Why can't we all get along?

[Alpine]

So many of us disagree on so many things.

So many times we go beyond disagreeing, and we bash our brothers and sisters in Christ. Are you guys like this in your churches and the real world? I doubt it!

I'm not word of faith, I disagree with a few word of faith ideas. BUT, I would never think of word of faithers as cultists or as non Christian.

Truth is, a person who was my spiritual father for a time in my life was word of faith, and he was a huge blessing. An associate pastor at the Assembly of God I used to attend was word of faith, and he is an amazing Christian. I've met so many wonderful word of faithers in my life.

Maybe part of the problem for some is that you need to visit some word of faith churches. You will most likely not agree with some of the doctrines, but you will at least soften up on how severely critical you are.

You will realize word of faith believers are true Christians and love Jesus, just like you do!

 

[jeolmstead]

Agreed.....

John O.

 

[SharonL]

There are several things that comes into focus here.

One - people just flat disagree and don't have an open mind to learn if what they read is really true - so they lash out to protect their point of view.

Two - Some people come on here just for the simple reason of causing problems. They make statements they don't even believe themselves just to see the shock that it brings out in people.

Third - Words seem so cold when you just read words and don't see expressions or that pat on the back or the wink of the eye.

But the biggest problems are the ones that just want to cause problems. That is very cruel and disrespectful. The best thing to do with those is just pass over them - if they don't get the shock they want - they will move on to another forum.

A true debate with Scripture and a senseable reasoning serves good purposes for all of us with a mind to learn and compassion for our fellow Christians.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

So many of us disagree on so many things.

So many times we go beyond disagreeing, and we bash our brothers and sisters in Christ. Are you guys like this in your churches and the real world? I doubt it!

I'm not word of faith, I disagree with a few word of faith ideas. BUT, I would never think of word of faithers as cultists or as non Christian.

Truth is, a person who was my spiritual father for a time in my life was word of faith, and he was a huge blessing. An associate pastor at the Assembly of God I used to attend was word of faith, and he is an amazing Christian. I've met so many wonderful word of faithers in my life.

Maybe part of the problem for some is that you need to visit some word of faith churches. You will most likely not agree with some of the doctrines, but you will at least soften up on how severely critical you are.

You will realize word of faith believers are true Christians and love Jesus, just like you do!

I attend and teach at a WOF church and have to say those who really follow so called "faith" teachings are greedy and covetous.

 

[Christina M]

I attend and teach at a WOF church and have to say those who really follow so called "faith" teachings are greedy and covetous.

Where is your church?

I think sending your pastor a transcript of your very anti-WOF retorts would be an eye-opener.

Pretty bizarre to have an anti-WOFer teaching in your WOF church.... I would certainly question your pastor's discernment levels.:o

 

[millerrod]

Would you be comfortable with a teacher coming into your childs school and teach your child things which you know will hurt them.
would you stand for the teacher to teach your child how to drink wiskey and smoke cigerettes.
No you would not Why?? because these things will hurt and destroy your child you would not tolerate it for one minute.
Yet we as christians seem to say its ok just be quiet dont say anything just compromise with what we know is error which will lead our brothers and sisters to hurt and great suffering.
The weight of guilt of being poor or sick and being taught its your fault your faith is not what it should be or maybe you didnt pray with the right people.
And the hurt and distruction which comes from vanity and pride if you are healthy or if you are rich after all its all because you had the right amount of faith.
And what are we teaching when we say our Father never corrects us yet Gods word says spare the rod spoil the child are we not the sons and daughters of God who need corection from our Father at times when we error in Gods Ways.
Is it safe to teach these things does it not have the possibility of great hurt to our brothers and sisters.
You would not allow this kind of hurt to be taught to your children without teaching them the truth and making an attempt to stop or correct the teacher.
There is no compromise no wavy line of allowing our brothers and sisters to be misguided when we know whats being taught is not from Gods teaching.
CF has rules that clearly state nontrinitarian teaching is not allowed here becuase it says the nicence creed must be followed.
Yet it is taught here that somehow the Trinity of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit could die in part or seperate in part. and no matter how you paint it that is clearly nontrinitarian.
I think those who actually care enough to stand for Truth and to stand to protect those who may be hurt by such teaching should post threads of Truth which destroy the false teachings that are evident.
We dont need to be nasty and we dont need to do anything but show scriptual Truths.
But please dont ask or think we will silently allow our brothers and sisters fall into a trap of untruth which will lead to pride and vanity and the burden of guilt and a lack of respect for God. Brother rod

 

[mourningdove~]

Why can't we all get along?

