• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Does the Roman Church focus on Peter too much

  • Thread starter LittleLambofJesus
  • Start date

RCs and Peter vs Paul

  • Yes they focus on Peter, the Apostle to the Jews, too much

  • No they do not focus on Peter, the Apostle to the Jews, too much

  • I don't know, but am willing to learn more on this


Results are only viewable after voting.

ScottBot

Revolutionary
May 2, 2005
50,468
1,441
58
a state of desperation
✟57,712.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Here:

The Christians expected to take control of the Roman empire. But if you get the Roman empire, you get all the infrastructure that goes with it. You get the roads, the mail system etc. With the conversion of Constantine, the early Christians acquired all this for the spreading of the Gospel.Now, I ask you, who still has Rome? ... and will possess it forever?Answer: The Holy Catholic Church
The Christians expected to take possession of the 4th kingdon, the Roman Empire, based on Daniel's prophecy and the conversion experiences of the rulers of the previous 3 kingdoms. As I previously noted, that why the popes into the 4th century were all martyred in Rome. They were working towards that end; taking possession of the Roman Empire. Once it happened, with Constantine, the Church was able to make use of all the infrastructure of the empire to spread the Gospel worldwide. The sudden shift in focus and ability, causes some to mistakenly claim that the post Constantine Church is the emergence of the Catholic Church.



From: http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=43769767&postcount=224
Sounds like a good plan to me. The Church was given the divine mission to spread the Gospel. Sounds like using an existing infrastructure to hasten that work is just smart thinking.
 
Upvote 0

Uphill Battle

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2005
18,279
1,221
48
✟23,416.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Equal an undefined portion of Tradition regarding the nature of Papal Authority and Apostolic Authority. And seriously, I have not been able to find a direct contradiction. Any supposed contradiction I have been shown is not a contradiction any more than what atheists consider contradictions in the Bible.
then I cannot understand why the two are not united.
 
Upvote 0

holdon

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2005
5,375
97
67
✟6,041.00
Faith
Christian
Sounds like a good plan to me. The Church was given the divine mission to spread the Gospel. Sounds like using an existing infrastructure to hasten that work is just smart thinking.

Good plan???

This is what is said of her who controls the beast (ie Roman Empire):

And the angel said to me, Why hast thou wondered? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast which carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 17:8 The beast which thou sawest was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go into destruction: and they who dwell on the earth, whose names are not written from the founding of the world in the book of life, shall wonder, seeing the beast, that it was, and is not, and shall be present. 17:9 Here is the mind that has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains, whereon the woman sits.
 
Upvote 0

ScottBot

Revolutionary
May 2, 2005
50,468
1,441
58
a state of desperation
✟57,712.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Good plan???

This is what is said of her who controls the beast (ie Roman Empire):

And the angel said to me, Why hast thou wondered? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast which carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 17:8 The beast which thou sawest was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go into destruction: and they who dwell on the earth, whose names are not written from the founding of the world in the book of life, shall wonder, seeing the beast, that it was, and is not, and shall be present. 17:9 Here is the mind that has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains, whereon the woman sits.
Here, it would benefit you to read this from both sides of the fence so you can be a little more objective.

Hunting the harlot of Babylon

Some anti-Catholics claim the Catholic Church is the harlot of Babylon of Revelation 17 and 18. Dave Hunt, in his 1994 book, A Woman Rides the Beast, presents nine arguments to try to prove this. His claims are a useful summary of those commonly used by Fundamentalists, and an examination of them shows why they don’t work.

from: http://www.catholic.com/library/Hunting_the_Whore_of_Babylon.asp
 
Upvote 0

holdon

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2005
5,375
97
67
✟6,041.00
Faith
Christian
Here, it would benefit you to read this from both sides of the fence so you can be a little more objective.

Hunting the harlot of Babylon

Some anti-Catholics claim the Catholic Church is the harlot of Babylon of Revelation 17 and 18. Dave Hunt, in his 1994 book, A Woman Rides the Beast, presents nine arguments to try to prove this. His claims are a useful summary of those commonly used by Fundamentalists, and an examination of them shows why they don’t work.

from: http://www.catholic.com/library/Hunting_the_Whore_of_Babylon.asp

Well, I must say that I wasn't aware that the Roman Catholic position was put so blatantly as Trento did.

You may claim the Roman Catholic Church is not the harlot, I respect that. However, a woman riding the beast and having her seat in Rome, plus all the ostentatious things, plus the fact that at least in the mind of some Romanos, like yourself apparently, the Church did capture control of the Roman Empire, may be that Hunt wasn't too far off. (I haven't read any of it).
 
Upvote 0

Uphill Battle

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2005
18,279
1,221
48
✟23,416.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
ok, here's a good way to settle this.


Peter Peter Peter, Peter. Peter Peter. Petey Petey Pete Pete, Pedro Peter Pete. Peter Peter Peter Peter, Cephas Peter Simon Bar Jonah Peter. Peter Peter Pumkin Eater Peter Peter Peter. Peter out, Skippy Peter Butter Peter Peter Peter Frampton Peter Peter Pete Pete Sampras Peter Pete. Petey Petey Peter Peter Mansbridge Peter.

now it can be said that Uphill Battle is more obsessed with Peter than anyone else, and the RC can take a rest for a bit from having to defend themselves.
 
