• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Christians: Here's your chance...

True_Blue

Non-denominational, literalist YEC Christian
Mar 4, 2004
1,948
54
46
California
✟2,444.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Actually, the Hebrew word used is the generic form of "man", that means "men" generically (which included females). But ultimately it doesn't really matter for the points made.



And yet you are trying to claim that, despite the fact we have no evidence of sexual immorality on those cities, that they were also destroyed for homosexuality. This is yet another reason why your interpretation for Sodom, beyond not agreeing with the Bible, fails.

That is the traditional explanation. And though it doesn't matter for my claims, there are a number of Bible Scholars who believe this traditional idea cannot be supported by facts.

Regardless, while Genesis and Leviticus are thought by many to have been written at the same time, they were both written by Moses, who lives some 200 years after Lot. Leviticus was supposedly written after Moses brought the 10 Commandments down from the mountain. Trying to claim that Lot was subject to the laws of Leviticus would be like saying the Founding Fathers of the US were subject to the laws of today because some people today have written history books of the Revolution.

Still doesn't matter, though I don't think the Bible ever mentions that Lot did not have sons. Rather we know of Lot's daughters only because 1) they were offered to the mob and 2) they seduced their father. It still doesn't counter the point, if Lot knew these people were homosexual why did he offer his daughters. If they were truly homosexual Lot would have known the crowd would have had no interest in his daughters.

You might also want to look at Judges 19 for a comparison story. Basically the story is roughly the same as Sodom except 1) the man was a traveler and 2) it occurred in Israel (in Ephraim in the town of Gibeah). Like Sodom, the men of the town surrounded the house and cried out to bring the traveler out that they might have sex with him. Like Sodom, the owner of the house offered his virgin daughter to the crowd. Like Sodom, they would not listen to the man. Unlike Sodom, the traveler's concubine was sent out to the crowd, whom the crowd then abused all night long, after which she died of the abuse.

This story helps reinforce the point these people didn't want sex to gratify some homosexual urge, rather it was to hurt the stranger in town. They rejected the daughter, they were not out to hurt the man who lived in their town, but accepted the concubine, which by abusing her they were still getting their point across that the traveler was not welcome.

So people aren't responsible for their actions when they are drunk?

I never claimed it didn't. I merely claimed that the Bible does not support the idea that Sodom was destroyed for homosexuality. There are far too many facts that one has to ignore to believe that. Rather, the raping of men in this time frame (which we find from the history of the area) was meant to emasculate men, to send a message that their worth was no higher than that of a woman. Since women were typically considered property at this time frame, the rape of a man sent the message that he was no better than a slave.

Actually, the language of the Bible is hardly clear. Since you chose Leviticus, it literally says "and with a male you shall not lay in the bed (layings) of a woman". From the way it is written it seems far more likely to point to adultery with another man that homosexuality as we know it. Further, of the various death penalty sins in Leviticus, all are replicated in Deuteronomy except homosexuality (if we follow your belief). The death penalty crime that would seems like it should match is only for participating in pagan sex acts (many Bibles define it as sex with a temple prostitute). From the context, especially the odd phrasing in Leviticus, it looks like Leviticus is actually talking about the Pagan male sex acts and not all homosexuality.

In the New Testament, Romans 1 is clearly talking of people who reject God for idols, and "because of this" (Romans 1:26) do homosexual acts.

Last, in the Greece that Paul grew up in, there were six different words that were clearly understood to mean "homosexual". Rather than using one of those commonly understood words, that everyone would have understood clearly meant homosexuality, Paul appears to have invented his own word, and the word after Paul was never frequently used. We have no real idea what Paul meant, other than it is a compound word of the words "man" and "bed". Early translations typically defined this word as "masturbator", it is only in the last 500 years or so (the time of the translation of the King James version) that it was interpreted as homosexual.

I'm not going to claim if homosexual is condemned by the Bible or not, it doesn't really matter to me. But homosexuality is not clearly condemned by the Bible, especially when it is mentioned 6 times and sinful heterosexual sex is listed over 350 times. Or are you stating that God wanted people to find the loopholes (such as having multiple concubines) to have extra heterosexual sex.

