Are we evolving?

[Sinful2B]

Hi and welcome

God formed us from the dust of the earth and breathed into us His breath of life, and we became a living soul. (that is awesome)

Cloud cuckoo land stuff Brinny.
This is an account upon literature written 1,600 years BEFORE anything in the Bible could possibly have been enscribed:

"Then An, the supreme God, created the other gods, who at the beginning, were obliged to work for their food. One day AMMOU, the goddess-mother of fresh water, asked her son ENKI to create humanity so that by their work, they could bring food to the gods as offerings and sacrifices. Enki, the god of fresh water, without which any harvest was impossible, made the first men with clay."

The original literature is Sumerian, from which ALL the Christian concepts originate. Christianity purely and simply regurgiated these stories and adpated them to their own religion. In that, they did no differently to every other religion contempory with the period; in fact, it was the expected thing to do, to assimilate anothers faith into your own.

Of course, it is completely and totally fabricated mythology.

Christianity's original concepts, lie in the mists of FORMER pagan cultures. Unlike your faith, archaeology has the evidence to prove it.

 

[Loudmouth]

We, us'n, are human beings. I have not considered nor done enough research to agree or disagree at this point if we are considered a 'species'. I would need to look up the origin of the word to determine if I find it a legitimate term or if it's a word that is just taken for granted without giving it any thought, because it is presently the norm to do so.

If it makes you feel better the term "species" was first used in it's modern form by Linnaeus in the 18th century. He was a creationist.

The definition of species for sexually reproducing organisms is a group of organisms that reproduce with each other when given the chance. Two separate species do not reproduce with each other when given the chance. As it pertains to the Modern Synthesis (the modern theory of evolution), it is all about gene flow. That's all there is to it.

In the meantime I define myself as part of the human race, a human being, created in the likeness of my Creator.

A human being is part of the species Homo sapiens which translates from Latin to "wise man". I kind of like it.

We are more than just biological organisms. God formed us from the dust of the earth and breathed into us His breath of life, and we became a living soul. (that is awesome)

That may very well be what you believe, but this description is not useful to scientists in any way. Instead of arguing who is right or wrong it might be better to see how each of our conclusions is helpful in understanding how the human body works and our place among the rest of life on this planet.

Scientists use the theory of evolution to help them compare genomes of different species. In doing so they are capable of discovering the function of genes, the possible sources of genetic diseases, and the source of major morphological changes seen in the evolution of specific lineages. How does "formed us from the dust of the earth" help us understand any of these things? It doesn't. It might be useful for you religious life, but it is useless in science. Scientists are pragmatists. They want theories and methods that work.

If you want to continue to believe that we are all descendants of a single human couple (one from dust, one from a rib) who lived 6,000 years ago you will find the arena of science to be a very frustrating place. The evidence is stacked against you. I would be happy to go through this evidence in a very cordial manner if you so want. You seem to be truly curious without a chip on your shoulder which is a breath of fresh air in this corner of the internet, so I don't want to scare you away just yet.

 

[brinny]

If it makes you feel better the term "species" was first used in it's modern form by Linnaeus in the 18th century. He was a creationist.

The definition of species for sexually reproducing organisms is a group of organisms that reproduce with each other when given the chance. Two separate species do not reproduce with each other when given the chance. As it pertains to the Modern Synthesis (the modern theory of evolution), it is all about gene flow. That's all there is to it.



A human being is part of the species Homo sapiens which translates from Latin to "wise man". I kind of like it.



That may very well be what you believe, but this description is not useful to scientists in any way. Instead of arguing who is right or wrong it might be better to see how each of our conclusions is helpful in understanding how the human body works and our place among the rest of life on this planet.

Scientists use the theory of evolution to help them compare genomes of different species. In doing so they are capable of discovering the function of genes, the possible sources of genetic diseases, and the source of major morphological changes seen in the evolution of specific lineages. How does "formed us from the dust of the earth" help us understand any of these things? It doesn't. It might be useful for you religious life, but it is useless in science. Scientists are pragmatists. They want theories and methods that work.

