My TE Challenge

[MasterOfKrikkit]

TE works, because its practitioners do not have to think too much.

When asked about Genesis and/or creation they can answer “it’s not really true”.

When asked about evolution and humans shared origins with other apes they can answer “it’s not really true”.

Liberalism at its best

Oh come on, mate, don't stoop to AV's level. I'd expect a better understanding of your "opponent's" position before you trot out crap like this. Why would you (honestly) think that TEs, given that -- by definition -- they believe in evolution, would say that shared origins are "not really true"? (And, as has been pointed out, "not really true" and "not literally true" are different things when talking about the theology of Genesis.)

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

WHY are you unreppable?

Um, que? Sorry, still a bit of a n00b...

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

Here is one. Here, here and here are others.

Pfft. Publish in a reputable journal, then we'll talk

Oh, and: "The Chimpanzee Sequencing and Analysis Consortium". Best Group Name Evah!

When are you going to start posting examples of TEs saying that common descent isn't really true?

As opposed to, say, "Homo sapiens, like all species, has been shaped by positive natural selection. As first articulated by Darwin and Wallace in 1858..." You'd be a bit of a TE, then...?

 

[Nitron]

Um, que? Sorry, still a bit of a n00b...

Works now

 

[FishFace]

The Bible says: Atheists worship nature.

A Christian motto says: The Bible says it - that settles it.

AV1611VET says: Atheists worship nature.

Once again, you've demonstrated what the Bible says and that you believe it.
I have no doubt of these things. I have doubt of their accuracy.

You still need to demonstrate their accuracy, because you claimed you have done. That was a lie - you did no such thing.

 

[AV1611VET]

Once again, you've demonstrated what the Bible says and that you believe it.

Ya --- and I get tired of demonstrating it. For the umpteenth time:

• The Bible says it --- that settles it.

I get the idea you guys don't believe me until I pwn you with it, then I get a string of ad hominems, denials, and jokes.

I seem to be a magnet for atheists, scientists, and those goofy guys over at fsbvd --- who probably come over here probably thinking they are going to "set me straight."

There's probably a trail of

s as long as your arm from them.

 

[Skavau]

Explain Theistic Evolution in light of a literal interpretation of Genesis 1.

You probably can't.

Generally though, there is no reason to accept the literal interpretation of Genesis.

I don't need challenges to "say more about my poor education in science." I've already admitted that I don't know diddly about science. That's old hat here, my friend --- catch up.

So why do you constantly address it? You admit you have no idea what you are talking about. You admit you reject evolution because you assume Genesis is more accurate representation of reality.

And as I'm fond of saying:

• If I want to disprove evolution, all I need is the first chapter of the Bible.
• If I want to disprove atheism, all I need is the first verse of the Bible.

For the above to be true, you must first show how the Bible is true. You have to show how the Bible is factual.

Can you do that?

Skip the algebra, do it this way: The Bible says it - that settles it.

False. There is no reason to believe that the Bible's word on subjects settle debate.

I've already shown atheism to be a form of nature worship; so by definition that makes atheists polytheists.

Absolute gibberish. I do not worship nature and I am an Atheist. I am evidence of the utter falsehood of your claim. Do not think that you can speak for me.

The Bible says: Atheists worship nature.

A Christian motto says: The Bible says it - that settles it.

AV1611VET says: Atheists worship nature.

We now need to hold the Biblical claim up to reality. The Bible declares Atheists worship nature. I am an Atheist and I do not worship nature.

Therefore, the Biblical claim is incorrect by consequence of my existence.

Ya --- and I get tired of demonstrating it. For the umpteenth time:

• 
  [*]The Bible says it --- that settles it.

• That's your belief, not mine or most of the world's. Your claim that the Bible is infallible in everything is meaningless. You are yet to demonstrate how the Bible is infallible.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Um --- you mean "nature" --- not animals --- (I hope)?

IIRC, it says "worshipped the creature more than the creator".

Your inability to support your position is noted.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

The Bible says: Atheists worship nature.

No, it does not, and you are committing a sin by claiming otherwise.

A Christian motto says: The Bible says it - that settles it.

Your motto says that (or is that your pastor's motto?).

AV1611VET says: Atheists worship nature.

God says: Thou shalt not lie.

AV1611VET does not care.

 

[AV1611VET]

For the above to be true, you must first show how the Bible is true.

You have to show how the Bible is factual.

There is no reason to believe that the Bible's word on subjects settle debate.

You are yet to demonstrate how the Bible is infallible.

You obviously don't debate us much, do you?

Let me introduce you to a motto of ours:

• The Bible says it --- that settles it.

It does not say:

• The Bible says it --- I can demonstrate it --- that settles it.

In fact --- let me give you a little history on that motto.

It used to read:

• The Bible says it --- I believe it --- that settles it.

Until someone pointed out that whether or not you believe it, makes no difference --- it is so.

Thus the "I believe it" was dropped from the motto.

 

[Skavau]

You obviously don't debate us much, do you?

Let me introduce you to a motto of ours:

• The Bible says it --- that settles it.

This motto of yours is an expression of your unrelenting willful ignorance and lack of critical thought. Just because you believe the Bible is the final word does not make it so.

It does not say:

• The Bible says it --- I can demonstrate it --- that settles it.

That's a shame. People would take you more seriously if it was your motto.

In fact --- let me give you a little history on that motto.

It used to read:

• The Bible says it --- I believe it --- that settles it.

Until someone pointed out that whether or not you believe it, makes no difference --- it is so.

Thus the "I believe it" was dropped from the motto.

