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Obama Forced to Explain "Typical White Person"

IisJustMe

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You might as well give up the argument, IisJustMe. Obviously you're arguing with a typical black person. If anyone's offended by that, too bad. I doubt you'd know what irony is anyway.
I don't why they'd be offended. They don't see anything offensive about Sen. Obama's "typical white person" remark.
This may not have the effect that some are hoping for. This is beginning to look as if White America is going to stop feeling so guilty about the past. It looks as if Black America may have overplayed their hand.
I've never felt guilty about the past because I had nothing to do with it. However, I have felt badly for those who were victimized by the utterly stupid act of prejudice and racism directed toward them. However, I'm going to stop being silent when someone too young to have experienced "Jim Crow" or water hoses in Alabama starts whining about "injustice" and "subjugation" that no longer exists in this country. They don't have a clue what those things are, and never will. It's become an excuse instead of a legitimate complaint.
 
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Lisa0315

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I don't why they'd be offended. They don't see anything offensive about Sen. Obama's "typical white person" remark.I've never felt guilty about the past because I had nothing to do with it. However, I have felt badly for those who were victimized by the utterly stupid act of prejudice and racism directed toward them. However, I'm going to stop being silent when someone too young to have experienced "Jim Crow" or water hoses in Alabama starts whining about "injustice" and "subjugation" that no longer exists in this country. They don't have a clue what those things are, and never will. It's become an excuse instead of a legitimate complaint.

I am afraid that might lead to violence...against you.

Lisa
 
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PassionFruit

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Tell me you don't agree with him. You share his misguided perception of white people, so why wouldn't you?

Actually no I don't agree with him, but it seems you're already convinced that I do agree with him. I don't have any misguided perceptions, you can believe that all you want. Do you want to know how I really felt about that, or are you just going to assume that I believe white people are like that? It seems like you're the one who is now making false generalizations.

You didn't have to say it. The tone of your post confirmed it. But again, you don't understand that, which is the whole problem.

Oh I see, my tone confirmed, how would you know what my tone was, this is a internet discussion forum, you don't know what my tone was.

I didn't believe that. My point, and Lisa's too, is that you felt it necessary to illustrate your viewpoint from the post you made before that by sharing this story. Anytime you use a personal experience to illustrate a point, you are saying "this story explains my perspective," meaning that you, whether consciously or subconsciously, expect all white people to be as ignorant as that young woman is about black-authored social science literature. You can justify it anyway you want, but the bottom line is, you are perpetuating racial bias as surely as Jeremiah Wright, Barak Obama, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson or for that matter, David Duke. Forgive me, but he is the only white person I can think of right now who is an overt racist. The black community is filled with them. That's pretty sad.

I didn't mean for it to come off like that. But it seems you misunderstood what I was saying. Let me make something clear to you, I don't expect all white people to be ignorant of black social science literature, which is why I was trying to explain why I was surprised by the young woman's statement. I thought I had explained that, I thought I had explained my shock towards her, because I didn't expect that kind of ignorance. Understand? You're getting [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ed off because I was talking about personal experience I had and assumed that I believe that all whites behave like that.

I can see now that I was in the wrong and I'm sorry about that . Like I said, I didn't mean for it to come off like that. But don't accuse me of having the same racial bias of Sharpton or Wright for that matter.
 
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Lisa0315

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Actually no I don't agree with him, but it seems you're already convinced that I do agree with him. I don't have any misguided perceptions, you can believe that all you want. Do you want to know how I really felt about that, or are you just going to assume that I believe white people are like that? It seems like you're the one who is now making false generalizations.



Oh I see, my tone confirmed, how would you know what my tone was, this is a internet discussion forum, you don't know what my tone was.



I didn't mean for it to come off like that. But it seems you misunderstood what I was saying. Let me make something clear to you, I don't expect all white people to be ignorant of black social science literature, which is why I was trying to explain why I was surprised by the young woman's statement. I thought I had explained that, I thought I had explained my shock towards her, because I didn't expect that kind of ignorance. Understand? You're getting [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ed off because I was talking about personal experience I had and assumed that I believe that all whites behave like that.

I can see now that I was in the wrong and I'm sorry about that . Like I said, I didn't mean for it to come off like that. But don't accuse me of having the same racial bias of Sharpton or Wright for that matter.

