what do you know about Islam?

[um hamza]

Can none of you deal with evidence? Claims of vicotries past probably are necessary for you if you're comfort zone is quickly shrinking

again you want evidence again you argue and argue i can't mention websites but look for yusuf estes american priest entered islam with his wife father and friend and iam sure that you will never agree with the idea even if we mentioed 1000 evidence

 

[Montalban]

again you want evidence again you argue and argue i can't mention websites but look for yusuf estes american priest entered islam with his wife father and friend and iam sure that you will never agree with the idea even if we mentioed 1000 evidence

Try dealing with the evidence I provided

 

[Jefell]

What is it with Moslems that they have to be so misrepresenting of facts?

There's no internal criticism amongst Moslems. None at all.

At no stage do any Moslems here ever acknowledge a mistake. Never. They just press on ahead.

Their vision/perception is bad.. it has been skewed by Islam..

Mt 6:23 But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

Isa 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

Even if muslims find fault they do not REPENT.. they have no source to repent to.. so instead they look for another weapon.

They believe in Jesus Christ as he is even in their own book.. but they do not look any further..

Jn 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it

Mk 7:21-23 For from within, out of men’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man ‘unclean.’ "

Without accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior.. you can not be forgiven for your sins..


Jn 3:19-21 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."


Jn 5:22-24 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.


Jesus Saves.


With Love,
-Jefell

www.GETSHOOK.com

 

[elwill]

originally posted by elwill
I agree that immoral[FONT=&quot] ≠[/FONT] illegal, but it can be. Since we are talking about Mohammad being a perfect example, it does matter and would be an huge issue. Defending it based on moral relative circumstances (it was normal at that time or no one objected to it) shows that you don't see the problem.
The fact is that it is seen as immoral today.

you actually didn't get my point
i'm not seeing it as immoral even if today , may be today its preferable to not marry girl in this early age because today the life is more complex and girls have some priorities over the marriage as studying for example

Even in 6th century Arabia, people buried their children alive. Some tribes did not object to the practice. Would that normal act be OK with you?

no it's not okey , God prohibit us to make that

Naturally you disagree because it would paint a negative picture of your prophet. You are more worried about your prophet's image and reputation than you are of what is immoral.

it dosn't matter with me if it was immoral according to you , which is more important to me that it's not immoral according to allah nor Jesus (pbuh) nor mosas (pbuh)

I have not mentioned anything about bin Laden; so, don't discuss it. I see that you didn't answer my questions. Would you care to address them instead?

i know that you didn't , i just gave you an example , you are denying reaction of the prophet for killing someone who encourage his enemy to killing him
if it was immoral action , so why america wanna to kill binladen , he just a leadership , he just encourage his friends to resist with fight !!!!

By that standard, the U.S. should go and kill leaders of Islamic nations that are trying to encourage enemies of the U.S. to war with them?

no kidding , are you wanna to kill all leaders of islamic nation , it's not what i saying
not every nation offcourse , just the nations which you allready in war with
are you cant get it , this man went to the enemy during the war , the prophet commanded him to be killed during the struggle

But, since he did it under God's will, then it becomes an example that you can follow. Don't miss that main point.

yes it isn't a sin from God's view , may be it's a sin from your own view , well , your view dosn't matter

But, she wouldn't be someone that God sent to make as an example for us to follow in deeds and righteousness. She would not be proclaiming that she represents a moral standard that God requires. That point is lacking in your responses. I don't know if it is on purpose or not.

my point is that you can't proof to me that this act is against God's will

Just because you are a Muslim, that automatically grants you that privilege. Only Muslims can see immorality and judge it as such. An act is not immoral unless Muslims declares it. Is that what you are trying to say? I really feel sorrow for Muslims who are so indoctrinated with religion that they have lost some of their ability to be rational and reasonable about things outside of their religious sphere. Your objectivity has been reduced to almost zero when it comes to seeing a balanced view of Islam.

may be you will need some nonmuslims writings about thier view on mohammed (pbuh)

 

[elwill]

One Moslem here has continually asked me to re-post evidence and yet never deals with it when I do... excepting once when I offerend a non-Islamic site to suggest that's all I offered.

let me take your 2 islamic evidences , and your comment about them

Here's more confirmation - this time from Islamic sites that state her age, and also give advice to Moslems TODAYabout what to do based on this example (showing it's not just of that time/place)

you have 2 points here , the first one , i didn't find any muslims here denyed her age , so it's off point

what about the second point ?
the site give advice to muslims today about what to do , well see with me the advice in bold statements

