Does the Roman Church focus on Peter too much

[holdon]

That is hypocrisy. You say you recognize God ordained authority, but the only authoritative interpretor of scripture you recognize is yourself.

Hypocrisy?? Who it the God ordained authority to interpret scripture???

 

[SwissGuard]

Who is that "authority" speaking in Reve 21...

Ah, I see I am starring in an old western, where the shooter keeps yelling "dance" as he shoots at my feet. Every time I answer a point, you shoot in a different direction. What has the book of the Apocolypse to do with the authority Christ vested in Peter?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That is hypocrisy. You say you recognize God ordained authority, but the only authoritative interpretor of scripture you recognize is yourself.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Job 15:34 For the congregation of hypocrites/02611 chaneph shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.
Job 36:13 But the hypocrites/02611 chaneph in heart heap up wrath: they cry not when he bindeth them.


Matt 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites/upokritai <5273> ! because ye shut the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye enter not in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering in to enter.
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

 

[SwissGuard]

Hypocrisy?? Who it the God ordained authority to interpret scripture???

Not you or me. That is for sure. I have yet to come accross my name in the Bible, as nice as that would be.

 

[mont974x4]

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Job 15:34 For the congregation of hypocrites/02611 chaneph shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.
Job 36:13 But the hypocrites/02611 chaneph in heart heap up wrath: they cry not when he bindeth them.


Matt 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites/upokritai <5273> ! because ye shut the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye enter not in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering in to enter.
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

It's always nice when rc's show their ignorance of what we actually believe...no matter how many times we explain what we really believe and what Scripture says.

 

[SwissGuard]

Well, this has been quite interesting. I have things to do. I shall return later. God bless you all.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

It's always nice when rc's show their ignorance of what we actually believe...no matter how many times we explain what we really believe and what Scripture says.

Mont974x4 you believe the Catholic Church is the Church of God.

Do you dispute this?

I know you do not. So if you disagree at all let us know.

Thanks bro I know you will agree that the Catholic Church is the ONLY Church for Jesus.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Well, this has been quite interesting. I have things to do. I shall return later. God bless you all.

God Bless you Bro.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Since Revelation was written by John with the help of the Holy Spirit, I would read Revelation as God speaking through John and through the centuries.

So would the Jews and Muslims if they would read it

Reve 19:3 and a second time they have declared "Hallelujah and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages"

Ezra 3:12 And many of the priests, and the Levites/Leviyiy, and the Chiefs/ro'sh of the fathers, the elders/zaqen, who had seen the first House/bayith--in this house being founded before their eyes--are weepingwith a loud voice, and many with a Shout, in Joy, lifting up the voice; 13 and the people are not discerning the noise of the shout of joy from the noise of the weeping of the people, for the people are shouting--a great shout--and the noise hath been heard unto a distance.

http://www.nsbible.org/sits_ts/v0s1.htm

The Camp--The Court--The Tabernacle--The Brazen Altar--The Laver-- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Gate--The First Veil--The Second Veil--The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

So would the Jews and Muslims if they would read it

Reve 19:3 and a second time they have declared "Hallelujah and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages"

Ezra 3:12 And many of the priests, and the Levites/Leviyiy, and the Chiefs/ro'sh of the fathers, the elders/zaqen, who had seen the first House/bayith--in this house being founded before their eyes--are weepingwith a loud voice, and many with a Shout, in Joy, lifting up the voice; 13 and the people are not discerning the noise of the shout of joy from the noise of the weeping of the people, for the people are shouting--a great shout--and the noise hath been heard unto a distance.

http://www.nsbible.org/sits_ts/v0s1.htm

The Camp--The Court--The Tabernacle--The Brazen Altar--The Laver-- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Gate--The First Veil--The Second Veil--The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.

Wouldn't it be cool if they became Christians simply by reading scripture?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It's always nice when rc's show their ignorance of what we actually believe...no matter how many times we explain what we really believe and what Scripture says.

What can I say

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Wouldn't it be cool if they became Christians simply by reading scripture?

The Jews do read the Scriptures

2 Corin 3:14 But was calloused the minds of them. For until the today day, the same covering/kalumma <2571> upon the reading of the Old Covenant is remaining, no being up-covered/anakaluptomenon <343> (5746). That In Christ it is being-taken-away/kat-argeitai <2673> (5743).