To say that homosexuality is not condemned in the Bible always requires hypertechnical linguistic acrobatics, such as what you've posted above. To say that homosexuality is condemned simply requires reading what the Bible says and accepting it. For about 10 years, I engaged in the same kind of bad faith interpretation over the Bible's strong admonition against interest and getting into debt. I ended up losing $30,000 or so because I fallaciously thought I make a profit by borrowing money at a low interest rate and investing it in the stock market. I realized I was wrong when I learned about something called the "constant liquidity trap." I also fallaciously thought our economic system requires large amounts of debt, but it does not--a capitalist system would actually function much, much better if people focused on equity rather than debt. So from personal experience, I learned never to disingenuously interpret the Bible in the way I want it to be interpreted. The words of the Bible are the words of God, and they should be deeply respected.
 
Upvote 0

beechy

Senior Veteran
Mar 24, 2005
3,235
264
✟27,390.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
In Relationship
God destroyed Sodom because it was "wicked," but without precisely defining whether he's referring to homosexual gang rape specifically or homosexual conduct in general. Recall that Abraham negotiated with God and got him to agree that if only 10 righteous people were in Sodom, God would not destroy the city. Do you think it's more plausible that every adult save 9 engaged in gang rape, or that every adult save 9 engaged in homosexual/sexually immoral conduct? Also, compare with the verse that "men may lot lie with a man as one lies with a woman" in Leviticus. No mention of gang rape there. Regardless, when it comes to interpreting scripture, it's usually best to resolve any uncertainty in a way that is not in your own favor. That means resolving uncertainty against homosexual conduct because of the huge risk involved in being wrong. Today, we don't have fire and brimstone, but we have an extremely elegantly designed little virus called HIV. Barack Obama's pastor thinks it was designed by the CIA or some US government agency to kill black people. I think the designer was supernatural (perhaps Satan) and designed to kill people who use drugs and have sex with lots and lots of people. As a disclaimer, God views all sexual misconduct as sin, meaning that I am just as culpable because I've looked at pornography as any homosexual with a 1000 sexual partners.
Dude, stop with the AIDS thing already -- it's a ridiculous argument. The flu pandemic of 1918-1919 killed more people in those two years than HIV has killed EVER -- and by more, I mean a greater number of people, not a greater percentage of 1918's smaller world population.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TheManeki
Upvote 0

TheManeki

Christian Humanist
Jun 5, 2007
3,376
544
Visit site
✟28,834.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Frankly, True_Blue, it still sounds like you have problems with Biblical interpretations.

Have you tried things like the Wesleyan quadrilateral? It suggests incorporating things like reason and experience into your interpretation. I suggest this because, as people here have pointed out, your interpretation on homosexuality blatantly ignores reality.
 
  • Like
Reactions: beechy
Upvote 0

Maren

Veteran
Oct 20, 2007
8,709
1,659
✟72,368.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Private
To say that homosexuality is not condemned in the Bible always requires hypertechnical linguistic acrobatics, such as what you've posted above.

Actually, no. The words of the Bible are the words of the Bible and to read them as homosexuality requires "hypertechnical linguistic acrobatics". The only reason you don't see this is because you are used to a traditional English translation that used those acrobatics. In fact, using the original languages (Hebrew and Greek) it is not clear at all.

This is little different than those who thought the Bible condemned a mixing of the races, they depended on a traditional interpretation that they felt was plain in the reading of the Bible. Today, however, we see that they were using "acrobatics" to get their interpretation, not to mention logical fallacies, to support their claims. It is little different with homosexuality.


To say that homosexuality is condemned simply requires reading what the Bible says and accepting it. For about 10 years, I engaged in the same kind of bad faith interpretation over the Bible's strong admonition against interest and getting into debt. I ended up losing $30,000 or so because I fallaciously thought I make a profit by borrowing money at a low interest rate and investing it in the stock market. I realized I was wrong when I learned about something called the "constant liquidity trap." I also fallaciously thought our economic system requires large amounts of debt, but it does not--a capitalist system would actually function much, much better if people focused on equity rather than debt. So from personal experience, I learned never to disingenuously interpret the Bible in the way I want it to be interpreted. The words of the Bible are the words of God, and they should be deeply respected.