Q). I have a nine year-old girl who is married to a person at the age of 20. The marriage contract was made a year ago but the girl is refusing to live with her husband or even to look at him. In addition to that she requires him to divorce her. Could you please advise me what to do? Should I separate them or force my daughter to live with him?
(Name and address withheld)
A). It is certainly possible for a father to get his daughter married to someone who he thinks is suitable for her. Whether he should force her into any marriage is something totally different Let me relate this to you: A woman companion of the Prophet came to him and said: "My father has married me away to one of his relatives without asking my opinion. I do not wish to stay with this man as his wife." The Prophet ordered their separation. When she realized that she was free and that she was no longer married to the man, she said to the Prophet: "I now accept what my father has done and I am marrying this man. I only did this so that women may know that it is not up to men to marry them away against their wishes."
Scholars have discussed at length the marriage of a young girl who has not attained puberty and whether her father may marry her away without her permission. If such a marriage takes place it is valid. However, it is perhaps best if the marriage is not allowed to be consummated until the girl attains puberty, when she is given the choice whether to continue with this marriage or not. Moreover her father may not marry her away to someone who is of a lesser status than hers. If he does and she objects, the marriage is not valid. Generally speaking, however. a girl must be asked to express her opinion in any proposed marriage. If she has been married before, then her verbal consent should be requested. If she has not been married previously, then her consent is also to be requested, but if she keeps quiet, her silence is taken as approval.
To say that the marriage is valid is not to say that people should go ahead and make such marriages. There may be certain circumstances, which make it desirable or advisable that a very young girl should be married away in this manner but this must not be taken as the normal situation. In marriage, the normal thing is that people should marry when they are of marriageable age. That does not include girls of nine or ten years of age, although some girls may attain puberty that early. Marriage involves certain responsibilities and a very young girl could not be expected to shoulder these. There are also other problems, which the may face, as she grows older. If things go wrong with her marriage, she will always blame her father for having messed up her life, well intentioned though he may be. If you take the example of your own daughter, and you force her to go and live with her husband despite her protestations, you will never be sure whether the marriage will work out well or not. If it does, then well and good. But there is an equal chance that problems may arise especially with your daughter behaving like the child she is. While her husband expects from her the attitude of a married woman. How could you expect her to overcome the feeling that she has been thrown into this situation without being allowed the slightest say in the whole matter which is to affect the rest of her life?

so where is what you claim that the site give the muslims the advice to marry 9yo girls , actually it didn't happened .
the site said that its advisable to not marry in this early age , but if that happened so it's valid from islamic point of view , God not prohibit it nor determined the age of girls for the marriage to be valid
the same as we repond to you in the discussion

 

[anatolian]

Anatolian, you are going off onto something totally foreign to what I have said. Firsty, my argument is not circular. I was not the one who said that Mohammad was not a prophet on any grounds. I never mentioned that He was not a prophet because of his actions, although that would be part of why I know. There are many evidences that tell us that Mohammad was not a prophet of God, and none of them involved his morality; however, there are quite a few of them that do.

Well, you have admited at the end..And, yes there was not a circular logic in your post.It is the general non-muslim(actually christian and jew) circular logic which I mean.You find some of the Prophet's actions immoral/unactable..etc and give this as a reason to reject His prophethood but infact those were the actions which were directly commended-not permited-by God.Once you disbelieve Him you find those actions which don't fit to your understanding unactable but once you believe in His prophethood you understand it...If you personally don't have such a logic-although you said "however, there are quite a few of them that do"- then sorry.

Secondly, it is an established fact that Mohammad's actions have been sanctioned by Allah. Allah gave him permission to do things that Christians find immoral and ungodly, but Allah told Mohammad that it was OK anyways.

Nein! this would be a complete misinterpretation.It's not that Muhammed does whatever he wants but 'Allah takes it easy'..Allah directly commended those actions which you find immoral and ungodly.The Prophet didn't do what he did because of his desires.However you don't believe ,you should know what we believe.

The key here is that you are commanded to follow Mohammad's actions as a way of knowing what is allowable and what is not allowable. That is how your societies are constructed--from Mohammad's examples. That is how your religious laws are constructed--from his examples and teachings via Sunnah and Hadiths. Whatever he did can be used as an moral example for you, a Muslim. Although it may not be made into law, it can still be practiced because simply speaking, your prophet did it and Allah allowed it; therefore it is permissible. You don't need a law to follow Mohammad since his examples were authorized by Allah. Do you understand what I am saying?