Revelation 1:1 An un-covering/apo-kaluyiV <602 of Jesus Christ, which gives to Him, the God/YHWH, to show to the bond-servants of Him, what is binding to be becoming in swiftness. And He signifies having commissioned thru the messenger of Him, to the bond-servant of Him, John

 

[mont974x4]

Jack, the rcc is simply another denomination. It wrongfully claims supremecy for itself and for its pope.


Christs true Church is made up of every believer. Every denomination has members of His Church (sheep) as well as non-bleievers (goats) sitting in its pews.


Being a member of a denomination does not equal being a member of His Church...and given the number of errors coming from rome, I pray for strength for true beleivers within its walls and for the salvation of the goats. Of course, I pray that for all denominations.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

The Jews do read the Scriptures

2 Corin 3:14 But was calloused the minds of them. For until the today day, the same covering/kalumma <2571> upon the reading of the Old Covenant is remaining, no being up-covered/anakaluptomenon <343> (5746). That In Christ it is being-taken-away/katargeitai <2673> (5743).

Revelation 1:1 An un-covering/apo-kaluyiV <602 of Jesus Christ, which gives to Him, the God/YHWH, to show to the bond-servants of Him, what is binding to be becoming in swiftness. And He signifies having commissioned thru the messenger of Him, to the bond-servant of Him, John

Yeah... the Old ones.

They even through out some that they felt were promoting Christianity. You know which I speak of? The same Old that Luther used when he threw out Maccabees.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yeah... the Old ones.

They even through out some that they felt were promoting Christianity. You know which I speak of? The same Old that Luther used when he threw out Maccabees.

I never read Maccabees myself as I do not consider it Scripture.

http://www.awitness.org/lostmess/daniel.html

As a final point I have to ask how, after those early churches embarrassed everyone by reading Daniel in an uncritical way and being gullible about the Bible, and prophecy in particular, you really have to wonder why any other modern church would want to do the same thing, repeat the same mistake, and embarrass themselves in the same way as those early churches did. It turns out that there are certain things you can learn by not taking the Bible literally all the time, and this lesson is certainly one of them.

 

[chestertonrules]

Peter, and only Peter, was given the keys of the Kingdom.

This indicates authority. Jesus made Peter his Prime Minister.

Cyprian of Carthage


"The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever things you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth, they shall be loosed also in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]). ... On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were also what Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).

Pope Clement I


"Owing to the sudden and repeated calamities and misfortunes which have befallen us, we must acknowledge that we have been somewhat tardy in turning our attention to the matters in dispute among you, beloved; and especially that abominable and unholy sedition, alien and foreign to the elect of God, which a few rash and self-willed persons have inflamed to such madness that your venerable and illustrious name, worthy to be loved by all men, has been greatly defamed. . . . Accept our counsel and you will have nothing to regret. . . . If anyone disobey the things which have been said by him [God] through us [i.e., that you must reinstate your leaders], let them know that they will involve themselves in transgression and in no small danger. . . . You will afford us joy and gladness if being obedient to the things which we have written through the Holy Spirit, you will root out the wicked passion of jealousy" (Letter to the Corinthians 1, 58–59, 63 [A.D. 80]).

Ignatius of Antioch


"Ignatius . . . to the church also which holds the presidency, in the location of the country of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honor, worthy of blessing, worthy of praise, worthy of success, worthy of sanctification, and, because you hold the presidency in love, named after Christ and named after the Father" (Letter to the Romans 1:1 [A.D. 110]).

"You [the church at Rome] have envied no one, but others you have taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force" (ibid., 3:1).

Ignatius of Antioch


"Ignatius . . . to the church also which holds the presidency, in the location of the country of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honor, worthy of blessing, worthy of praise, worthy of success, worthy of sanctification, and, because you hold the presidency in love, named after Christ and named after the Father" (Letter to the Romans 1:1 [A.D. 110]).

"You [the church at Rome] have envied no one, but others you have taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force" (ibid., 3:1).