Thanks! That is all that I needed to hear. I knew you didn't mean anything by it. It is just something that we all do without even thinking about it. It generally is not with hostile intent or real racism. It is just one of those cultural things that we all do. I guess my point was to show you that it is not one sided as in only whites do it.

See?

Lisa
 
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IisJustMe

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I can see now that I was in the wrong and I'm sorry about that . Like I said, I didn't mean for it to come off like that. But don't accuse me of having the same racial bias of Sharpton or Wright for that matter.
I'm sorry I had to go to those extremes, and I'm sorry if I offended you. Somehow I had to get through the defenses to show you the wrong of your statement. Thanks for coming around to that viewpoint, even though there may be other issues or pieces of this issue we disagree on. I pray the things said on this thread help everyone understand "the other side's viewpoint" more clearly.
 
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PassionFruit

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hmm...Again, from the outside looking in...

This may not have the effect that some are hoping for. This is beginning to look as if White America is going to stop feeling so guilty about the past. It looks as if Black America may have overplayed their hand.

Lisa

I actually apologize to you Lisa, because I was trying to explain my initial shock, I don't assume that all whites are like Barack Obama's grandmother or like the woman in the store. Which is why I was trying to explain my initial shock.

But what I'm surprised about this is how come no one questioning these encounters? Why do you think Obama has a grandmother that would feel the way she does despite having a black grandson? Why didn't that woman in Barnes & Noble didn't know there were black authors who wrote on subjects like social science? How often do you believe that people of color have these sort of experience? To me this is an indication of not making any progress.
 
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PassionFruit

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I'm sorry I had to go to those extremes, and I'm sorry if I offended you. Somehow I had to get through the defenses to show you the wrong of your statement. Thanks for coming around to that viewpoint, even though there may be other issues or pieces of this issue we disagree on. I pray the things said on this thread help everyone understand "the other side's viewpoint" more clearly.

Apology accepted.

Al Sharpton! Accccccccck! :swoon:

:)
 
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PassionFruit

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I'm sorry I had to go to those extremes, and I'm sorry if I offended you. Somehow I had to get through the defenses to show you the wrong of your statement. Thanks for coming around to that viewpoint, even though there may be other issues or pieces of this issue we disagree on. I pray the things said on this thread help everyone understand "the other side's viewpoint" more clearly.

Apology accepted. :)
 
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Lisa0315

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I actually apologize to you Lisa, because I was trying to explain my initial shock, I don't assume that all whites are like Barack Obama's grandmother or like the woman in the store. Which is why I was trying to explain my initial shock.

But what I'm surprised about this is how come no one questioning these encounters? Why do you think Obama has a grandmother that would feel the way she does despite having a black grandson? Why didn't that woman in Barnes & Noble didn't know there were black authors who wrote on subjects like social science? How often do you believe that people of color have these sort of experience? To me this is an indication of not making any progress.

How often do you think these same things happen to white folks? Within my own little microcosm, I have heard the following: I may have shared this with you before, I don't remember, but bear with me.

I have been asked why ALL white men have to blow their noses after they eat.

When we all went in together on food, and I was collecting the money, I was asked if I was charging a black tax. After a good laugh, I was then told they weren't paying the black tax until they received their 40 acres and a mule.

I had a girl wear a Lynyrd Skynyrd t-shirt to work to see what my reaction would be. My reaction was to call her a pseudo fan and wear a Jimi Hendrix T-shirt the very next chance I had.

Of greater concern, is the co-worker who attended one of these rallys and came back "empowered". She actually was not as empowered as she became incredibly paranoid. She told me that she was going to start doing as the white folks did to get ahead. Apparantly, this included lying about people, blaming others for her mistakes, and being extremely hostile.

This all occurred at my place of employment in which I was working when I found out about my heritage. (My father was absentee but I made contact with him for a short time when I was 33) Up until then, I thought I was white except for MAYBE some distant Indian blood on my mothers side.

These folks were around when this happened, have known me before and after, know how sensitive I am about it, and still, treat me like I am the white enemy at times. If I looked white, then, I must BE white, right?

When I received a promotion, I was told that the other person didn't because she was black. I thought this implied that she thought my promotion was because I was white which insulted all of the work that I had done and the effort.