If you want to continue to believe that we are all descendants of a single human couple (one from dust, one from a rib) who lived 6,000 years ago you will find the arena of science to be a very frustrating place. The evidence is stacked against you. I would be happy to go through this evidence in a very cordial manner if you so want. You seem to be truly curious without a chip on your shoulder which is a breath of fresh air in this corner of the internet, so I don't want to scare you away just yet.

the human body works fine until it crumbles back into the dust from whence it came.

 

[Loudmouth]

the human body works fine until it crumbles back into the dust from whence it came.

I guess you have never worked in a hospital.

 

[Skaloop]

the human body works fine until it crumbles back into the dust from whence it came.

Tell that to people who suffer from cancer, arthritis, Alzheimer's, heart disease, cirrhosis, chronic back pain, Crohn's disease, erectile dysfunction, mental illness, asthma, allergies, osteoporosis, migraines, loss of vision, loss of hearing, irritable bowel syndrome, cataracts, aneurysms, shin splints, ovarian cysts, and myriad other ailments.

The human body is far from "fine" if it betrays so many human people in so many different ways.

 

[Loudmouth]

My guess is that brinny is under the age of 25. When you hit your thirties you start to see how the body comes up short. Afterall, I should be able to bowl three games without messing up my lower back (stoopid lumbars).

 

[Tomk80]

My guess is that brinny is under the age of 25. When you hit your thirties you start to see how the body comes up short. Afterall, I should be able to bowl three games without messing up my lower back (stoopid lumbars).

Perhaps. Or she doesn't have any allergies that can make your life a living hell at times when you're five years old and love animals, especially furry ones.

 

[keith99]

Perhaps. Or she doesn't have any allergies that can make your life a living hell at times when you're five years old and love animals, especially furry ones.

And she lives in North America, Western Europe or japan and never talked to her parents about how it was when they were children. Measles, Mumps, Chicken Pox oh and Polio. I had a classmate whose legs were useless because of the last, but at that he fared better than many, he lived through it.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

no we don't.

Well, actually, we do. Life fits neatly into nested heirarchies no matter which angle you look at it: genetic similarities, ERV distribution, etc. Indeed, notice how feathers only appear on one group of organisms. It's almost as if they all descended from one original feathered species...
Or mammals: all mammals have a variety of unique features (three middle ear bones, hair, lactating sweat glands, a neocortex, etc), yet no other organism has even one of these features.
Why?

 

[atomweaver]

don't see no resemblence, nope.

You don't, huh? Well, perhaps a visual aid will assist you ;-)

What's most interesting is, in nearly every picture pair, both the Leader of the Free World and the chimp are basically expressing the exact same emotions... You don't need ERVs and DNA analyses to see that Humans are a variety of ape.

 

[Nitron]

don't see no resemblence, nope. What happened to the apes anyway...why haven't they evolved? Did they get stuck in a time-warp?

Both us and modern apes are very different from ancestral apes.

 

[brinny]

Both us and modern apes are very different from ancestral apes.

now ya' see? that don't make no sense.

 

[brinny]

You don't, huh? Well, perhaps a visual aid will assist you ;-)

What's most interesting is, in nearly every picture pair, both the Leader of the Free World and the chimp are basically expressing the exact same emotions... You don't need ERVs and DNA analyses to see that Humans are a variety of ape.

ROFL!!

 

[Wiccan_Child]

now ya' see? that don't make no sense.

Why not? Once upon a time, there was a species of organism we'll call Proto-Ape. Over time, the population of Proto-Apes grew, and with each generation new mutations were thrown into the mix. Over more time, the population was so big that it split into groups. Some groups preferred to eat on the ground. Others, on the trees. However, they were all capable of breeding with their group, but it was getting rarer and rarer for inter-group breeding to occur. Over hundreds of thousands of years, mutations that arose and accumulated in one group stayed in one group, since interbreeding was so rare. This also meant that the average genome of each group was steadily becoming more dissimilar from the other groups.