Dionysius of Corinth


"For from the beginning it has been your custom to do good to all the brethren in various ways and to send contributions to all the churches in every city. . . . This custom your blessed Bishop Soter has not only preserved, but is augmenting, by furnishing an abundance of supplies to the saints and by urging with consoling words, as a loving father his children, the brethren who are journeying" (Letter to Pope Soter in Eusebius, Church History 4:23:9 [A.D. 170]).

"Today we have observed the Lord’s holy day, in which we have read your letter [Pope Soter]. Whenever we do read it [in church], we shall be able to profit thereby, as also we do when we read the earlier letter written to us by Clement" (ibid., 4:23:11).

Irenaeus


"But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition" (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [A.D. 189]).

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The FOCUS on PETER came from JESUS

You keep telling us that

Reve 1:18 and the living One! And I became dead, and behold, I am living into the Ages of the Ages, and I am having the Keys/kleiV <2807> of the Hades and of the Death

 

[chestertonrules]

Do you deny scripture?

 

[mont974x4]

Peter, and only Peter, was given the keys of the Kingdom.

This indicates authority. Jesus made Peter his Prime Minister.

Cyprian of Carthage


"The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever things you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth, they shall be loosed also in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]). ... On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were also what Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).

Pope Clement I


"Owing to the sudden and repeated calamities and misfortunes which have befallen us, we must acknowledge that we have been somewhat tardy in turning our attention to the matters in dispute among you, beloved; and especially that abominable and unholy sedition, alien and foreign to the elect of God, which a few rash and self-willed persons have inflamed to such madness that your venerable and illustrious name, worthy to be loved by all men, has been greatly defamed. . . . Accept our counsel and you will have nothing to regret. . . . If anyone disobey the things which have been said by him [God] through us [i.e., that you must reinstate your leaders], let them know that they will involve themselves in transgression and in no small danger. . . . You will afford us joy and gladness if being obedient to the things which we have written through the Holy Spirit, you will root out the wicked passion of jealousy" (Letter to the Corinthians 1, 58–59, 63 [A.D. 80]).

Ignatius of Antioch


"Ignatius . . . to the church also which holds the presidency, in the location of the country of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honor, worthy of blessing, worthy of praise, worthy of success, worthy of sanctification, and, because you hold the presidency in love, named after Christ and named after the Father" (Letter to the Romans 1:1 [A.D. 110]).

"You [the church at Rome] have envied no one, but others you have taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force" (ibid., 3:1).

Ignatius of Antioch


"Ignatius . . . to the church also which holds the presidency, in the location of the country of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honor, worthy of blessing, worthy of praise, worthy of success, worthy of sanctification, and, because you hold the presidency in love, named after Christ and named after the Father" (Letter to the Romans 1:1 [A.D. 110]).

"You [the church at Rome] have envied no one, but others you have taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force" (ibid., 3:1).

Dionysius of Corinth


"For from the beginning it has been your custom to do good to all the brethren in various ways and to send contributions to all the churches in every city. . . . This custom your blessed Bishop Soter has not only preserved, but is augmenting, by furnishing an abundance of supplies to the saints and by urging with consoling words, as a loving father his children, the brethren who are journeying" (Letter to Pope Soter in Eusebius, Church History 4:23:9 [A.D. 170]).

"Today we have observed the Lord’s holy day, in which we have read your letter [Pope Soter]. Whenever we do read it [in church], we shall be able to profit thereby, as also we do when we read the earlier letter written to us by Clement" (ibid., 4:23:11).

Irenaeus


"But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition" (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [A.D. 189]).

Scripture denies your ecf's on this. But hey, why let God's Word get in the way of some good propaganda.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Do you deny scripture?

Of course not, as those are the ones that reveal JESUS as the One who takes away the Sin of the World to both the Jews and Us!!!

2 Corin 3:14 But was calloused the minds of them. For until the today day, the same covering/kalumma <2571> upon the reading of the Old Covenantis remaining, no being up-covered/anakaluptomenon <343> (5746). That In Christ it is being-taken-away/katargeitai <2673> (5743).

Revelation 1:1 An un-covering/apo-kaluyiV <602 of Jesus Christ,which gives to Him, the God/YHWH, to show to the bond-servants of Him, what is binding to be becoming in swiftness. And He signifies having commissioned thru the messengerof Him, to the bond-servant of Him, John