyself and fear God;’ and thou didst conceal in thy soul what God was about to display; and didst fear men, though God is more deserving that thou shouldst fear Him; and when Zaid had fulfilled his desire of her we did wed thee to her that there should be no hindrance to the believers in the matter of the wives of their adopted sons when they have fulfilled their desire of them: and so God’s bidding to be done.

Sura 16: The Bee

103 And whenever we change one verse for another,- God knows best what He sends down. They say, ‘Thou art but a forger!’- Nay, most of them do not know.


For anyone else interested there's an article on meaningless words in the Koran...
Words that have no meaning
such as this
Sura 112:2
Allahu alssamadu
Or,
Allah as-Samad.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/samad.htm

 

[Montalban]

listen to me i can see that you for about 200 posts argue with my fellow muslims about prophet Muhamed peace be upon him and his marriage from Aisha and I myself told you before it's ok in arab lands even in about 100 year ago it's ok for a 12 or 13 girl to get married but you didn't stop you us to say yes it was wrong what happened but if we look at western countries theses days we find that in 1994 there was about 12,900 case of delivery from girls between 10 to 14 search for it in google and you will be astonshed it western countries it's ok to have sex in 10 11 12 years old but in Islam it's a crime to get married from a 9 years old girl from 1400 years ago ????? i wonder

Where is it 'permitted' by my religious texts to do this?

 

[Islam_mulia]

Islam_M stated that there was no 'example' of Muhammed ofr Moslems. Then changed his mind to say that there was.

Are you serious? I have never claimed that.

I only mentioned that in the case of the Prophet marrying Aisha, the 'example' that Muslims should get is not on the age of women getting married but on the institution and reasons for marriage that Muhammad (pbuh) set as an example.

Obviusly, the Prophet had provided many examples of what, when, where and how to do things, and came with proper teachings in the hadith. These are examples that Muslim follow. There are other things that the Prophet did or did not do that Muslims do not have to follow or avoid. Someone mentioned the Prophet riding a camel. There was no TV at that time.

In short, I am disappointed that you resort to lies to forward your argument... most of it have been addressed by fellow Muslims here.

 

[Islam_mulia]

Where is it 'permitted' by my religious texts to do this?

You are right. Christian scriptures or Christian traditions handed down by Christian fathers did not object to child marriages. It was not wrong in Jewish custom at Christ's time to marry a girl below 9 (or younger). Christ never say a word against this 'crime' (as you may put it). Paul never said that this custom should be eradicated totally. None of the christian fathers make an effort to ban this practice.

If you claim that a god live with humans, noted the custom and practice of child marriages among people he stayed and slept with, say nothing wrong about this practice... why would you, a human, who follow the teaching of the same person you claimed to be god, would make a noise out of it.

It is the same case as Slavery. Christ did not object to slavery as he did not object to child marriages.

Prove me wrong.

 

[um hamza]

We put people in jail for less than Muhammed did when he molested a six year old girl.

do you put girls from 10 to 14 years in jail when they do sex by there own well?? or in western counties there is no girl do sex untill she is 15??

 

[Montalban]

Are you serious? I have never claimed that.

You kept demanding that I show you where the Koran legislates that a Moslem can marry a 9 year old. I said it was an example and it's permitted. Even though I pointed that this was not my argument. You then kept asking where it says Moslems are legislated to marry certain types, and you exampled a widow

Then you modified the 'example' of his marriages to "The focus on his marriage is therefore not on his liking for younger women, but his example for Muslims to choose a wife to foster relationship between families and clans, a wife that has a good religious background and hence can help guide his children to be good Muslims, etc."

I then asked you about whether he consummated that marriage. You ignored that - even by post #290 you were simply repeating yourself that his marriage was some kind of platonic (my term) marriage. Instead in post #220* you go back to asking me if it's legislated. You're simply up to your old tricks again. In post #251 you still insist I'm arguing about Moslems being legislated to marry someone that young.

I'm still waiting for you also to defend your 'argument from silence' claims and to acknowledge the title of John of Damascus' work. In post #269 you say it's irrelevant how Chrisitans thought of Islam when in fact you made that very argument as proof that marrying a child was okay. That was a laugh! And you still tried to get some mileage out of my statement about John of Damascus not knowing how to react to Isalm. You either want to argue about this, or not. You've not made up your mind.

But it's convenient for you to forget about these things as well.

That's the problem with Islamic debate.

*-that's the same post where you said "Having said that, I have not heard of any Muslim women at our time that are legally married at 9 years old" which shows you didn't read my advice site where a girl was married at that age. Secundulus latter gave an example of someone younger.

 

[Montalban]

You are right. Christian scriptures or Christian traditions handed down by Christian fathers did not object to child marriages.

You don't know this.

You keep saying that it is so. You've not evidenced it. You just keep repeating it. You've also not said how an alleged silence is approval. But you just keep pushing on. ROFL

It was not wrong in Jewish custom at Christ's time to marry a girl below 9 (or younger). Christ never say a word against this 'crime' (as you may put it). Paul never said that this custom should be eradicated totally. None of the christian fathers make an effort to ban this practice.

It's a very easy claim to make because on can't say "Show me that none of them said anything against it - if in fact they never said anything against it".

And, it's not up to me to prove you wrong. It's your claim. Onus is on you.

 

[Montalban]

do you put girls from 10 to 14 years in jail when they do sex by there own well?? or in western counties there is no girl do sex untill she is 15??

*sigh*
That's the point. A child is not deemed responsible! That's the very reason to reject the idea of a 40+ man having sex with a 9 year old

 

[um hamza]

What do we know about Islam?

We KNOW: THE TRUTH:

#1) Mohammad descends from Ishmael (the son born in sin that was cast out into the desert by GOD's orders)

#2) We know that Mohammad wanted to be a prophet.. so he TOOK Judiasm (the religion of David, that the Jews follow) and changed a few things around and called it ISLAM. Mohammad thought that since it was so close to Judiasm and that he was a decendant of Abraham the Jews would follow him. The Jews were devout and held true to their GOD. This angered Mohammad so he called Jews infidels and began murdering them.

#3) We know that Mohammad was a pedophile.. He was 52 years old and RAPED a 9 year old baby girl.

#4) We know that Mohammad was a mentally disturbed hypocrite that did not follow his own words: Mohammad took a bath with a child, fondled her while she was bleeding from her period in a MOSQUE DURING RAMADAAN!!

#5) We know that Mohammad is a known liar as admitted he lied to his wife to trick her to go to her father's so he could RAPE the maid.. His wife came back early and caught him.. the wife told another wife.. they teamed against him so he punished his wives.

#6) We know that Mohammad wrote the Koran..


#7) WE KNOW ISLAM IS A SHAM.



Seek Jesus, Get Saved While You Can.


With Love,
Jefell



JESUS IS THE GATE.[/quot
i meant the questions in page 20 about christianty n't this iam waiting...