I have heard white [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] said about one of our bosses and I am not supposed to be offended if I am REALLY not white.

I have had another lady come up to me and hold her arm beside of me in the summer and tell me that I was "getting there".

Do not EVEN pretend to me that racism is one-sided, okay? I see it on both sides, and these days, I see more of it from the black community.

My hairdresser told me that ALL BLACK people hate ALL ASIANS and ALL MEXICANS. She did not say why.

On 9-12-2001, we were all sitting in the breakroom, and it was black women who first began making really, really bad comments about our Muslim co-workers. I told them that it would be very easy to go down that path, but we may never be the same if we did.

I am known to be a Christian and someone who will speak up when something is not right. I do a good job here and my work is respected but many times, as a person, I am not.

Considering my Cherokee/White/Mutt heritage, it can only be because of my skin color not being dark enough.

Oh, and one more thing, if the Farakhans and the Wrights ever suceed in their agenda, and white America is subjugated as black America once was, who do you think their next target will be? It will be peoples of other colors and then it will be those within the black community who express doubt that the methods or the ideas are wrong. Isn't this already happening?

One of my black friends went to an all white girl school for a year or so. She told me that she suffered more from her black friends than from the white girls at her school. She was made to feel more of a freak by her black sisters than from anyone else. If she picked up a word or a way of dressing, or an expression, whatever, her black friends told her she was trying to be white.

There is something deeply wrong in the black community, and guess what, it is not someone elses fault.

From my perspective, there is deep hatred that goes both outward and inward and only God can heal that. If the black community persists in seeing themselves as victims and they persist in this angry attitude towards everyone including their own, they are going to implode. I do not want to be in the middle of that.

In a way, I am glad this has happened because I think this is the most honest discussion (going on all over, not just at CF or this thread) that has happened in the history of our race issues.

We desperately need another MLKjr that will speak to the black community and raise their dignity and teach them to not blame others.

In the 1960's and beyond, you really did not have the same opportunities, but you do now. In fact, in many ways, minorities have MORE opportunities.

You do not have to prove that you are a minority to get a minority scholarship. I do. Proving myself Cherokee is difficult when you are not in touch with that side of the family, and the most you have are pictures of tombstones and family trees that can be followed in family Bibles.

My hope is that the love of Jesus Christ will pour through this country because I honestly believe it is the ONLY thing that is going to prevent this country from completely falling apart.

Lisa

Lisa
 
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PassionFruit

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How often do you think these same things happen to white folks? Within my own little microcosm, I have heard the following: I may have shared this with you before, I don't remember, but bear with me.

I have been asked why ALL white men have to blow their noses after they eat.

When we all went in together on food, and I was collecting the money, I was asked if I was charging a black tax. After a good laugh, I was then told they weren't paying the black tax until they received their 40 acres and a mule.

I had a girl wear a Lynyrd Skynyrd t-shirt to work to see what my reaction would be. My reaction was to call her a pseudo fan and wear a Jimi Hendrix T-shirt the very next chance I had.

Of greater concern, is the co-worker who attended one of these rallys and came back "empowered". She actually was not as empowered as she became incredibly paranoid. She told me that she was going to start doing as the white folks did to get ahead. Apparantly, this included lying about people, blaming others for her mistakes, and being extremely hostile.

This all occurred at my place of employment in which I was working when I found out about my heritage. (My father was absentee but I made contact with him for a short time when I was 33) Up until then, I thought I was white except for MAYBE some distant Indian blood on my mothers side.

These folks were around when this happened, have known me before and after, know how sensitive I am about it, and still, treat me like I am the white enemy at times. If I looked white, then, I must BE white, right?

When I received a promotion, I was told that the other person didn't because she was black. I thought this implied that she thought my promotion was because I was white which insulted all of the work that I had done and the effort.

I have heard white [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] said about one of our bosses and I am not supposed to be offended if I am REALLY not white.

I have had another lady come up to me and hold her arm beside of me in the summer and tell me that I was "getting there".

Do not EVEN pretend to me that racism is one-sided, okay? I see it on both sides, and these days, I see more of it from the black community.

My hairdresser told me that ALL BLACK people hate ALL ASIANS and ALL MEXICANS. She did not say why.

