The Miracle of Evolution

SpyridonOCA

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In his 1991 "Wonderful Life," which is a sort of companion to "Full House," Gould used the example of the Cambrian explosion of species found in the fossils of the Burgess Shale to demonstrate that "contingency" -- accident, happenstance, the particular way that events unfold -- plays a central role in determining the fate of species. Rewind the tape of events to play evolution out once more, Gould argues, and the odds are against anything like Homo sapiens developing. We're here because we're here -- not because we had to be here.
http://www.salon.com/weekly/interview960923.html

Given the unlikelihood of our species to have come into existence, one can properly define it as a miracle, albeit one of a natural kind. The Latin word miraculum means an object of wonder, and can't someone say, whether a theist or an atheist, that our very existence is wondrous? The conception, development, and birth of a child is a natural occurrence, yet very miraculous indeed. Why can't we view all living things that same way?
 
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Logic_Fault

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Given the unlikelihood of our species to have come into existence, one can properly define it as a miracle, albeit one of a natural kind. The Latin word miraculum means an object of wonder, and can't someone say, whether a theist or an atheist, that our very existence is wondrous? The conception, development, and birth of a child is a natural occurrence, yet very miraculous indeed. Why can't we view all living things that same way?
Sure, I can agree with that. I have no problem agreeing with the term "miracle" when used in that sense. Now, if you were trying to get me to agree to some sort of theological type miracle I'd be much less likely to agree...
 
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SpyridonOCA

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Sure, I can agree with that. I have no problem agreeing with the term "miracle" when used in that sense. Now, if you were trying to get me to agree to some sort of theological type miracle I'd be much less likely to agree...

Why can't God work through the natural? Why is He limited to the supernatural?
 
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DaveISBG

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Given the unlikelihood of our species to have come into existence, one can properly define it as a miracle, albeit one of a natural kind. The Latin word miraculum means an object of wonder, and can't someone say, whether a theist or an atheist, that our very existence is wondrous? The conception, development, and birth of a child is a natural occurrence, yet very miraculous indeed. Why can't we view all living things that same way?

Webster's Dictionary definitions of miracle:

1. Any amazing or wonderful occurrence.
2. A marvellous event manifesting a supernatural act of God.
 
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AV1611VET

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The Latin word miraculum means an object of wonder, and can't someone say, whether a theist or an atheist, that our very existence is wondrous?

When it comes to Latin, I prefer creatio ex nihilo.
 
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SpyridonOCA

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Webster's Dictionary definitions of miracle:

1. Any amazing or wonderful occurrence.
2. A marvellous event manifesting a supernatural act of God.

It's rather limited, rather fundamentalist, to only see the miraculous in the supernatural, rather than in everyday things.

miracle
1137, from O.Fr. miracle, from L. miraculum "object of wonder" (in Church L., "marvelous event caused by God"), from mirari "to wonder at," from mirus "wonderful," from *smeiros, from PIE *(s)mei- "to smile, be astonished" (cf. Skt. smerah "smiling," Gk. meidan "to smile," O.C.S. smejo "to laugh;" see smile). Replaced O.E. wundortacen, wundorweorc. The Gk. words rendered as miracle in the Eng. Bibles were semeion "sign," teras "wonder," and dynamis "power," in Vulgate translated respectively as signum, prodigium, and virtus. First record of miraculous is from 1502.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/miracle

Why can't God act through the natural?
 
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Logic_Fault

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Why can't God work through the natural? Why is He limited to the supernatural?
Other than being non-existent?;)

If I believed a god existed I'd have no problem believing he did anything natural or supernatural. Since I don't believe deities exist I'm certainly not going to agree to the use of "miracle" in a theological/supernatural sense, which was all I was pointing out before.
 
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SpyridonOCA

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When it comes to Latin, I prefer creatio ex nihilo.

Matter did not exist, and then it did exist. Life did not exist, and then it did exist. Whether through evolution or special creation, it seems that a little ex nihilo is involved.
 
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Washington

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Given the unlikelihood of our species to have come into existence, one can properly define it as a miracle, albeit one of a natural kind. The Latin word miraculum means an object of wonder, and can't someone say, whether a theist or an atheist, that our very existence is wondrous? The conception, development, and birth of a child is a natural occurrence, yet very miraculous indeed. Why can't we view all living things that same way?
Just how unlikely is it? Some---most notably Frank Drake---have calculated that, given the billions upon billions of stars in the universe, there should be thousands of planets with civilizations as advanced as ours, and with many, many thousands of planets with species comparable to us who have not achieved our degree of technological sophistication.


So, although we may be a very unusual product of evolution, I don't see its unlikelihood as rising to the level of a miracle---something rooted in the divine. As for being a "natural miracle" this is would be more of a metaphorical use of "miracle," which I don't see as having any practical use.
 
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SpyridonOCA

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So, although we may be a very unusual product of evolution, I don't see its unlikelihood as rising to the level of a miracle---something rooted in the divine. As for being a "natural miracle" this is would be more of a metaphorical use of "miracle," which I don't see as having any practical use.

It's rather recent to define "miracle" exclusively in terms of the supernatural.
 
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DaveISBG

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It's rather limited, rather fundamentalist, to only see the miraculous in the supernatural, rather than in everyday things.



Why can't God act through the natural?
The greatest act God through the natural:
John 3:16
For God so loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life.
 
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Freodin

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Every sacrament of the Church is God using matter as a means of grace, whether it be the waters of baptism, the bread and wine of the Eucharist, etc. I fail to see why God can't use the evolutionary process for His purposes.

I have no problems with people viewing evolution as "divinely directed". But these people should also accept that this is a personal opinion, and does not need to have any meaning or compellence for others.
 
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DeathMagus

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I fail to see why God can't use the evolutionary process for His purposes.

Back when I was a theist, this was my viewpoint as well. It's probably the most realistic and rational viewpoint to hold within the confines of theism.
 
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Chalnoth

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Matter did not exist, and then it did exist.
We understand this process quite well. No deity is needed. The matter that we know and love condensed out of the high temperature bath that existed in our early universe, a bath that came about from the decay of the field that drove inflation. Where inflation came from we don't yet know (we don't even know much about what inflation was), but that doesn't mean that it came from nothing.

Life did not exist, and then it did exist. Whether through evolution or special creation, it seems that a little ex nihilo is involved.
Though we don't yet know that much about the formation of life, it certainly didn't come out of nothing. It came out of the soup of organic molecules that existed on the early Earth (and we can be certain that they did exist on the early Earth, because we see the same molecules that would have been necessary for the formation of life on comets).
 
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W

WonderingThings

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Why can't God work through the natural? Why is He limited to the supernatural?
To say god works "through" the natural isn't really saying anything at all. If what happened is natural, it follows laws and happens the way it happens. For god to do something himself, means he'd have to break the laws, otherwise he isn't really doing anything, it's just nature acting as it would. God working through nature is more a deistic, maybe even pantheistic view.
Matter did not exist, and then it did exist. Life did not exist, and then it did exist. Whether through evolution or special creation, it seems that a little ex nihilo is involved.
Matter always existed, the first law of thermodynamics confirms this.
 
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Chalnoth

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Matter always existed, the first law of thermodynamics confirms this.
Nope, actually it doesn't. The total energy of our universe is zero. Coming from "nothing" is actually quite possible, even through fully naturalistic means.
 
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