Marks of Carnality

[BenAdam]

What are some of the "indicators" of carnality to you?

I find the big 2 are:

1. Running after "gifts", "signs", and "wonders"
2. License

The first is somewhat the more dangerous one because gifts, signs, and wonders in themselves are fine, but they are not a mark of spiritual maturity.

The second though is more insidious I believe. When we stop recognizing sin as sin we start to tread a dangerous road.

Thoughts?

 

[Andry]

It's dem cigarettes, da cussin and da swearin...

 

[Andry]

Ok, seriously...

When we continuously go to God for stuff with an attitude like he's the maitre d', rather than going to God because he is God so we should be the ones listening and waiting.

 

[BenAdam]

It's dem cigarettes, da cussin and da swearin...

you forgot dancin

 

[Andry]

The second though is more insidious I believe. When we stop recognizing sin as sin we start to tread a dangerous road.

Thoughts?

What about in circumstances when what's sin to you may not be sin to me?

 

[BenAdam]

What about in circumstances when what's sin to you may not be sin to me?

i think that could fall under licencse.

I know people that refuse to control their behaviour thinking that if others have an issue with what they do, too bad

 

[Andry]

i think that could fall under licencse.

I know people that refuse to control their behaviour thinking that if others have an issue with what they do, too bad

So which way does the ball bounce: when it's not sin to you, to continuously to give up your right "to sin" for the sake of others, or bring them to the "truth"?

I've found that many believers are reticent to 'give up their rights' for the sake of others.

 

[BenAdam]

So which way does the ball bounce: when it's not sin to you, to continuously to give up your right "to sin" for the sake of others, or bring them to the "truth"?

I've found that many believers are reticent to 'give up their rights' for the sake of others.

I think Paul is clear, in your freedom, don't cause your brother to stumble.

If we are called to be servants, how much trouble could we avoid by acting like one?

 

[Br0kenSunshyne]

dem dar dabgunnit baptist charismatics gonna dun ruin all mai fun! uh huh.

 

[Alpine]

We should define our terms before even engaging in what carnality means.


What is carnality to you guys?

 

[Simon_Templar]

Ultimately the "sin to you" issue I think has to be defined by what is scriptural, and what is cultural.

There is nothing in the bible that says it is a sin to drink alcohol, infact the bible gives instances in which it is good to drink alcohol.

However, there are many Christians who consider it a sin to drink alcohol.

The fact is that for those people to drink is sin then, but its not for me because God didn't define it as sin, they did.

On the other hand, adultery is clearly defined by the bible as sin. Therefore I have no right to say "its not sin to me" because God is the one who defined it as sin.

Of course this issue gets more complicated because most of the people who condemn something as sin always believe that the bible supports the, even when it doesn't and they go to lengths to try and make it support them.


This is something I run into because I like to occasionally have a glass of wine, especially port after dinner and a cigar every once in a while... yet I know more than a few people who consider both drinking alcohol and smoking to be sins. I try not to make it an issue with those people, but at the same time I must confess it is very refreshing to not have to worry about it when I'm with people who wouldn't condemn people over things like that.

 

[Simon_Templar]

ultimately to me carnality is defined by the fruit yeilded. The most strict religious person in the world who never drinks, never smokes, never dances, never watches TV, etc can be completely carnal if he is ruled by anger, pride, etc.

carnality is ultimately about indulging your sinful nature in some way. The more you indulge the more it grows and gains strength. The more you indulge your spiritual nature, the more it grows and gains strength.

Carnality can be in the most simple of things, like going to sleep instead of praying, or lounging around and relaxing instead of doing something that God is leading you to do.

And yet, at the same time, things that are commonly assumed to be carnal might not be, simply enjoying yourself is not necessarily carnal at all. Enjoying a good meal, a glass of wine, good conversation, a good movie, a poem, whatever.
God made all of those things, in addition to your capacity to enjoy them.. thus there is no reason why they, or your enjoyment of them MUST be carnal.

though, as with anything, excess is almost always carnal.