And this has what to do with Sodom, much less the OP? The fact is, you haven't provided any claims of how homosexuality would harm marriage other than that you believe "the Bible says that homosexuality is wrong."
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheManeki
Upvote 0

True_Blue

Non-denominational, literalist YEC Christian
Mar 4, 2004
1,948
54
46
California
✟2,444.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Frankly, True_Blue, it still sounds like you have problems with Biblical interpretations.

Have you tried things like the Wesleyan quadrilateral? It suggests incorporating things like reason and experience into your interpretation. I suggest this because, as people here have pointed out, your interpretation on homosexuality blatantly ignores reality.

I just looked up the Wesleyan quadrilateral just now, and it turns out I invented something very similar independently. The schema I use has five parts:
1. Bible
2. Conscience
3. Reason/philosophy
4. Godly people
5. Messages from spiritual beings

Trust me--I'm not ignoring reality when it comes to the dangers of homosexual conduct, or promiscuous heterosexual conduct for that matter.
 
Upvote 0

True_Blue

Non-denominational, literalist YEC Christian
Mar 4, 2004
1,948
54
46
California
✟2,444.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Actually, no. The words of the Bible are the words of the Bible and to read them as homosexuality requires "hypertechnical linguistic acrobatics". The only reason you don't see this is because you are used to a traditional English translation that used those acrobatics. In fact, using the original languages (Hebrew and Greek) it is not clear at all.

This is little different than those who thought the Bible condemned a mixing of the races, they depended on a traditional interpretation that they felt was plain in the reading of the Bible. Today, however, we see that they were using "acrobatics" to get their interpretation, not to mention logical fallacies, to support their claims. It is little different with homosexuality.

And this has what to do with Sodom, much less the OP? The fact is, you haven't provided any claims of how homosexuality would harm marriage other than that you believe "the Bible says that homosexuality is wrong."

Maren, I don't speak Hebrew or Aramaic, and I suspect you don't either, so there's no point in injecting original language into the debate. If you do speak Hebrew or Aramaic, or have at least a masters degree in those languages, then, sure, let's talk about the original languages. Otherwise, let's stick with English. If you won't read the English Bible in good faith, you won't read the original language Bible in good faith either. In previous studies on verses in the original language, I've invariably found that the language is more explicit and more clear than the English version, and I strongly suspect that the same will be true in this discussion as well.

I'm glad you brought up the attempt by southerners to manipulate the Bible to support enslaving blacks. It's a perfect example of linguistic acrobatics. To my knowledge, the Bible doesn't mention racial characteristics anywhere.

When it says in Romans, "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." Even in English, this is clear language. The reality is that today, homosexuals in San Francisco around 2000 acquired HIV at a rate of 2.2% per year. If my child wants to put her hand on the oven door, I'm going to tell her no and take her away. If she persists, I might allow her to get burned so that she learns not to do it. AIDS is not even the worst consequence of homosexual conduct--separation from God is. I care far more about the spiritual and physical health of homosexuals than I do about the institution of marriage. I oppose gay marriage because it is just another deviation from the one man and one woman construct that is most healthy for men, women, and children in families. But from your perspective, I would be far more concerned about my relationship with God than anything else. If you and your partner are or have been promiscuous, that would be another, lesser cause of concern. To have a relationship with God, you have to be willing to sublimate your own desires for God's desires. That is really hard--I struggle with that every single day. I constantly battle between what I want and what God wants in many different aspects of my life. If you do become a Christian, you will continue to struggle against your desire for other women, just as I continually struggle against my desire for women other than my wife. The struggle against sin is part and parcel of the human experience, but you can't experience the love of God in your life unless you decide to struggle against sin.
 
Upvote 0

beechy

Senior Veteran
Mar 24, 2005
3,235
264
✟27,390.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
In Relationship
I just looked up the Wesleyan quadrilateral just now, and it turns out I invented something very similar independently. The schema I use has five parts:
1. Bible
2. Conscience
3. Reason/philosophy
4. Godly people
5. Messages from spiritual beings

Trust me--I'm not ignoring reality when it comes to the dangers of homosexual conduct, or promiscuous heterosexual conduct for that matter.
Yes, unprotected sex puts you at risk for contracting a sexually transmitted disease, whether you're gay or straight. No one is denying that. What does that have to do with why you believe homosexuality is bad?
 