Yes, I understand and I corrected you above..We need Quran to folow the Prophet.Anyway he was a living Quran.I believe you can't find him doing something against Quran.If you can, share it with us..

In Christianity we follow God relationally. It is the works of God through Christ--not Mohammad or any other human--that guide us to know what to do and how to act--not the examples of prophets or any other human. Sure, we can look at what others do, but the model set forth by their actions cannot be followed anyways without being obedient to the Holy Spirit.

Ok, let's come to the our topic..You say that in Christianity the works of the prophets do not guide you but you christians still read them, at least you sanction them,because God ordered or sanctioned them to act so, that's the point.And you said God's standarts of morality don't change through the time.I couldn't remember where it was but what about the Moses' commendment for the Israelites in a verse in Torah to take all young girls who have not yet slep with a man after killing all the men and women of a tribe? You say this is moral but the Prophet's marriege with Aisha is immoral according to the same "standarts of morality".What standarts are these peaceful soul?

 

[anatolian]

dp.

 

[Rasta]

What is it with Moslems that they have to be so misrepresenting of facts?

There's no internal criticism amongst Moslems. None at all.

At no stage do any Moslems here ever acknowledge a mistake. Never. They just press on ahead.
​

Hint. This dynamic is not unique to the Islamic faith. How you see them, others see you. Not neccessarily YOU, but Christians, and Christian arguments in general.

 

[peaceful soul]

originally posted by elwill

[/b]

you actually didn't get my point
i'm not seeing it as immoral even if today , may be today its preferable to not marry girl in this early age because today the life is more complex and girls have some priorities over the marriage as studying for example

I know how you see it, but that is not the entire issue. I am looking outside of your beliefs. Just becasue you see nothing wrong with it, it is not a sign that there is nothing wrong with it. Furthermore, if your prophet saw it as OK, it could still be wrong. Do you understand now? My observation has nothing to do with the complexity of life--only your prophet's actions that you are claiming were OK.

no it's not okey , God prohibit us to make that

Thanks for answering. The point was that these things were normal in some places and cultures, and the people that practiced them thought it was moral. This is basically what your reasoning is when I question your prophet's morality. Those people most likely to be religious too and beleived that their god/gods were moral in allowing them to bury their children and do other things that you would consider immoral.

it dosn't matter with me if it was immoral according to you , which is more important to me that it's not immoral according to allah nor Jesus (pbuh) nor mosas (pbuh)

And this could have been used by those who buried their children alive to justify their actions and beliefs too. In a sense, you are in the same dilema as they are.

How do you know that it was not immoral for Moses and Jesus? Where is you support for this? The Qu'ran and Hadiths, as far as I know, do not have any of Moses' and Jesus' teachings in them for you to know if Moses and Jesus would know that they were immoral.

i know that you didn't , i just gave you an example , you are denying reaction of the prophet for killing someone who encourage his enemy to killing him

Elwill, I am not denying anything. I see that it is you who either don't fully understand what I am trying to show you or that you can't deal with my reasoning and approach to you beliefs.

You can't go around killing people because they encourage others to kill you, especially if you are not 100% sure that they are actually doing it. The burden of proof would be on you to prove it, and even if you could, that person can do that if he wants. The only thing that you can do is to deal with him if he actually comes to kill you personally. This would be direct aggression. If he threaten you directly, then you can deal with him on that basis.

if it was immoral action , so why america wanna to kill binladen , he just a leadership , he just encourage his friends to resist with fight !!!!

bin Laden has taken responsibility for murdering thousands of Americans. We have enough evidence to believe that he did it; therefore, we want to capture him and allow him to go on trial. He refuses to turn himself in and accept his punishment. This is not what Mohammad did. There was no chance of trial for the person that he accused.

no kidding , are you wanna to kill all leaders of islamic nation , it's not what i saying
not every nation offcourse , just the nations which you allready in war with
are you cant get it , this man went to the enemy during the war , the prophet commanded him to be killed during the struggle

OK, but I don't see how that is really any different. You can't just start killing people because they don't like you and encourage others to kill you. As I stated earlier, Mohammad should have been killed by the same standards, then. He recriuted people to kill his enemies. Should'n't his enemies have a justified moral reason for killing him too? One of the big problems I see with Islamic thought in general is that Muslims don't often think of how their justifications will work if the non Muslim were to behave in the same manner. If you did, chances are that you would call the same reasoning as wrong.