On 9-12-2001, we were all sitting in the breakroom, and it was black women who first began making really, really bad comments about our Muslim co-workers. I told them that it would be very easy to go down that path, but we may never be the same if we did.

I am known to be a Christian and someone who will speak up when something is not right. I do a good job here and my work is respected but many times, as a person, I am not.

Considering my Cherokee/White/Mutt heritage, it can only be because of my skin color not being dark enough.

Oh, and one more thing, if the Farakhans and the Wrights ever suceed in their agenda, and white America is subjugated as black America once was, who do you think their next target will be? It will be peoples of other colors and then it will be those within the black community who express doubt that the methods or the ideas are wrong. Isn't this already happening?

One of my black friends went to an all white girl school for a year or so. She told me that she suffered more from her black friends than from the white girls at her school. She was made to feel more of a freak by her black sisters than from anyone else. If she picked up a word or a way of dressing, or an expression, whatever, her black friends told her she was trying to be white.

There is something deeply wrong in the black community, and guess what, it is not someone elses fault.

From my perspective, there is deep hatred that goes both outward and inward and only God can heal that. If the black community persists in seeing themselves as victims and they persist in this angry attitude towards everyone including their own, they are going to implode. I do not want to be in the middle of that.

In a way, I am glad this has happened because I think this is the most honest discussion (going on all over, not just at CF or this thread) that has happened in the history of our race issues.

We desperately need another MLKjr that will speak to the black community and raise their dignity and teach them to not blame others.

In the 1960's and beyond, you really did not have the same opportunities, but you do now. In fact, in many ways, minorities have MORE opportunities.

You do not have to prove that you are a minority to get a minority scholarship. I do. Proving myself Cherokee is difficult when you are not in touch with that side of the family, and the most you have are pictures of tombstones and family trees that can be followed in family Bibles.

My hope is that the love of Jesus Christ will pour through this country because I honestly believe it is the ONLY thing that is going to prevent this country from completely falling apart.

Lisa

Lisa

Well many black people don't see themselves as victims, I don't. On another issue, I had experienced hostile treatment from black peers. I went to all white school growing up and I had more friends. And then I attended a school where there are mostly black people. So yes I'm familiar with that. The reason why I believe this occurred is because internalized oppression.

Internalized oppression is something that's happening with the black community and probably even other minorities, which is why people seem to believe that blacks play victim. What's internalized oppression? Basically it's the belief that a particular beliefs the negative stereotypes about their group. Or hold "oppressive" beliefs towards their own groups. For instance, for black people, that means believing they're "gang bangers, welfare queens", etc. The problem with this is that in can turn into "anti-achievement." (That's probably the wrong term). Achievement is sometimes associated with acting "white." If you believe that you're a "gang banger, thug, welfare queen" then you're not very likely to believe you can achieve anything. But any group can face internalized oppression. It's a psychological condition. I tutor inner city school kids when I have the time, and they have indications of internalized oppression. Since half the students are black, in a sense they believe they can't believe they can be successful unless they become rappers. :( Hopefully, me tutoring them will help them understand this isn't case.

I wasn't assuming these experiences don't happen to white people.


In the 1960's and beyond, you really did not have the same opportunities, but you do now. In fact, in many ways, minorities have MORE opportunities.

Yes, that's true, but there are still some black youth who don't know this. That's another issue, which could touch upon the internalized oppression thing.

Oh, and one more thing, if the Farakhans and the Wrights ever suceed in their agenda, and white America is subjugated as black America once was, who do you think their next target will be? It will be peoples of other colors and then it will be those within the black community who express doubt that the methods or the ideas are wrong. Isn't this already happening?

This is a bit of a stretch because they don't have that kind of power, and I don't believe they ever will. So no this isn't happening. It wasn't just blacks who have been subjugated in the past.

There is something deeply wrong in the black community, and guess what, it is not someone elses fault.

From my perspective, there is deep hatred that goes both outward and inward and only God can heal that. If the black community persists in seeing themselves as victims and they persist in this angry attitude towards everyone including their own, they are going to implode. I do not want to be in the middle of that.