Upvote 0

TheManeki

Christian Humanist
Jun 5, 2007
3,376
544
Visit site
✟28,834.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I just looked up the Wesleyan quadrilateral just now, and it turns out I invented something very similar independently. The schema I use has five parts:
1. Bible
2. Conscience
3. Reason/philosophy
4. Godly people
5. Messages from spiritual beings

Trust me--I'm not ignoring reality when it comes to the dangers of homosexual conduct, or promiscuous heterosexual conduct for that matter.

Then please present some of your peer-reviewed scientific evidence. PM me, and I will give you my email address to send journal articles to and then we can discuss them here.
 
Upvote 0

PetersKeys

Traditionalist Catholic , Paleo-conservative
Mar 4, 2008
536
36
43
✟15,876.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
This thread is directed at those christians who say that "allowing same-sex marriage will threaten the institution of marriage". Myself and others have practically begged for an explanation on this, and now you have your chance to spill it. Can any of you tell us how allowing same-sex marriages to become legal will damage family structure, institution, or otherwise "unravel the moral fabric of society"?

Ill have a go at this one.

The greatest effect it will have is on children and marriage becoming less sacred. The less sacred marriage becomes the more divorces will happen. We can see this already. Marriage was much more sacred in the early 1900s than it is now. Look at the divorce and abuse rates. Look at the crime rates.

Adding same sex marriage will only contribute to this downfall of marriage. Same Sex marriage marriage is a product of moral relativism(if it feels right do it) and modernism. Both these two things have led to a great downfall in society since people don't have any moral backbone to go on anymore. The Church declared modernism the "sum of all heresies". More children will be without mothers, which will effect their childhood. And marriage will be viewed as something anyone can walk into , no matter what. If we downgrade our view and value of marriage we downgrade the scaredness and specialness that marriage is suppossed to have. There will be more "60 day marriages" like Britney spears had where people just treat marriage like a joke.
 
Upvote 0

Gremlins

Regular Member
Feb 2, 2008
1,497
170
✟25,038.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
In Relationship
Ill have a go at this one.

The greatest effect it will have is on children and marriage becoming less sacred. The less sacred marriage becomes the more divorces will happen. We can see this already. Marriage was much more sacred in the early 1900s than it is now. Look at the divorce and abuse rates. Look at the crime rates.

Adding same sex marriage will only contribute to this downfall of marriage. Same Sex marriage marriage is a product of moral relativism(if it feels right do it) and modernism. Both these two things have led to a great downfall in society since people don't have any moral backbone to go on anymore. The Church declared modernism the "sum of all heresies". More children will be without mothers, which will effect their childhood. And marriage will be viewed as something anyone can walk into , no matter what. If we downgrade our view and value of marriage we downgrade the scaredness and specialness that marriage is suppossed to have. There will be more "60 day marriages" like Britney spears had where people just treat marriage like a joke.
So by allowing people to enter into long term, bonding unions, we're discouraging people from entering into long term, binding unions? Yikes.
 
Upvote 0

True_Blue

Non-denominational, literalist YEC Christian
Mar 4, 2004
1,948
54
46
California
✟2,444.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Yes, unprotected sex puts you at risk for contracting a sexually transmitted disease, whether you're gay or straight. No one is denying that. What does that have to do with why you believe homosexuality is bad?

Ok, I will apply my personal five-step system for judging right from wrong to homosexuality:

1. The Bible mentions homosexuality 11-12 times, all in quite negative terms, and nowhere does the Bible give a positive affirmative of homosexual conduct.
2. While I have no direct homosexual experience, if I see 2 girls kissing on TV, for example, my conscience is hurt if I don't change the channel.
3. Homosexuality is incredibly addictive, it causes a person to become unwise in their sexual conduct, it helps spread loathsome diseases, it put separates a person from God, it produces no children, it changes a person's attitudes and demeanor in subtle ways, etc.
4. The people I know and trust who are close to God all disapprove of homosexuality in the strongest of terms, including my parents, my mentor, my closest friends.
5. I have received a divine message telling me not to engage in premarital sex, but not homosexuality specifically.
 