To me, it is simple.

Many would rather look at the perceived 'sin' in the lives of others ...
than to look at the own lives and see what is 'there' ...


.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Where is your church?

I think sending your pastor a transcript of your very anti-WOF retorts would be an eye-opener.

Pretty bizarre to have an anti-WOFer teaching in your WOF church.... I would certainly question your pastor's discernment levels.:o

The doctrine that it is God's will for you to be rich and if you aren't then you are not in God's will nor glorifying God appeals only to the fallen, sinful nature of people. The Bible repeatedly warns Christians about giving into greedy desires with the consequence of losing eternal life.

 

[MikeMcK]

Maybe part of the problem for some is that you need to visit some word of faith churches. You will most likely not agree with some of the doctrines, but you will at least soften up on how severely critical you are.

I can't imagine that God went through all of that trouble to rescue me from the WoF movement, only to have me go back there.

((And, yes, before you say it, I already know that you're going to use that as an excuse to say "A-HA! I knew you weren't really a charismatic after all."))

 

[Always in His Presence]

Yet we as christians seem to say its ok just be quiet dont say anything just compromise with what we know is error which will lead our brothers and sisters to hurt and great suffering.

This comment, IMO shows how little you know of the Word of Faith movement. Our ministry goal is to see people Saved, healed, deliverd and set free - only someone who knows little to nothing about the Word of Faith, again IMO, could possibly say the above with a straight face.

The weight of guilt of being poor or sick and being taught its your fault your faith is not what it should be or maybe you didnt pray with the right people.

As has been attempted to be explained in at least 8 threads and numerous post - I state this here not for mallerad, but for those who unfortunately have to read this post.

It has been shown and testified to by not less than 5 Word of Faith adherents and Two Word of Faith Ministers that the mainline Word of Faith does not believe such things. This is again IMO and 22 years of ministry experience in the Word of Faith misinformation at the least and could possibly be interpreted as slander considering the number of times millernod has been told this is not true.

And the hurt and distruction which comes from vanity and pride if you are healthy or if you are rich after all its all because you had the right amount of faith.


As has been attempted to be explained in at least 8 threads and numerous post - I state this here not for mallenad, but for those who unfortunately have to read this post.

It has been shown and testified to by not less than 5 Word of Faith adherents and Two Word of Faith Ministers that the mainline Word of Faith does not believe such things. This is again IMO and 22 years of ministry experience in the Word of Faith misinformation at the least and could possibly be interpreted as slander considering the number of times millernod has been told this is not true.

And what are we teaching when we say our Father never corrects us yet Gods word says spare the rod spoil the child are we not the sons and daughters of God who need corection from our Father at times when we error in Gods Ways.

Now heis saying he is a father trying to correct us? Or is he saying he is speaking on the Fathers behalf?

Is it safe to teach these things does it not have the possibility of great hurt to our brothers and sisters.
You would not allow this kind of hurt to be taught to your children without teaching them the truth and making an attempt to stop or correct the teacher.

As has been attempted to be explained in at least 8 threads and numerous post - I state this here not for mallerad, but for those who unfortunately have to read this post.

It has been shown and testified to by not less than 5 Word of Faith adherents and Two Word of Faith Ministers that the mainline Word of Faith does not believe such things. This is again IMO and 22 years of ministry experience in the Word of Faith misinformation at the least and could possibly be interpreted as slander considering the number of times mallerad has been told this is not true.

There is no compromise no wavy line of allowing our brothers and sisters to be misguided when we know whats being taught is not from Gods teaching.
CF has rules that clearly state nontrinitarian teaching is not allowed here becuase it says the nicence creed must be followed.
Yet it is taught here that somehow the Trinity of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit could die in part or seperate in part. and no matter how you paint it that is clearly nontrinitarian.


As has been attempted to be explained in at least 8 threads and numerous post - I state this here not for mallerad, but for those who unfortunately have to read this post.