Again, this is a stretch, many blacks don't seem themselves as victims. The ones that do, or probably buying into the idea that they're victims. And I never said it was anyones fault of the problems faced within the black community. That's another thing about these discussions, people don't seem to know that blacks are making progress within the community, because we think were victims. More blacks are owning businesses, attending college, becoming active in their communities. So no, blacks don't always blame others for what's wrong in their communities.
 
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fated

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Well many black people don't see themselves as victims, I don't. On another issue, I had experienced hostile treatment from black peers. I went to all white school growing up and I had more friends. And then I attended a school where there are mostly black people. So yes I'm familiar with that. The reason why I believe this occurred is because internalized oppression.

Internalized oppression is something that's happening with the black community and probably even other minorities, which is why people seem to believe that blacks play victim. What's internalized oppression? Basically it's the belief that a particular beliefs the negative stereotypes about their group. Or hold "oppressive" beliefs towards their own groups. For instance, for black people, that means believing they're "gang bangers, welfare queens", etc. The problem with this is that in can turn into "anti-achievement." (That's probably the wrong term). Achievement is sometimes associated with acting "white." If you believe that you're a "gang banger, thug, welfare queen" then you're not very likely to believe you can achieve anything. But any group can face internalized oppression. It's a psychological condition. I tutor inner city school kids when I have the time, and they have indications of internalized oppression. Since half the students are black, in a sense they believe they can't believe they can be successful unless they become rappers. :( Hopefully, me tutoring them will help them understand this isn't case.

I wasn't assuming these experiences don't happen to white people.




Yes, that's true, but there are still some black youth who don't know this. That's another issue, which could touch upon the internalized oppression thing.



This is a bit of a stretch because they don't have that kind of power, and I don't believe they ever will. So no this isn't happening. It wasn't just blacks who have been subjugated in the past.



Again, this is a stretch, many blacks don't seem themselves as victims. The ones that do, or probably buying into the idea that they're victims. And I never said it was anyones fault of the problems faced within the black community. That's another thing about these discussions, people don't seem to know that blacks are making progress within the community, because we think were victims. More blacks are owning businesses, attending college, becoming active in their communities. So no, blacks don't always blame others for what's wrong in their communities.
This happens to white people, especially poor white (you know rednecks, hill billy's)...
 
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fated

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Well many black people don't see themselves as victims, I don't. On another issue, I had experienced hostile treatment from black peers. I went to all white school growing up and I had more friends. And then I attended a school where there are mostly black people. So yes I'm familiar with that. The reason why I believe this occurred is because internalized oppression.

Internalized oppression is something that's happening with the black community and probably even other minorities, which is why people seem to believe that blacks play victim. What's internalized oppression? Basically it's the belief that a particular beliefs the negative stereotypes about their group. Or hold "oppressive" beliefs towards their own groups. For instance, for black people, that means believing they're "gang bangers, welfare queens", etc. The problem with this is that in can turn into "anti-achievement." (That's probably the wrong term). Achievement is sometimes associated with acting "white." If you believe that you're a "gang banger, thug, welfare queen" then you're not very likely to believe you can achieve anything. But any group can face internalized oppression. It's a psychological condition. I tutor inner city school kids when I have the time, and they have indications of internalized oppression. Since half the students are black, in a sense they believe they can't believe they can be successful unless they become rappers. :( Hopefully, me tutoring them will help them understand this isn't case.

I wasn't assuming these experiences don't happen to white people.




Yes, that's true, but there are still some black youth who don't know this. That's another issue, which could touch upon the internalized oppression thing.



This is a bit of a stretch because they don't have that kind of power, and I don't believe they ever will. So no this isn't happening. It wasn't just blacks who have been subjugated in the past.



Again, this is a stretch, many blacks don't seem themselves as victims. The ones that do, or probably buying into the idea that they're victims. And I never said it was anyones fault of the problems faced within the black community. That's another thing about these discussions, people don't seem to know that blacks are making progress within the community, because we think were victims. More blacks are owning businesses, attending college, becoming active in their communities. So no, blacks don't always blame others for what's wrong in their communities.
This happens to white people, especially poor white (you know rednecks, hill billy's)...
 
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pgp_protector

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You are giving the Republican too much credit. They don't have the attack ads monopolized.
Oh I know that they don't have them monopolized, but you've got to admit there's some good fodder :D
 
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