Upvote 0

TheManeki

Christian Humanist
Jun 5, 2007
3,376
544
Visit site
✟28,834.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Ok, I will apply my personal five-step system for judging right from wrong to homosexuality:

1. The Bible mentions homosexuality 11-12 times, all in quite negative terms, and nowhere does the Bible give a positive affirmative of homosexual conduct.
2. While I have no direct homosexual experience, if I see 2 girls kissing on TV, for example, my conscience is hurt if I don't change the channel.
3. Homosexuality is incredibly addictive, it causes a person to become unwise in their sexual conduct, it helps spread loathsome diseases, it put separates a person from God, it produces no children, it changes a person's attitudes and demeanor in subtle ways, etc.
4. The people I know and trust who are close to God all disapprove of homosexuality in the strongest of terms, including my parents, my mentor, my closest friends.
5. I have received a divine message telling me not to engage in premarital sex, but not homosexuality specifically.

I'm still waiting for the peer-reviewed scientific evidence I asked for earlier. All of the above may work for you personally, but you need something a little more objective to persuade others that it works for them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Molal
Upvote 0

True_Blue

Non-denominational, literalist YEC Christian
Mar 4, 2004
1,948
54
46
California
✟2,444.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
I'm still waiting for the peer-reviewed scientific evidence I asked for earlier. All of the above may work for you personally, but you need something a little more objective to persuade others that it works for them.

Uh...TheManeki, why on earth does one need "peer-reviewed scientific evidence" to determine right from wrong? The whole point of the human experience is for us to figure out what right and wrong is and act accordingly. No one can rely on anyone else to decide for them what right and wrong are. I certainly don't look to college professors for right and wrong. I don't look for moral answers in scientific journals, and neither should anyone else, including scientists, for that matter. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, so perhaps you might clarify.
 
Upvote 0

TheManeki

Christian Humanist
Jun 5, 2007
3,376
544
Visit site
✟28,834.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Uh...TheManeki, why on earth does one need "peer-reviewed scientific evidence" to determine right from wrong? The whole point of the human experience is for us to figure out what right and wrong is and act accordingly. No one can rely on anyone else to decide for them what right and wrong are. I certainly don't look to college professors for right and wrong. I don't look for moral answers in scientific journals, and neither should anyone else, including scientists, for that matter. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, so perhaps you might clarify.

Your profile says you wish to be a lawyer, so I'll try to couch things in those terms.

You are trying to prove that homosexuality is wrong to Christians and non-Christians. The Christians are looking at the same Bible passages as you and coming away with a different interpretation. The non-Christians do not accept the validity of Bible-based arguments. Both of these reasons limit the usefulness of Bible-based arguments alone to convince others you are correct.

If you truly wish to persuade others, you're going to have to bring in an outside source. An easy way to prove homosexuality is wrong is to have an expert scientific witness testify for you -- in this case, by a journal article -- to show there is proven harm from being gay or lesbian. After all, God wouldn't just arbitrarily ban something that does no harm, would he?

Providing a journal article would serve multiple purposes. First, it would show us you actually read the article, instead of copying a summary from someone who didn't understand it in the first place (much like you did with the Van de Ven article). Secondly, it would allow us to read the article and "cross examine" the witness.

If you're truly sure of your position, this shouldn't be a problem for you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Paulos23
Upvote 0
Oct 7, 2005
2,182
44
✟2,829.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
China's strict policy for single male babies has created so many single Chinese men who wouldn't turn to homosexual marriage but would visit women prostitution city outlets and growing adult toy shops to satisfy themselves. Bible prohecy does not say that many would become homosexual or even bisexual. So judging by China's example, the gay threat is small. But the greatest threat is AIDs and other diseases invisible to the naked eye and we pray that science is working hard to fight these diseases. I pray that Jesus will return to prevent the world becoming a humanless place for the surviving animals and bugs.
:prayer::cool:
 
Upvote 0

MasterOfKrikkit

Regular Member
Feb 1, 2008
673
117
USA
✟23,935.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
3. Homosexuality is incredibly addictive, it causes a person to become unwise in their sexual conduct, it helps spread loathsome diseases, it put separates a person from God, it produces no children, it changes a person's attitudes and demeanor in subtle ways, etc.