 

[Tamara224]

This is something I run into because I like to occasionally have a glass of wine, especially port after dinner and a cigar every once in a while... yet I know more than a few people who consider both drinking alcohol and smoking to be sins. I try not to make it an issue with those people, but at the same time I must confess it is very refreshing to not have to worry about it when I'm with people who wouldn't condemn people over things like that.

Amen to that. When I was a teenager my parents were freed from the legalism concerning alcohol that they had accepted in Pentecostal churches. My dad was advised by his doctor to drink a couple of glasses a wine every day for his heart. So they did a search of the Bible for the "rule" on alcohol - they suspected already that the hard-line teetotalling wasn't correct. They were liberated to realize that it's not a sin, but a blessing.

Since then we've struggled with the condemnation from my mom's hard-core Pentecostal family. For a while, they hid their alcohol when the family came over. But last Thanksgiving my mom decided to serve wine with the meal (almost the whole family was there). She and my dad realized that there comes a point when you're not giving up your freedom out of consideration for a weaker brother, you're actually bowing to the dictates of legalism and condemnation. They weren't tempted to drink the wine or to fall into alcoholism because we drink it with dinner. They were simply wanting to dictate and control. (What's funny is that they didn't say anything about the wine but my grandma threw a fit about us eating the appetizers before we prayed, lol).

IMO, legalism itself is often a sign of carnality. It is about controlling others and demonstrates an immature attitude towards grace and love.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

What are some of the "indicators" of carnality to you?

I find the big 2 are:

1. Running after "gifts", "signs", and "wonders"
2. License

The first is somewhat the more dangerous one because gifts, signs, and wonders in themselves are fine, but they are not a mark of spiritual maturity.

The second though is more insidious I believe. When we stop recognizing sin as sin we start to tread a dangerous road.

Thoughts?

When anything becomes more precious that God to us . . . and we cherish those things over Him, who is the Pearl of Great Price.

 

[BenAdam]

ultimately to me carnality is defined by the fruit yeilded. The most strict religious person in the world who never drinks, never smokes, never dances, never watches TV, etc can be completely carnal if he is ruled by anger, pride, etc.

carnality is ultimately about indulging your sinful nature in some way. The more you indulge the more it grows and gains strength. The more you indulge your spiritual nature, the more it grows and gains strength.

Carnality can be in the most simple of things, like going to sleep instead of praying, or lounging around and relaxing instead of doing something that God is leading you to do.

And yet, at the same time, things that are commonly assumed to be carnal might not be, simply enjoying yourself is not necessarily carnal at all. Enjoying a good meal, a glass of wine, good conversation, a good movie, a poem, whatever.
God made all of those things, in addition to your capacity to enjoy them.. thus there is no reason why they, or your enjoyment of them MUST be carnal.

though, as with anything, excess is almost always carnal.

awesome post ST

 

[pinetree]

i think that could fall under licencse.

I know people that refuse to control their behaviour thinking that if others have an issue with what they do, too bad

so driving is carnality?

 

[NorrinRadd]

ultimately to me carnality is defined by the fruit yeilded. The most strict religious person in the world who never drinks, never smokes, never dances, never watches TV, etc can be completely carnal if he is ruled by anger, pride, etc. ...

Galatians suggests that legalism IS carnality, and actually engenders the same bad behaviors it purports to prevent. (Gal. 5)

In my old Pentecostal church, they often cited Gal. 6:8 to support "doing 'spiritual' things," like praying, reading Scripture, attending church, etc., and avoiding "carnal" things. But that's a questionable use of the verse that can easily end up just creating a new form of legalism: You just replace circumcision and Torah with new "works" -- like those named above.

 

[BenAdam]

so driving is carnality?

nope fishing is

 

[NewSong]

To me the marks of carnality in my life is when I am more concerned with the temporal world. I run myself in debt trying to rescue a situation. I get mad when the optometrists want to stand there and gab or blame me because I want my glasses adjusted better. I am so easily agitated and that is a mark of my carnality. Anything not born of the Spirit of God is carnal. This is for me only. I am not trying to put this on anyone else. I know specifically it is for me!

 

[The Weaker Brother]

It's dem cigarettes, da cussin and da swearin...

lol