It has been shown and testified to by not less than 5 Word of Faith adherents and Two Word of Faith Ministers that the mainline Word of Faith does not believe such things. This is again IMO and 22 years of ministry experience in the Word of Faith misinformation at the least and could possibly be interpreted as slander considering the number of times millernod has been told this is not true.

I think those who actually care enough to stand for Truth and to stand to protect those who may be hurt by such teaching should post threads of Truth which destroy the false teachings that are evident.

If the above were the truth - would you not participate in an actual Biblical debate about what people believe INSTEAD of opening 7 or 8 threads just making the same accusation over and over - with no support - no links proving your point - no quotes and no conversation with people who are trying to be reasonable.

We dont need to be nasty and we dont need to do anything but show scriptual Truths.
But please dont ask or think we will silently allow our brothers and sisters fall into a trap of untruth which will lead to pride and vanity and the burden of guilt and a lack of respect for God. Brother rod

Be careful my friends - just because someone repeats an accusation over and over - thought the accusations are said in thread after thread - It doesn't make them true.

Isn't there something about bearing false witness - hmm.... I think I've read it somewhere.

However, this will once again fall on deaf ears and most likely produce yet another barrage of accusations.

I will not be responding further, but believe the best in the readers to know what is right and what is false.

Peace!

 

[Always in His Presence]

Alpine - thanks for trying,

 

[probinson]

Would you be comfortable with a teacher coming into your childs school and teach your child things which you know will hurt them.

Let's stop here for a moment. You have presupposed that WoF teachings "hurt people", but that's simply not true. It is not WoF teachings that are damaging. It is the misuse, misunderstanding, and abuse of teachings taken to an extreme that hurt people. You will find that in every denomination, in every belief, in every church.

would you stand for the teacher to teach your child how to drink wiskey and smoke cigerettes.
No you would not Why?? because these things will hurt and destroy your child you would not tolerate it for one minute.
Yet we as christians seem to say its ok just be quiet dont say anything just compromise with what we know is error which will lead our brothers and sisters to hurt and great suffering.

You KNOW it's in error? Really? Because for 30 years, I've lived and walked in these beliefs. I've been through good times and bad. Through it all, God has sustained me. And NO HURT and or suffering has come as a result of the teachings I've heard. None. At. All.

The weight of guilt of being poor or sick and being taught its your fault your faith is not what it should be or maybe you didnt pray with the right people.
And the hurt and distruction which comes from vanity and pride if you are healthy or if you are rich after all its all because you had the right amount of faith.

What an overt simplification of WoF teaching this is.

And what are we teaching when we say our Father never corrects us yet Gods word says spare the rod spoil the child are we not the sons and daughters of God who need corection from our Father at times when we error in Gods Ways.

And here is yet ANOTHER misrepresentation. WoF doesn't teach that God never corrects us. Of course you've been told that before, many times, and you STILL propagate the false notion that WoF doesn't believe that God corrects us.

It would be more accurate to say that WoF doesn't believe that God corrects us the way that you believe He corrects us.

Is it safe to teach these things does it not have the possibility of great hurt to our brothers and sisters.

I can make the same argument of your teaching. What if you teach someone that their sickness is from God to "correct" them, when in reality, God wants to heal them? So you plant seeds of doubt in people, and in doing so, you prolong their suffering. This is a 2-way street, Rod.

You would not allow this kind of hurt to be taught to your children without teaching them the truth and making an attempt to stop or correct the teacher.

I've got a news flash for you. You aren't everyone's father. The people on this forum are NOT your children. Each and every person here has the ability to go to the throne room of grace and talk to THE Father themselves.

There is no compromise no wavy line of allowing our brothers and sisters to be misguided when we know whats being taught is not from Gods teaching.
CF has rules that clearly state nontrinitarian teaching is not allowed here becuase it says the nicence creed must be followed.
Yet it is taught here that somehow the Trinity of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit could die in part or seperate in part. and no matter how you paint it that is clearly nontrinitarian.

Are you STILL bearing false witness against people?

If this were a CLEAR issue, it would have been resolved long ago. But the doctrinal and theological implications of what happened from the time Jesus died on the cross until the time He ascended to take His place at the right hand of the Father has been debated for FAR LONGER than CF has been around, and is not divided along the WoF/non-WoF line equally.

I think those who actually care enough to stand for Truth and to stand to protect those who may be hurt by such teaching should post threads of Truth which destroy the false teachings that are evident.