yes it isn't a sin from God's view , may be it's a sin from your own view , well , your view dosn't matter

My view does matter. It is just not important to you. But, that doesn't make it wrong.
my point is that you can't proof to me that this act is against God's will

may be you will need some nonmuslims writings about thier view on mohammed (pbuh)

That still doesn't negate the quote I made. In many ways you are denying yourself the opportunity to see my POV by defending your POV. Is there a possibility that you could drop your justification of your prophet for a moment and just see my POV? The problem is that you have adapted a POV based upon Allah saying something is not immoral, but your prophet was the only Arab that heard from Allah. No one could contest your prophet's claims; so, your sense of morality is limited to what you trust your prophet to say. As I said earlier in another post, God does speak to our soul and can convict us that something is wrong. We don't always need someone to dictate to us that something is wrong. I don't beleive in the Qu'ran and don't study it to live by, but I still know that your prophet did some immoral things and Allah condoned them. Your religion does not allow you to see clear enough to give fair criticism of your prophet, which would most likely uncover your eyes from their blindness. The very fact that modern societies can have a conscience that an old practice seems immoral to them should be a hint that it could be. I am not sayin that in all cases, it will be--only that it would be a consideration to examine why this change.

 

[Montalban]

so where is what you claim that the site give the muslims the advice to marry 9yo girls , actually it didn't happened .
the site said that its advisable to not marry in this early age , but if that happened so it's valid from islamic point of view , God not prohibit it nor determined the age of girls for the marriage to be valid
the same as we repond to you in the discussion

It's rather simple. The person asking the question says "I have a NINE YEAR OLD girl... marry ... TWENTY YEAR OLD"
Advice: "That marriage is valid"

You even highlighted it! True that they have reservations but they never say "This is morally wrong", or "Don't do it".

 

[Montalban]

Nein! this would be a complete misinterpretation.It's not that Muhammed does whatever he wants but 'Allah takes it easy'..Allah directly commended those actions which you find immoral and ungodly.The Prophet didn't do what he did because of his desires.However you don't believe ,you should know what we believe.

Muhammed wanted to marry a 'close relative' - a woman already married to one of his kinfolk. His kin objected based on close legal relationship. Muhammed went away, and magically came back the next day with a revelation from al-Lah that it was permitted for him to do this.

What a coincidence!

Muhammed allowed his followers up to four wives. Remarkably al-Lah gave him a special revelation allowing him more

 

[peaceful soul]

Muhammed wanted to marry a 'close relative' - a woman already married to one of his kinfolk. His kin objected based on close legal relationship. Muhammed went away, and magically came back the next day with a revelation from al-Lah that it was permitted for him to do this.

What a coincidence!

Muhammed allowed his followers up to four wives. Remarkably al-Lah gave him a special revelation allowing him more

I had thought of throwing this example to Elwill too. But, beforehand I thought that I would try to get him to try to be more objective, but I am not sure if he is complying. This is a very good example of what he doesn't see. He is using circular reasoning to state that the Qu'ran does not contradict the Qu'ran, therefore, it is acceptable and moral. Of course, Mohammad's actions won't contradict the Qu'ran if his actions are tailored to the Qu'ran. If I make a book that makes everything that I do as normal and moral, then those who believe in what I write are reduced to follow and agree. If they don't agree, they would at least have the presence of mind to question what was written and hopefully allow themselves the chance to look outside of that book. But, this is not what we get from Muslims in general. Their religious indoctrination is a bit too much to overcome at this moment, IMO.

The backbone of their claim is that it is in the Qu'ran, therefore it is moral. They are not taking into account that only Mohammad had any supposed revelation from Allah and that the Muslim community had no way of disproving that Mohammad actually received anything from Allah or that what Mohammad told them was in fact true. Their morality is based on the fact that they believe him, and anything, even if it may cause one's head to turn in disagreement, is still moral because it is in the Qu'ran. It is their choice to believe in this way, but I find it bothersome if they don't want to be more objective about the matter.

 

[Montalban]

You have to have that as an axiom, and work back from there.

When he had sex with a child, that was 'moral'. When he ordered political executions, that was 'moral'. When he over-saw the massacre of a tribe, that was 'moral'.

Always, it's the other people's fault... if there is any fault.

You're right there's no objectivity here.

