Philosophy... What is the point?

[stan1980]

Well, imagine how believing that you didn't exist would affect your worldview.

Well if I really believed I didn't exist, then it would probably follow that nothing else I see really exists either, so it would probably lead me to do some pretty unusual and crazy stuff. But how is thinking about this practical?

 

[quatona]

Well if I really believed I didn't exist, then it would probably follow that nothing else I see really exists either, so it would probably lead me to do some pretty unusual and crazy stuff. But how is thinking about this practical?

When saying "practical" - which purposes and goals do you have in mind in regards to which you´d judge an approach practical or not practical?

 

[stan1980]

When saying "practical" - which purposes and goals do you have in mind in regards to which you´d judge an approach practical or not practical?

Well anything useful that could come out of it would be a start. Hopeful something more than just "it is an interesting thing to think about" too.

 

[quatona]

Well anything useful that could come out of it would be a start. Hopeful something more than just "it is an interesting thing to think about" too.

Let me put it that way:
Unless you have at some point encountered the concept "I/Me/Self" (as an a. distinct entity and b. consistent entity) as lacking for the purpose you (or someone else) used it for (in that it was too unprecise, too poorly defined, leading to contradictions or paradoxa), there´s probably nothing useful to be found in these considerations, for you.

For me, once I have encountered such shortcomings, questions for the usefulness of this concept (or the limitations of its usefulness) downright force themselves upon me.

 

[cantata]

There are lots of ways you could go from answering in the negative to "do I exist?"

You might become an immaterialist, if you mean that you don't think your physical body exists; that you are just a mind floating in a world of ideas. That was the view of my beloved George Berkeley, who wrote the most delightfully brief philosophical treatise which would be even shorter if he didn't spend so much time apologising for being verbose

Or, you might find the notion of 'I' dissolving altogether, and start to wonder where the bounds of your consciousness lie, or whether they exist at all. And this has profound consequences for ethics, and one's general approach to life.

 

[ArchaicTruth]

I think I like you already, truth. Are you REALLY fifteen? You seem a lot smarter than some of the older posters on the site.

Yes I am 15, and I'll be 16 on May 2 so I can finally get my damned drivers license. It's not so hard to be smart, you just need to take your time, be open minded, and often times really really lucky. But mostly just open minded.

 

[NavyGuy7]

Yes I am 15, and I'll be 16 on May 2 so I can finally get my damned drivers license. It's not so hard to be smart, you just need to take your time, be open minded, and often times really really lucky. But mostly just open minded.

I can only keep my mind so open. I don't want my brain to fall out, after all. There is such a thing as "too open-minded".
And the driver's license thing? Yah.... it's kinda nice. Just get a haircut before you take the picture. I have hippie hair on my license, and my hair is shorter now. I actually prefer short hair.

 

[JonF]

This might, for some of you, be one of the most ignorant posts you will read this year. But what actually is the point to philosophy as, as far as I can tell philosophy doesn't really get you very far.

I hear concepts such as free will, determinism, the fact we can't even be sure if we exist blah blah blah, and granted they are interesting topics, but also rather pointless. I mean, so what if I don't really exist, so what if I don't have free will, what difference does that make to anything? I believe I exist, I believe I have free will, and that is all that really matters, isn't it?

Feel free to flame away, call me an idiot etc.

For the love of wisdom?

Puns aside, you do realize at one point what we now call math, chemistry, astronomy, and physics, were all philosophical questions? The process we now use to answer these questions came out of philosophy.

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

I like to think about how do we know things, and metaphysics.

 

[quatona]

I can only keep my mind so open. I don't want my brain to fall out, after all.

So you imagine your brain to be inside your mind?

 

[stan1980]

Let me put it that way:
Unless you have at some point encountered the concept "I/Me/Self" (as an a. distinct entity and b. consistent entity) as lacking for the purpose you (or someone else) used it for (in that it was too unprecise, too poorly defined, leading to contradictions or paradoxa), there´s probably nothing useful to be found in these considerations, for you.

