Should molesters be killed?

[Khameo]

Although I agree with you that it doesn't deserve death - I don't believe any crime does - do you not think there's a case to be made that raping a child will frequently cause more long-term harm than raping an adult? I'm just speculating.

I'd think that a child who doesn't actually know what's happening is going to be less traumatized than an adult who does.

 

[GeratTzedek]

I think idiots who have never been abused should shut up because they don't know what they are talking about.

 

[TheReasoner]

I'd think that a child who doesn't actually know what's happening is going to be less traumatized than an adult who does.

You weren't abused, were you? Nor have you worked with abuse victims I suppose?

So this opinion of yours... It is rather weakly founded. And let me tell you, it is horribly horribly wrong.

 

[quatona]

I'd think that a child who doesn't actually know what's happening is going to be less traumatized than an adult who does.

Considering how particularly strong impact those very encounters have on us that we have had during the time when we didn´t yet "actually know what was happening" I don´t see any psychological basis for your conclusion.

 

[quatona]

I think idiots who have never been abused should shut up because they don't know what they are talking about.

Whilst I think a better way of dealing with perceived ignorance is providing educational information, rather than attacking the person.

 

[TheReasoner]

Whilst I think a better way of dealing with perceived ignorance is providing educational information, rather than attacking the person.

Yes. But if you have been through the hell that is the time after an abused childhood it is unbelievably hard not to react this strongly or significantly stronger to such ignorance.

Some do get completely completely free from that hell. But not all do. And even the ones who do often react like that. Which I understand perfectly well.

So I agree with what you're saying. It's better to approach such ignorance with education and not attacks. Yet it can be very hard to face that ignorance without a significant emotional response.

 

[quatona]

Yes. But if you have been through the hell that is the time after an abused childhood it is unbelievably hard not to react this strongly or significantly stronger to such ignorance.

I didn´t mean to say that discussing unemotionally was easy.
I see how it is harder the more emotionally affected one is. I see how having been abused is likely to make one strongly emotionally affected when it comes to the subject.

All I am saying is: If you have an important point to make (and I do think this point is important) arguing from emotion and attacking the person is ineffective and counterproductive to your goals.

Some do get completely completely free from that hell. But not all do. And even the ones who do often react like that. Which I understand perfectly well.

It´s not like I don´t understand it. However, I also understand how being personally attacked based on emotional response is unlikely to change one´s opinions, or even only making one open to reconsider.

So I agree with what you're saying. It's better to approach such ignorance with education and not attacks. Yet it can be very hard to face that ignorance without a significant emotional response.

I definitely know what you are talking about. It is hard indeed. I guess we all encounter those moments when we are about to type in emotional outrage. I guess most of have done it every now and then.
I just hate to see valid points going down the drain due to poor discussion habits.

Btw. The post I responded to was not only "without a significant emotional response" - the personal attack was all it consisted of.

 

[TheReasoner]

I didn´t mean to say that discussing unemotionally was easy.
I see how it is harder the more emotionally affected one is. I see how having been abused is likely to make one strongly emotionally affected when it comes to the subject.

All I am saying is: If you have an important point to make (and I do think this point is important) arguing from emotion and attacking the person is ineffective and counterproductive to your goals.

It´s not like I don´t understand it. However, I also understand how being personally attacked based on emotional response is unlikely to change one´s opinions, or even only making one open to reconsider.

I definitely know what you are talking about. It is hard indeed. I guess we all encounter those moments when we are about to type in emotional outrage. I guess most of have done it every now and then.
I just hate to see valid points going down the drain due to poor discussion habits.

Btw. The post I responded to was not only "without a significant emotional response" - the personal attack was all it consisted of.

You know, I think we agree
In fact - reps for the bold parts.

 

[Kroger99]

Research suggests pedophiles and child molesters don't get rehabilitated. Should they be killed for their indiscretions?

I have no problem killing repeat offenders and some first time offenders.

 

[TheReasoner]

I have no problem killing repeat offenders and some first time offenders.

Would Jesus kill them?

 

[GeratTzedek]

Whilst I think a better way of dealing with perceived ignorance is providing educational information, rather than attacking the person.