 

[Jefell]

For those who are following this: I asked Montalban to show where Jesus (whom Christians believe was a god), Paul (whom they believe as an Apostle) or the christian fathers (whom some take heed of their writings and teachings) ever mentioned anything against child marriage. Montalban could not show anything because they is nothing. Jesus did not object to a man marrying younger than 9 when some Jews actually practised that during Jesus time.

To circumvent his weak position, he asked me to provide evidence that Jesus, Paul and others did not write anything against child marriages. If they dont say or write anything against what Montalban claimed as a 'crime' where do you get the writings? You cant get water from squeezing a rock? ROFL


Gosh! If I claim the bible did not say anything about a man on the moon, then I shouldl say you cant find from Genesis to Revelation of a man on the moon.... or even what the early chrsitian fathers said (forgot your non scriptura idea). You expect me to show you something that was not written or said?

... great reasononing by a person who claimed that early christian writers did not know how to respond to Islam... but he can.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do the things Abraham did.

Mohamaad descends from Ishmael.. the son born of sin and thrown out into the desert by the order of GOD.

You are doing the things your own father does.

Marrying 8 year old babies and RAPING them.. just like the pedophile Mohamaad at 52 years old, took a 9 year old and RAPED her.

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Mohammad who lied to his wife so he could RAPE the maid and got caught.. Mohammad who changed the words of Judiasm and called it Islam.. when he found out the Jews wouldnt follow him.. Mohammad started murdering the Jews.. just as you monsters do today.

The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Islam says its good for a 52 year old man to RAPE a 9 year old girl. (its in the Koran..Mohammad did it)

Islam says its good to molest a child that is on her period, in a mosque during ramadaan. (its in the Koran..Mohammad did it)

Islam says its good to lie to your wife to get her out of the house so you can RAPE the maid. (its in the Koran..Mohammad did it)

Islam says its good to murder Jews and anyone that doesnt follow Mohammad. (its in the Koran..Mohammad did it)

ISLAM IS A DISEASE... JESUS is the ONLY CURE.


With Love,
- Jefell

www.GETSHOOK.com

 

[elwill]

Thanks for answering. The point was that these things were normal in some places and cultures, and the people that practiced them thought it was moral.

how did you know that ?
they off course didn't thougt that killing of children is moral practise , no it wasn't moral , may be it was normal not moral

This is basically what your reasoning is when I question your prophet's morality. Those people most likely to be religious too and beleived that their god/gods were moral in allowing them to bury their children and do other things that you would consider immoral.

again , they didn't kill thier children as a moral action or as a requirement of thier beliefs
it was bad practices , no one justifyed it before or after the islam

How do you know that it was not immoral for Moses and Jesus? Where is you support for this? The Qu'ran and Hadiths, as far as I know, do not have any of Moses' and Jesus' teachings in them for you to know if Moses and Jesus would know that they were immoral.

it's silence issue in islam , you who raised this point against islam and against the prophet
and you who supposed to proof for me that it was immoral in the view of God

You can't go around killing people because they encourage others to kill you, especially if you are not 100% sure that they are actually doing it. The burden of proof would be on you to prove it, and even if you could, that person can do that if he wants. The only thing that you can do is to deal with him if he actually comes to kill you personally. This would be direct aggression. If he threaten you directly, then you can deal with him on that basis.

i don't think that you realize the situation of this event , it wasn't personal , there are mant reasons for killing him

My view does matter. It is just not important to you. But, that doesn't make it wrong.
my point is that you can't proof to me that this act is against God's will

you either cant proof it

God does speak to our soul and can convict us that something is wrong. We don't always need someone to dictate to us that something is wrong.

hey , each one think that God speak to his soul , and believe me , not all of them christians

 

[elwill]

It's rather simple. The person asking the question says "I have a NINE YEAR OLD girl... marry ... TWENTY YEAR OLD"
Advice: "That marriage is valid"

yes it's valid from God's view in islam , we alwayes tell you that

You even highlighted it! True that they have reservations but they never say "This is morally wrong", or "Don't do it".

well , it's not immoral act from islamic point of view
what's immoral and illegal in islam is commiting sex without marriage , but the marriage isn't immoral act even if the girl in this early age

 

[français]

Interestingly Thomas Aquinas.....

Funny you mention him. If you study his life, you will see that he had a deep fascination of Islam and a major appreciation for it. He even quoted from some Islamic scholars sometimes!

 

[Montalban]

yes it's valid from God's view in islam , we alwayes tell you that

*sigh* your objection was that the site didn't say that.