And this is "reason/philosophy"? That explains a lot about your view of "reason", given that everything in this list is either conjecture or just poor logic ("it helps spread loathsome diseases" -- so does hetero sex and, for that matter, sneezing). And the rest of your numbered list just displays massive amounts of confirmation bias.

Regardless, I notice you still haven't addressed the point that Ezekiel discusses the sins of Sodom quite explicitly without mentioning homosexuality. Also, if a man can't lie with another man, does that mean lesbians can get married?

And, furthermore, if we're banning the biblically condemned from marriage, will you be starting a partition to require married persons never to wear polyester-cotton clothing? Will marriages be declared null and void if clam chowder is served at the reception? Why is homosexuality singled out?
 
Upvote 0

cantata

Queer non-theist, with added jam.
Feb 20, 2007
6,215
683
38
Oxford, UK
✟32,193.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
So by allowing people to enter into long term, bonding unions, we're discouraging people from entering into long term, binding unions? Yikes.

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Gremlins again."

:)
 
Upvote 0

WatersMoon110

To See with Eyes Unclouded by Hate
May 30, 2007
4,738
266
42
Ohio
✟28,755.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Ill have a go at this one.

The greatest effect it will have is on children and marriage becoming less sacred. The less sacred marriage becomes the more divorces will happen. We can see this already. Marriage was much more sacred in the early 1900s than it is now. Look at the divorce and abuse rates. Look at the crime rates.

Adding same sex marriage will only contribute to this downfall of marriage. Same Sex marriage marriage is a product of moral relativism(if it feels right do it) and modernism. Both these two things have led to a great downfall in society since people don't have any moral backbone to go on anymore. The Church declared modernism the "sum of all heresies". More children will be without mothers, which will effect their childhood. And marriage will be viewed as something anyone can walk into , no matter what. If we downgrade our view and value of marriage we downgrade the scaredness and specialness that marriage is suppossed to have. There will be more "60 day marriages" like Britney spears had where people just treat marriage like a joke.
So...instead of trying to make "non-sacred" heterosexual marriages illegal, you want to make sure that homosexuals (who might view marriage as sacred already) can't get married?

It would be like if my house never got clean, and I said that to solve this problem illegal immigrants shouldn't be allowed to buy houses. You are blaming a problem that already exists on people who don't even have anything to do with that problem.

If keeping Gay Marriage illegal would make str8 marriage more "sacred" why are there already so many marriages that you don't consider "sacred" going on?

Also "if it feels right do it" is the definition of hedonism. Moral Relativism is when everyone decides what is moral for themself, and allow others to decide what is moral for themselves.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

TheManeki

Christian Humanist
Jun 5, 2007
3,376
544
Visit site
✟28,834.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Ill have a go at this one.

The greatest effect it will have is on children and marriage becoming less sacred. The less sacred marriage becomes the more divorces will happen. We can see this already. Marriage was much more sacred in the early 1900s than it is now. Look at the divorce and abuse rates. Look at the crime rates.

Wow. So, letting people who want to get married get married will hurt marriage. Riiight. I notice that not only do you not have any evidence of this potential harm, but you're a little short on specifics, which leads me to believe this is merely a product of your prejudices.

Peter, back at the beginning of this thread I was wondering if anyone would be able to avoid sounding like the segregationists who tried to stop interracial marriages. I hate to break it to you, but you sound just like they did. Go back and learn from the mistakes of the past, instead of repeating them.

Adding same sex marriage will only contribute to this downfall of marriage. Same Sex marriage marriage is a product of moral relativism(if it feels right do it) and modernism. Both these two things have led to a great downfall in society since people don't have any moral backbone to go on anymore. The Church declared modernism the "sum of all heresies". More children will be without mothers, which will effect their childhood. And marriage will be viewed as something anyone can walk into , no matter what. If we downgrade our view and value of marriage we downgrade the scaredness and specialness that marriage is suppossed to have. There will be more "60 day marriages" like Britney spears had where people just treat marriage like a joke.
Does anyone else ever wonder why there are far more groups to oppose same-sex marriage than there are to oppose divorce? Where are the people lobbying for "defense of marriage" laws and constitutional amendments to ban divorce?
 
  • Like
Reactions: WatersMoon110
Upvote 0