First, compared to what I wanted to say and do, I was incredibly restrained and kind.

Second, sometimes a person like this needs a one on one encounter with the raw damage left behind in the person, not cool intellectual information. The answer to his mistake is not information, it is the people harmed by molestation.

 

[Khameo]

I'm talking about the majority of cases of pedophilia ,where children are actually groomed for sex. Not all pedophiles put on their rape-hat and drive their ice-cream van down to the local park when they're horny. They like to twist things so that they can molest the same kids over and over without them doing anything.
Obviously if there's very violent abuse or penetration that can easily be traumatic, but that is not all cases. Sexual activity can seem innocuous to a child who doesn't know what it is. Only later will they realize the gravity of what's going on.

I'd think it just as offensive, however, to claim that being raped as a child is worse than being raped as an adult. Some people can cope better than others. Claiming the moral high ground just because you were raped is pathetic. There are too many people who would happily embrace a 'victim' mentality and exploit it in order to misdirect all their failings and shortcomings onto the fact that they were raped years and years ago. Get over yourselves. At least you aren't dead or maimed.

 

[GeratTzedek]

Would Jesus kill them?

Yes. In fact, Jesus thought that capital punishment was too good for them. In Matthew 18:6 he says of those who harm little children it would be better for them if they had a millstone tied around their necks and they were cast into the sea than what G-d has in store for them.

 

[Khameo]

u

Yes. In fact, Jesus thought that capital punishment was too good for them. In Matthew 18:6 he says of those who harm little children it would be better for them if they had a millstone tied around their necks and they were cast into the sea than what G-d has in store for them.

Lawl.
So much for unconditional love.

 

[GeratTzedek]

You think unconditional love means that people should not be held accountable for their actions? Do you know what happens to people when you let them do whatever they wish? They become spoiled rotten brats. How is that loving? The most loving thing you can do for a person is say, "You are a human being and not an animal, and you are responsible for the choices you make."

 

[GeratTzedek]

I'm talking about the majority of cases of pedophilia ,where children are actually groomed for sex. Not all pedophiles put on their rape-hat and drive their ice-cream van down to the local park when they're horny. They like to twist things so that they can molest the same kids over and over without them doing anything.
Obviously if there's very violent abuse or penetration that can easily be traumatic, but that is not all cases. Sexual activity can seem innocuous to a child who doesn't know what it is. Only later will they realize the gravity of what's going on.

I'd think it just as offensive, however, to claim that being raped as a child is worse than being raped as an adult. Some people can cope better than others. Claiming the moral high ground just because you were raped is pathetic. There are too many people who would happily embrace a 'victim' mentality and exploit it in order to misdirect all their failings and shortcomings onto the fact that they were raped years and years ago. Get over yourselves. At least you aren't dead or maimed.

There is no way I can perceive this as anything other than closet excuse-making. I can't say any of the things going through my head, because I would get permanently kicked out off this board. All I can say is, regardless of how many you fool, you are not fooling me.

 

[Khameo]

You think unconditional love means that people should not be held accountable for their actions? Do you know what happens to people when you let them do whatever they wish? They become spoiled rotten brats. How is that loving? The most loving thing you can do for a person is say, "You are a human being and not an animal, and you are responsible for the choices you make."

You have an incorrect definition, then.

Unconditional love would mean to love without condition.

That means that god needs to show love towards every rapist and murderer, as well as every philanthropist and saint.

What that love entails has nothing to do with it.

 

[GeratTzedek]

No, I know what unconditional means. It is you that does not know what love is.

 

[Khameo]

There is no way I can perceive this as anything other than closet excuse-making. I can't say any of the things going through my head, because I would get permanently kicked out off this board. All I can say is, regardless of how many you fool, you are not fooling me.

If I was going to lie, I'd do it for my own personal benefit.

Showing that I hold views that many people find reprehensible benefits me nothing.

I don't want you to agree with me.

 

[Khameo]

No, I know what unconditional means. It is you that does not know what love is.

So, you're going to adopt the stance that 'love means punishment, so god can punish you for all eternity because he loves you'.

Please, do not be so facetious.