Upvote 0

ScottBot

Revolutionary
May 2, 2005
50,468
1,441
58
a state of desperation
✟57,712.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
ok, here's a good way to settle this.


Peter Peter Peter, Peter. Peter Peter. Petey Petey Pete Pete, Pedro Peter Pete. Peter Peter Peter Peter, Cephas Peter Simon Bar Jonah Peter. Peter Peter Pumkin Eater Peter Peter Peter. Peter out, Skippy Peter Butter Peter Peter Peter Frampton Peter Peter Pete Pete Sampras Peter Pete. Petey Petey Peter Peter Mansbridge Peter.

now it can be said that Uphill Battle is more obsessed with Peter than anyone else, and the RC can take a rest for a bit.
Look at the OP and search through the forums for threads of a similar nature. You will see that it isn't Catholics who are obsessed with Peter.
 
Upvote 0

ScottBot

Revolutionary
May 2, 2005
50,468
1,441
58
a state of desperation
✟57,712.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Well, I must say that I wasn't aware that the Roman Catholic position was put so blatantly as Trento did.

You may claim the Roman Catholic Church is not the harlot, I respect that. However, a woman riding the beast and having her seat in Rome, plus all the ostentatious things, plus the fact that least in the mind of some Romanos, like yourself apparently, the Church did capture control of the Roman Empire, may be that Hunt wasn't too far off. (I haven't read any of it).
The appropriate terminology is Catholics, not Romanos. At a minimum, that is baiting. In some instances it can be considered flaming. Consider that a friendly price of advice.
 
Upvote 0

Uphill Battle

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2005
18,279
1,221
48
✟23,416.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Look at the OP and search through the forums for threads of a similar nature. You will see that it isn't Catholics who are obsessed with Peter.
I know. I said that earlier in the thread. (Post 23.)

I meant, the RC can take a break from defending themselves. Should have been more clear. I've edited it.
 
Upvote 0

holdon

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2005
5,375
97
67
✟6,041.00
Faith
Christian
The appropriate terminology is Catholics, not Romanos. At a minimum, that is baiting. In some instances it can be considered flaming. Consider that a friendly price of advice.

No, not Catholics. All Christians are Catholics. I dispute that you only can have the title Catholic. You cannot arrogate that title only for yourself. You claim to be of the Church of Rome as was again so eloquently defended by Chestertonrules.

I was chided and reported(was it you?) for the term Romanist (and so often used in all kinds of literature) which in my mind is entirely appropriate and not a slur. So, Romano, might be a good term to indicate where you stand. I would have prefered Romanist (and Romanism) as this school of thought is really an "ism' like in Calvinism, Bapist, etc...
Those of your school of thought claim that the church of Rome has authority over all christians. And that the church of Rome has taken control of the Roman Empire. {The German countries so continued (Das heilige Roemisches Reich deutscher Nation) (the holy Roman Empire of the german people)]

So, reference to you guys as Romanists or other appropriate term to indicate that school of thought is entirely appropriate. It is not a slur and it doesn't take away of the fact that you are Christian and a brother in Christ. So are Calvinists and Baptists....
 
Upvote 0

ScottBot

Revolutionary
May 2, 2005
50,468
1,441
58
a state of desperation
✟57,712.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
I know. I said that earlier in the thread. (Post 23.)

I meant, the RC can take a break from defending themselves. Should have been more clear. I've edited it.
Okay, sorry for the misread of your original post. No harm no foul. :D
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
No, not Catholics. All Christians are Catholics. I dispute that you only can have the title Catholic. You cannot arrogate that title only for yourself. You claim to be of the Church of Rome as was again so eloquently defended by Chestertonrules.

I was chided and reported(was it you?) for the term Romanist (and so often used in all kinds of literature) which in my mind is entirely appropriate and not a slur. So, Romano, might be a good term to indicate where you stand. I would have prefered Romanist (and Romanism) as this school of thought is really an "ism' like in Calvinism, Bapist, etc...
Those of your school of thought claim that the church of Rome has authority over all christians. And that the church of Rome has taken control of the Roman Empire. {The German countries so continued (Das heilige Roemisches Reich deutscher Nation) (the holy Roman Empire of the german people)]

So, reference to you guys as Romanists or other appropriate term to indicate that school of thought is entirely appropriate. It is not a slur and it doesn't take away of the fact that you are Christian and a brother in Christ. So are Calvinists and Baptists.... I
I don't post in OBOB anymore because it is too much trouble to clean my in-box out from all the reports I get but here is a response from a RCCabout the RCC:

http://christianforums.com/t6960319-the-effects-of-the-boycott-of-gt.html

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
Is your purpose for being on GT simply to convert non-RCs to roman catholicism or to discuss the Scriptures? Just curious.


RC: Not necessarily Roman. You could be any of the other 21 Catholic Churches too.