How do you know the Bible 'is so'?

 

[AV1611VET]

IIRC, it says "worshipped the creature more than the creator".

Your inability to support your position is noted.

For the sake of the lurkers --- not your ad hominem --- here it is again for the nth time:

[bible]Romans 1:25[/bible]

[bible]Romans 8:19-21[/bible]

And now the explanatory passage:

For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

creature = creation

 

[MrGoodBytes]

For the sake of the lurkers --- not your ad hominem --- here it is again for the nth time:

[bible]Romans 1:25[/bible]

[bible]Romans 8:19-21[/bible]

And now the explanatory passage:



creature = creation

By "your position", I meant your claim that atheists worship nature.

 

[AV1611VET]

This motto of yours is an expression of your unrelenting willful ignorance and lack of critical thought.

Um --- no --- it's not my motto. I'm not the one who came up with it.

Just because you believe the Bible is the final word does not make it so.

Correct --- I have nothing to do with making the Bible the "final Word."

That's a shame. People would take you more seriously if it was your motto.

How seriously you take what I say is your business --- not mine.

How do you know the Bible 'is so'?

Because I walk by faith --- not by sight.

• FAITH = Facts Acquired In The Heart

So --- just like the [secular] authors --- I too can say:

[bible]2 Timothy 1:12[/bible]

[bible]Hebrews 11:3[/bible]

It's not head knowledge --- it's heart knowledge.

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

I know this is a complete waste of time, but...

You obviously don't debate us much, do you?

Us? Our name is Legion?

Let me introduce you to a motto of ours:

• The Bible says it --- that settles it.

It does not say:

• The Bible says it --- I can demonstrate it --- that settles it.

Yes, which is why that motto is worthless: precisely because it doesn't deal with anything demonstrable. I might as well claim the opposite of whatever you say and offer, as "evidence"/"proof"/whatever, "The Quran says it -- that settles it". Or "Mumblin' Bob says it -- that settles it". Or "Newton's Principia says it -- that settles it". Or...

Until someone pointed out that whether or not you believe it, makes no difference --- it is so.

Thus the "I believe it" was dropped from the motto.

Belief makes no difference to the truth, no, but it makes a lot of difference to the validity of an argument. Specifically, it determines whether a little logical fallacy called Begging the Question has been committed. (Hint: in your case, it has.)

 

[FishFace]

Ya --- and I get tired of demonstrating it. For the umpteenth time:

• The Bible says it --- that settles it.

And for the umpteenth time, that's (one of) your claim(s), and you have demonstrated that claim umpteen times, but you have not demonstrated its accuracy.

Since the accuracy of the other claims relies on the accuracy of that one, you probably want to start by demonstrating the accuracy of it first

I get the idea you guys don't believe me until I pwn you with it, then I get a string of ad hominems, denials, and jokes.

Well, I certainly deny that you claiming that "The Bible says it --- that settles it" is the same as you demonstrating that "The Bible says it --- that settles it."

In fact, making that claim and then claiming that "The Bible says God exists" is still only claiming not demonstrating.

Please demonstrate your claim - as you claimed to have done already.

 

[Nathan Poe]

You obviously don't debate us much, do you?

No doubt he's more accustomed to talking to the rational.

Let me introduce you to a motto of ours:

• The Bible says it --- that settles it.

It does not say:

• The Bible says it --- I can demonstrate it --- that settles it.

Of course -- evidence only gets in the way.

In fact --- let me give you a little history on that motto.

It used to read:

• The Bible says it --- I believe it --- that settles it.

Until someone pointed out that whether or not you believe it, makes no difference --- it is so.

Of course -- faith only gets in the way.

Thus the "I believe it" was dropped from the motto.

As was anything even remotely resembling cirtical thought.

 

[ranmaonehalf]

well based on the TE that follows literal gen.
the world doesnt have any animals on it since they were all created on the first day and mutation doesnt occure. grasshoppers have 4 legs, rabbits are cows and trex never existed.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Um --- no --- it's not my motto. I'm not the one who came up with it.

Of course you're not -- that would imply a level of creativity which runs contrary to the spirit of the motto in the first place.

Correct --- I have nothing to do with making the Bible the "final Word."

But everything to do with worshipping it as such.

Because I walk by faith --- not by sight.

• FAITH = Facts Acquired In The Heart

As opposed to facts acquired by the mind?

Seriously, AV, which verse gave you this definition?

It's not head knowledge --- it's heart knowledge.

The heart is a muscle that pumps blood throughout the body -- if you're saying it can acquire knowledge, your literalism is even more out of touch with reality than anyone imagined.

 

[Skavau]

Um --- no --- it's not my motto. I'm not the one who came up with it.

Fair enough. The fact you buy into the motto and see it as virtuous is an expression of your lack of critical thought and willful ignorance.

Correct --- I have nothing to do with making the Bible the "final Word."

You're half right, half wrong. You believe the Bible is the final word but contend that it is the final word irrespective of how steadfast your own beliefs in the Bible are. This is true in so much that personal belief does not define or imply objective truth. The Bible is either true or false depending on whether it matches reality.

I say that the Bible is false. You say that the Bible is true.

Because I walk by faith --- not by sight.

• FAITH = Facts Acquired In The Heart

Your definition of faith is utter baloney. Faith shows us how steadfast an individual is in his or her beliefs, not whether they are actually correct in his or her beliefs. You've simply committed a circular reasoning fallacy and said that you know the Bible 'is so' because you really really believe it 'is so'.

I will ask again: How do you know the Bible is completely factual and consequently the way to settle all discussion?