In doing so, you come across as nothing but prideful. You start a thread, in which you DISALLOW debate, which essentially says, listen to me, because I have the one and only answer, bump it repeatedly, which, by the way, is considered bad form on most every other forum on the Internet, simply because you think it's some kind of wonderful, and try to FORCE people to hear YOUR VERSION of the truth, rather than guiding them to the Holy Spirit, who is the one and only Person that can lead people to the Truth. You seem to feel like it is your responsibility to guide people to the "truth", and it is not. It is up to each person to seek after God for themselves, as He guides them into the Truth.

We dont need to be nasty and we dont need to do anything but show scriptual Truths.

Apparently, you also believe that you must bear false witness against people to make your point.

But please dont ask or think we will silently allow our brothers and sisters fall into a trap of untruth which will lead to pride and vanity and the burden of guilt and a lack of respect for God. Brother rod

Additionally, please don't ask or think that we will sit quietly when additional, man-made requirements are heaped upon the grace of God, and the free gift of Salvation that He provided for us.

 

[probinson]

Many would rather look at the perceived 'sin' in the lives of others ...
than to look at the own lives and see what is 'there' ...
.

It's about time that people stop trying to fix everyone else. Try taking a look in the mirror every now and again. Trust me when I say there are puh-lenty of things for you to worry about there!

 

[millerrod]

What does Gods Word say about what we should do when we reconize false teaching --teaching in error. after all its not about what we think or what we want or how we want to handle it about what God says. I believe if you study this you will find we are to stand against, not compromise with.
1. Reconize
2. Prove error with clear scripture - Gods Word
3. Take a stang against
Any thing else is compromise and cleary against Gods Word.

 

[probinson]

So many of us disagree on so many things.

So many times we go beyond disagreeing, and we bash our brothers and sisters in Christ. Are you guys like this in your churches and the real world? I doubt it!

I'm not word of faith, I disagree with a few word of faith ideas. BUT, I would never think of word of faithers as cultists or as non Christian.

Truth is, a person who was my spiritual father for a time in my life was word of faith, and he was a huge blessing. An associate pastor at the Assembly of God I used to attend was word of faith, and he is an amazing Christian. I've met so many wonderful word of faithers in my life.

Maybe part of the problem for some is that you need to visit some word of faith churches. You will most likely not agree with some of the doctrines, but you will at least soften up on how severely critical you are.

You will realize word of faith believers are true Christians and love Jesus, just like you do!

God bless you, Alpine. Your excellent message here, unfortunately, will fall on many deaf ears.

There are, unfortunately, people who simply do not care. All they want to do is tell you how wrong you are and how right they are. They think they have "the Truth" and they'll stop at nothing to cram it down your throat until you either 1) get tired of it and go away, 2) tell them how right and wonderful they are, or 3) concede defeat just so they'll shut up.

They do this under the guise of "standing for Truth", but standing for Truth doesn't entail making everyone else walk lock-step with you in everything you believe. It simply means YOU don't compromise what YOU believe.

 

[jeolmstead]

Things I try to remember:

The only behavior I have any control over is my own, and, that only through Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit.

My good or bad behavior, my level of love and respect is not contingent on the behavior of others.

I have no right to be less loving or less respectful of those who oppose my views.

On a forum my opinions weigh no more then anyone else’s.

I post what I believe in all humility, knowing I have been wrong before and will be again.

If you ask for my coat I will give you my shirt as well. If compelled to go a mile, I’ll choose to go two.

I invite people to read what I say, compare it to what others say, and most of all try to understand what God is really saying about the issue.

I do not have a right to expect anyone to listen to me, especially if I’m mean and un loving towards them. In that case I am just tingling brass and a clanging gong.

Today I will concentrate on the board in my own eye.


John O.

 

[millerrod]

Let's stop here for a moment. You have presupposed that WoF teachings "hurt people", but that's simply not true. It is not WoF teachings that are damaging. It is the misuse, misunderstanding, and abuse of teachings taken to an extreme that hurt people. You will find that in every denomination, in every belief, in every church.

You KNOW it's in error? Really? Because for 30 years, I've lived and walked in these beliefs. I've been through good times and bad. Through it all, God has sustained me. And NO HURT and or suffering has come as a result of the teachings I've heard. None. At. All.