For me, once I have encountered such shortcomings, questions for the usefulness of this concept (or the limitations of its usefulness) downright force themselves upon me.

Okay, I barely understood a word of that but I'm going to guess nothing useful can come out of me pondering that particular question.

There are lots of ways you could go from answering in the negative to "do I exist?"

You might become an immaterialist, if you mean that you don't think your physical body exists; that you are just a mind floating in a world of ideas. That was the view of my beloved George Berkeley, who wrote the most delightfully brief philosophical treatise which would be even shorter if he didn't spend so much time apologising for being verbose

Or, you might find the notion of 'I' dissolving altogether, and start to wonder where the bounds of your consciousness lie, or whether they exist at all. And this has profound consequences for ethics, and one's general approach to life.

But is any of that useful, for anyone?

 

[cantata]

But is any of that useful, for anyone?

What do you mean by "useful"?

If something gets us closer to the truth, I regard it as useful.

The experience of the dissolving of your selfhood can be deeply calming. It can also change the way you regard other people. I think this is useful as well, in terms of its therapeutic and psychological value.

 

[stan1980]

What do you mean by "useful"?

If something gets us closer to the truth, I regard it as useful.

The experience of the dissolving of your selfhood can be deeply calming. It can also change the way you regard other people. I think this is useful as well, in terms of its therapeutic and psychological value.

I suppose I tend to think that pondering the question can't get me any closer to the truth, so it seems pointless to *me*, but if others can find some use for it, such as like you say therapeutic and psychological value, then knock yourselves out I guess.

 

[quatona]

Okay, I barely understood a word of that

Sorry for being cryptic. Keep in mind that I am not a native English speaker and therefore tend to be clumsy and wordy.

but I'm going to guess nothing useful can come out of me pondering that particular question.

Apparently not, at least not at this particular point in time.
In order to change our paradigms and - even more so - axioms we need a very good reason to do so (or even to consider doing so).

 

[Eudaimonist]

Well if I really believed I didn't exist, then it would probably follow that nothing else I see really exists either, so it would probably lead me to do some pretty unusual and crazy stuff. But how is thinking about this practical?

On the flipside, finding a valid sense in which you exist also has practical implications. For instance, working on improving your self-esteem could be a value for you if there is some valid idea of self to which esteem applies. You may have to eliminate invalid concepts of self in order to perform the process correctly.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eudaimonist]

So you imagine your brain to be inside your mind?

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the saying: "It's good to be open-minded, but not so open-minded that one's brain falls out."

This quote is often attributed to Carl Sagan, but I think he may have gotten it from somewhere else.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[quatona]

If something gets us closer to the truth, I regard it as useful.

Imagine my amazement, cantata, when - after having discovered so many similar ideas - finding out that "truth" plays such an essential part in your approach, while it is completely insignificant in mine.
I guess there will come the time and occasion for discussing this.

 

[quatona]

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the saying: "It's good to be open-minded, but not so open-minded that one's brain falls out."

This quote is often attributed to Carl Sagan, but I think he may have gotten it from somewhere else.

Um, yes, and surely the quote is catchy and all, but even if Carl Sagan said it it still doesn´t make much sense to me (unless I could succeed in imagining the brain to be inside the mind, that is).

 

[Eudaimonist]

Um, yes, and surely the quote is catchy and all, but even if Carl Sagan said it it still doesn´t make much sense to me (unless I could succeed in imagining the brain to be inside the mind, that is).

It makes perfect sense as a poetry. It's not meant to be taken literally.

It may be stated literally as: "It's good to be open to new ideas, but not at the expense of rationality."


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[stan1980]

Sorry for being cryptic. Keep in mind that I am not a native English speaker and therefore tend to be clumsy and wordy.

I would never have guessed. I think it was a failure on my part, rather than yours, to understand the terminology. Embarrassingly enough, for someone who is a native English speaker, my vocabulary probably isn't quite up to scratch. I blame the schools!