It did. Now you agree with it, anyway

Again you show you have no point.

well , it's not immoral act from islamic point of view

No kidding. THat's the point of arguing against Islam!

what's immoral and illegal in islam is commiting sex without marriage , but the marriage isn't immoral act even if the girl in this early age

Which leads me back to what was the point of your objection?

 

[Montalban]

Funny you mention him. If you study his life, you will see that he had a deep fascination of Islam and a major appreciation for it. He even quoted from some Islamic scholars sometimes!

Great. What else is new with Islamic apologetics?

 

[peaceful soul]

originally posted by elwill

how did you know that ?

I have a conscience that tells me that. Furthermore, the Bible shows me that too.

they off course didn't thougt that killing of children is moral practise , no it wasn't moral , may be it was normal not moral

Those people that sacrificed their children and buried them were just as ignorant as Muslims were when they thought it was OK to marry many wives. These people did believe that their children's burial somehow pleased their gods. They didn't do it just because they wanted to. Likewise, Mohammad thought that marrying many wives was OK since it was normal at that time. Culture norms are not necessarily moral acts. People often follow crowds because they were raised to believe and act according their cultures. To them, such things seem normal, and as a result, they become a moral value in most cases. Some do question such acts, but the peer pressure and cultural pressure normally makes it difficult to stop practicing. They teach their kids the same, and the beat goes on.

again , they didn't kill thier children as a moral action or as a requirement of thier beliefs
it was bad practices ,

In their minds, it was moral; otherwise why did they do it? The reason that you believe that you can marry more than one wife at the same time is because you have come to believe that it is moral. Why? Mainly because this was already a common practice in Arabia and that your prophet did it too. That is where you get a portion of your value system from. Therefore, your moral code is as such. That should not be so difficult to understand, elwill.

no one justifyed it before or after the islam

That would not be true. People still did it and accepted it is moral. I am sure that some people still do it today, most likely in more remote places in the world where they can go undetected.

it's silence issue in islam ,

Regardless, it is an option for people to practice, which would make it immoral by today's standards. You cannot get around that. Furthermore, all it would take is a movement to make this normative in Islam and it could then become a normative practice. The bottom line is that this can become a normal practice. The door is always open for that possibility. Will you deny that?

you who raised this point against islam and against the prophet
and you who supposed to proof for me that it was immoral in the view of God

One of the greatest mistakes that Muslims make is to think of those who disagree with some aspects of Islam as an attacker or that they don't have any knowledge to know understand Islam. Since you are constantly on the defense about your religion, it becomes very difficult for you to see any objective POV. There is no reason to protect your prophet. Let his actions speak for himself. Just because you believe that he is from Allah doesn't give him any immunity to be judged by the human mind and spirit. In some cases, I can see that wrong is wrong without reading your holy books or any holy book.

If we simply look at the Qur'an, Sunnah and Hadiths alone, then we can probably conclude that all actions of Mohammad are moral, but then again, many of us non Muslims would have to turn off our brains and stop listening to our conscience in order to make Mohammad's actions as moral. God gives us a sence of morality that we can make judgments on things. The problem is that if you are indoctrinated with religion, you can easily loose that moral filter that God gave you. Your actions then become normal to you, and you don't give much thought to them again. You just become a propagator of these actions.

i don't think that you realize the situation of this event , it wasn't personal , there are mant reasons for killing him

I think that you should then provide a more reasonable explanation, because the one that you have given is not good.

you either cant proof it

I think so. God gives me a conscience to realize that it is. That is all that I really leave. I can also reason it through reason and intellect if necessary as I have already started to do. I could likewise say that you can't prove the opposite.

hey , each one think that God speak to his soul , and believe me , not all of them christians

That is true, but not everyone will allow God to minister to their spirits either. Whether you believe it or not, God is always working on all of us in some way. Only those who have submitted to Jesus as their Lord can obey God's calling properly. God can try to get through to everyone, but many resist Him because their religion and personal philosophies are more important to keep than what He is saying to them. Being indoctrinated with religion usually prevents this process. It is not until you start to step back from religious indoctrination and rituals that you can start to see what God is saying to you. God will not prevent you from believing what you want. He will not force you to see things His way. Elwill, He will not stop you from believing that Mohammad never did immoral things either. It is your choice to prevent yourself from seeing this as a possibility and a reality, IMO.

I am still waiting to see if you can confess that some of Mohammad's
actions were immoral, or if you will continue to justify everything in some way.