What an overt simplification of WoF teaching this is.

And here is yet ANOTHER misrepresentation. WoF doesn't teach that God never corrects us. Of course you've been told that before, many times, and you STILL propagate the false notion that WoF doesn't believe that God corrects us.

It would be more accurate to say that WoF doesn't believe that God corrects us the way that you believe He corrects us.

I can make the same argument of your teaching. What if you teach someone that their sickness is from God to "correct" them, when in reality, God wants to heal them? So you plant seeds of doubt in people, and in doing so, you prolong their suffering. This is a 2-way street, Rod.

I've got a news flash for you. You aren't everyone's father. The people on this forum are NOT your children. Each and every person here has the ability to go to the throne room of grace and talk to THE Father themselves.

Are you STILL bearing false witness against people?

If this were a CLEAR issue, it would have been resolved long ago. But the doctrinal and theological implications of what happened from the time Jesus died on the cross until the time He ascended to take His place at the right hand of the Father has been debated for FAR LONGER than CF has been around, and is not divided along the WoF/non-WoF line equally.

In doing so, you come across as nothing but prideful. You start a thread, in which you DISALLOW debate, which essentially says, listen to me, because I have the one and only answer, bump it repeatedly, which, by the way, is considered bad form on most every other forum on the Internet, simply because you think it's some kind of wonderful, and try to FORCE people to hear YOUR VERSION of the truth, rather than guiding them to the Holy Spirit, who is the one and only Person that can lead people to the Truth. You seem to feel like it is your responsibility to guide people to the "truth", and it is not. It is up to each person to seek after God for themselves, as He guides them into the Truth.

Apparently, you also believe that you must bear false witness against people to make your point.

Additionally, please don't ask or think that we will sit quietly when additional, man-made requirements are heaped upon the grace of God, and the free gift of Salvation that He provided for us.

Thats strange i was talking about all fasle teaching in general . Its strange you jumped to the conclusion you did. Dont take it so personal there are many doctrines which are false in their teachings. many of us stand against teachings that are not found within scripture because God says to. Not against the people following these doctrines. For them we pray.
As someone who has many times and will many more times error in my own thinking. I pray i have brothers and sister which will stand and point out an error in the words i use to teach others. At the monent they do it anger and conviction may flair within me but as this passes i respect and love them for caring enough to say Brother your in error instead of just ignoring it not wanting to mess up their hair or be bothered. rod

 

[Alpine]

Alpine - thanks for trying,

I guess I didn't even stop to think it could turn into another argument.

 

[millerrod]

God bless you, Alpine. Your excellent message here, unfortunately, will fall on many deaf ears.

There are, unfortunately, people who simply do not care. All they want to do is tell you how wrong you are and how right they are. They think they have "the Truth" and they'll stop at nothing to cram it down your throat until you either 1) get tired of it and go away, 2) tell them how right and wonderful they are, or 3) concede defeat just so they'll shut up.

They do this under the guise of "standing for Truth", but standing for Truth doesn't entail making everyone else walk lock-step with you in everything you believe. It simply means YOU don't compromise what YOU believe.

Actually there is but ONE TRUTH and that is GODS TRUTH not my truth not your truth
We are not trying to change anyone within any movment we are trying to help others avoid a trap by pointing out errors found in written teachings.
The finger pointing is not ours, but the finger of Gods Words which points out error in false teaching. Many always have and always will hate the vessel which God uses to do so.

 

[probinson]

Thats strange i was talking about all fasle teaching in general . Its strange you jumped to the conclusion you did.

Um, OK then....

The weight of guilt of being poor or sick and being taught its your fault your faith is not what it should be or maybe you didnt pray with the right people.

And the hurt and distruction which comes from vanity and pride if you are healthy or if you are rich after all its all because you had the right amount of faith.

And what are we teaching when we say our Father never corrects us yet Gods word says spare the rod spoil the child are we not the sons and daughters of God who need corection from our Father at times when we error in Gods Ways.

Yet it is taught here that somehow the Trinity of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit could die in part or seperate in part. and no matter how you paint it that is clearly nontrinitarian

It's good to see you were just speaking about "all false teachings in general", and not any specific teachings. It's a huge mystery, and one can only but fathom how I "jumped to the conclusion did"....