Eventually, even if one group member managed to copulate with the member of another group, the gametes (sperm and eggs) didn't recognise each other! They were just too dissimilar for fertilisation to occur.

Thus, speciation had occured: the original Proto-Ape species had speciated into a number of groups. Eventually, this process has led to the human species and its cousins, though it won't end there.

For other examples, look at equines: they are on the cusp of speciation. The gametes of a horse and donkey, for instance, can still recognise each other enough to form a viable organism (i.e., it successfully gestates), but are too dissimilar to let it function properly. In this case, it is sterile.

For another example, look at the Great Cats: lions and tigers can still interbreed and form a hybrid (so-called ligers and tions). They are on the other side of the cusp of speciation from equines.

Questions? Comments?

 

[brinny]

Why not? Once upon a time, there was a species of organism we'll call Proto-Ape. Over time, the population of Proto-Apes grew, and with each generation new mutations were thrown into the mix. Over more time, the population was so big that it split into groups. Some groups preferred to eat on the ground. Others, on the trees. However, they were all capable of breeding with their group, but it was getting rarer and rarer for inter-group breeding to occur. Over hundreds of thousands of years, mutations that arose and accumulated in one group stayed in one group, since interbreeding was so rare. This also meant that the average genome of each group was steadily becoming more dissimilar from the other groups.

Eventually, even if one group member managed to copulate with the member of another group, the gametes (sperm and eggs) didn't recognise each other! They were just too dissimilar for fertilisation to occur.

Thus, speciation had occured: the original Proto-Ape species had speciated into a number of groups. Eventually, this process has led to the human species and its cousins, though it won't end there.

For other examples, look at equines: they are on the cusp of speciation. The gametes of a horse and donkey, for instance, can still recognise each other enough to form a viable organism (i.e., it successfully gestates), but are too dissimilar to let it function properly. In this case, it is sterile.

For another example, look at the Great Cats: lions and tigers can still interbreed and form a hybrid (so-called ligers and tions). They are on the other side of the cusp of speciation from equines.

Questions? Comments?

intersting post...i'm chewin' on it

 

[Wiccan_Child]

intersting post...i'm chewin' on it

I look forward to your response ;p.

 

[brinny]

it's a lot to chew on.....in the back of my mind i'm thinkin' ok, here's a theory.....i gotta think about it some more...i'm too tired to 'research' it tonight...i'm mulling over what genome means.

i do appreciate you breakin' it down so skillfully, thanks.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

it's a lot to chew on.....in the back of my mind i'm thinkin' ok, here's a theory.....i gotta think about it some more...i'm too tired to 'research' it tonight...i'm mulling over what genome means.

One's genome is one's sequence of DNA (specifically, the sequence of codons A, C, G, and T). So starting with the first chromosome and working all the way along to the end of the last, you get a huge string of letters. This sequence is called your genome.
The average genome, then, is all the bits shared by the individuals, and the most common bits elsewhere. Sorta.

i do appreciate you breakin' it down so skillfully, thanks.

Not at all. Clarity is the key to understanding, my teacher always used to say.

 

[brinny]

One's genome is one's sequence of DNA (specifically, the sequence of codons A, C, G, and T). So starting with the first chromosome and working all the way along to the end of the last, you get a huge string of letters. This sequence is called your genome.
The average genome, then, is all the bits shared by the individuals, and the most common bits elsewhere. Sorta.


Not at all. Clarity is the key to understanding, my teacher always used to say.

Thanks again.

Clarity is one of my favorite words.

i gotta get offline before i fall asleep on the keyboard.

g'nite

 

[brinny]

this thread was buried, mon

I have a witness to testify that he in no wayz iz related to me...and he's credible...go ahead...ask him if he's related to brinny