:confused:

LLOJ: I see. But do they not all come under the Roman Pontiff who presides in Rome?

You didn't answer the other question. What about discussing the Scriptures all the way from Genesis to Revelation?

For example, I do not believe in the "real presence" of the eucharist as celebrated in the Roman Catholic Mass, so will I get to heaven for not believing that? Peace
 
Upvote 0

Rick Otto

The Dude Abides
Nov 19, 2002
34,112
7,406
On The Prairie
✟29,593.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Those of your school of thought claim that the church of Rome has authority over all christians.
Are you talkin' about this:
THE BULL UNAM SANCTAM , 1302


The Bull 'Unam Sanctam', in which Pope Boniface VIII asserted his rights against King Phillip the Fair of France, is a landmark in the history of the doctrine of Papal Primacy.
The following English translation of 'Unam' is taken from a doctoral dissertation written in the Dept. of Philosophy at the Catholic University of America, and published by CUA Press in 1927.
UNAM SANCTAM (Promulgated November 18, 1302)
Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins, as the Spouse in the Canticles [Sgs 6:8] proclaims: 'One is my dove, my perfect one. She is the only one, the chosen of her who bore her,' and she represents one sole mystical body whose Head is Christ and the head of Christ is God [1 Cor 11:3]. In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Eph 4:5]. There had been at the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed.
We venerate this Church as one, the Lord having said by the mouth of the prophet: 'Deliver, O God, my soul from the sword and my only one from the hand of the dog.' [Ps 21:20] He has prayed for his soul, that is for himself, heart and body; and this body, that is to say, the Church, He has called one because of the unity of the Spouse, of the faith, of the sacraments, and of the charity of the Church. This is the tunic of the Lord, the seamless tunic, which was not rent but which was cast by lot [Jn 19:23-24]. Therefore, of the one and only Church there is one body and one head, not two heads like a monster; that is, Christ and the Vicar of Christ, Peter and the successor of Peter, since the Lord speaking to Peter Himself said: 'Feed my sheep' [Jn 21:17], meaning, my sheep in general, not these, nor those in particular, whence we understand that He entrusted all to him [Peter]. Therefore, if the Greeks or others should say that they are not confided to Peter and to his successors, they must confess not being the sheep of Christ, since Our Lord says in John 'there is one sheepfold and one shepherd.' We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal. For when the Apostles say: 'Behold, here are two swords' [Lk 22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but sufficient. Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword is in the power of Peter has not listened well to the word of the Lord commanding: 'Put up thy sword into thy scabbard' [Mt 26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered _for_ the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest.
However, one sword ought to be subordinated to the other and temporal authority, subjected to spiritual power. For since the Apostle said: 'There is no power except from God and the things that are, are ordained of God' [Rom 13:1-2], but they would not be ordained if one sword were not subordinated to the other and if the inferior one, as it were, were not led upwards by the other. For, according to the Blessed Dionysius, it is a law of the divinity that the lowest things reach the highest place by intermediaries. Then, according to the order of the universe, all things are not led back to order equally and immediately, but the lowest by the intermediary, and the inferior by the superior. Hence we must recognize the more clearly that spiritual power surpasses in dignity and in nobility any temporal power whatever, as spiritual things surpass the temporal. This we see very clearly also by the payment, benediction, and consecration of the tithes, but the acceptance of power itself and by the government even of things. For with truth as our witness, it belongs to spiritual power to establish the terrestrial power and to pass judgement if it has not been good. Thus is accomplished the prophecy of Jeremias concerning the Church and the ecclesiastical power: 'Behold to-day I have placed you over nations, and over kingdoms' and the rest. Therefore, if the terrestrial power err, it will be judged by the spiritual power; but if a minor spiritual power err, it will be judged by a superior spiritual power; but if the highest power of all err, it can be judged only by God, and not by man, according to the testimony of the Apostle: 'The spiritual man judgeth of all things and he himself is judged by no man' [1 Cor 2:15]. This authority, however, (though it has been given to man and is exercised by man), is not human but rather divine, granted to Peter by a divine word and reaffirmed to him (Peter) and his successors by the One Whom Peter confessed, the Lord saying to Peter himself, 'Whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound also in Heaven' etc., [Mt 16:19]. Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2], unless he invent like Manicheus two beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen 1:1]. Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
I would hope that when RCs come here to post, they will realize most of those on GT are not subject to the Pontiff of Rome and he has no authority here.

LLOJ [feels he may get out of CF jail soon]

http://christianforums.com/t6974305-obob-sucks-now.html


Originally Posted by Suecianus
OBOB is not a safe haven anymore. CC was banned for defending the church, he was lynched by the heretics.

:mad:
 
Upvote 0

ScottBot

Revolutionary
May 2, 2005
50,468
1,441
58
a state of desperation
✟57,712.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Do you really feel it necessary to continually drag conversations from OBOB over to here? Do you see Catholics trolling the Baptist, Peticostal, Presbyterian, Methodost, or whatever boards and posting their congregational discussions here?
 
Upvote 0