TD Jakes

[tturt]

Thank goodness "for the Word of Faith crowd"

 

[JPPT1974]

All I can say is that I hope
That TD really follows Christ as
I think that he does!

 

[aldar]

T.D Jakes,

While I am a believer that the crowd he is often associated with certainly has its fonies... I believe T.D. Jakes to be a sincere man who preaches what he geniunely believes to be true and he does so out of a love for God and God's people. T.D. Jakes wasn't always well off and his ministry didn't always have a silverspoon, he came up from nothing.
I believe in T.D. Jakes.

You should be also be aware that with any ministry that truely prospers their will be great harrassment, many times over petty things like does he believe there are one God or three? Since when is that something that truely matters? People's lives dont get turned around by which form theory on the trinity they believe in. But this sort of thing becomes many peoples point of criticism, lame!

I was once a member of a church with several thousand members, i would often hear the lies people would say about my church.

1. They require a credit check...
2. They require to know your yearly income...

Its all lies made up by bitter, jealous preachers and christians, bishop t.d. Jakes and his church do not want to know your credit score...

I say give the man a chance with no biases...if what he says to you doesn't ring true... then move on.

Also, Bishop T.D Jakes teaches more toward applicable life changing strategy...not dry bone biblical theology... people who criticise T.D Jakes for the biblical theology of his teaches know little of him becuase that is not the main point of his ministry.
It is not his job to teach us exactly what the bible says, its our job to read. It is his job to make us better christians, this is done through teaching us new insight and stragety.
T.D. Jakes' ministry doesn't major on biblical theology as much as it does life strategy.

 

[MikeMcK]

Its all lies made up by bitter, jealous preachers and christians, bishop t.d. Jakes and his church do not want to know your credit score...

But the fact that he is a modalist isn't a lie. It's been very well documented.

I say give the man a chance with no biases...if what he says to you doesn't ring true... then move on.

First of all, we did give him a chance and he taught heresy.

Second, since when are we told to judge truth by "what rings true"? What ever happened with comparing his teaching in light of the word of God?

Also, Bishop T.D Jakes teaches more toward applicable life changing strategy...not dry bone biblical theology... people who criticise T.D Jakes for the biblical theology of his teaches know little of him becuase that is not the main point of his ministry.

OK. So what do we not know that will negate the fact that he is a modalist.

It is not his job to teach us exactly what the bible says

He's a preacher, isn't he? Are you saying that he isn't held to Biblical standards concerning doctrine?

It is his job to make us better christians

How does teaching anybody heresy make them a better Christian?

T.D. Jakes' ministry doesn't major on biblical theology as much as it does life strategy.

Maybe, but his theology is heretical and, according to 2 John, Christians should have nothing to do with him.

 

[aldar]

...

 

[aldar]

Modalism is...

"Modalism is probably the most common theological error concerning the nature of God. It is a denial of the Trinity which states that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three modes, or forms. Thus, God is a single person who first manifested himself in the mode of the Father in Old Testament times. At the incarnation, the mode was the Son. After Jesus' ascension, the mode is the Holy Spirit. These modes are consecutive and never simultaneous. In other words, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time, only one after another. Modalism denies the distinctiveness of the three persons in the Trinity even though it retains the divinity of Christ.
Present day groups that hold to forms of this error are the United Pentecostal and United Apostolic Churches. They deny the Trinity, teach that the name of God is Jesus, and require baptism for salvation. These modalist churches often accuse Trinitarians of teaching three gods. This is not what the Trinity is. The correct teaching of the Trinity is one God in three eternal coexistent persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.... "

This is a petty diffrence...People do not get saved with knowing the exact nature of the trinity as a prerequisit and people do not enter heavon with this as a prerequisit. The bible says they are ONE giving reasonable assumption that there is only one being and Yet Jesus prayed to the father giving reasonable assumption also that the Godhead is made up of three individuals. Both beliefs are reasonable and none ban us from the presence of God or saving Grace.
Bishop T.D Jakes' belief on the trinity is his belief, itis not the point of his ministry and frankly it doesnt maatter, becuase his salvation and no one elses is put in jeapordy by having either of these beliefs.

People who begin to bar and create division or derision in the body of Christ concerning such trivial matters are foolish and rash, this not the Jesus who would rather sit and invite the little children to God. Yes the standard of the word of God is the bedrock of our faith! But people having a diffrent belief on the trinity drives no one from God.

 

[MikeMcK]

He certainly does not teach heresy as I have heard lots of his ministry and certainly I have not just missed it, I do not know what a modelist is and do not care to.

You should care. According to 2 John, people who do not have the correct doctrine of Christ do not have Christ and, thus, are not saved.

Jakes’ Sabellianist heresy is well documented.

Even when given an opportunity is the Christian magazine "Christianity Today" to correct any alleged "misunderstandings" about his heresy, he repeated his belief that God is one person revealed in three manifestations.

The holyspirit leads us to the truth and opens the bible up to us, it is also foolish to create divisions amoung the body of Christ based on such beliefs, we all disagree diffrent aspects of the nature of God,

If the Holy Spirit leads us to the truth and opens the Bible up to us, then doesn’t that mean that someone who teaches something contrary to what the Bible teaches does not have the Holy Spirit?

In addition to explaining that the nature of the Trinity is one God revealed in three separate and distinct persons, the Bible has a lot to say about divisions.

One of the more surprising things it has to say about divisions in the body of Christ is that such divisions are not necessarily a bad thing.

In fact, there are times when we’re commanded to "divide", both on an individual and corporate level.

For instance, Israel was commanded to "divide" from the pagan nations around them.

Jesus tells Christians to "divide" from the world.

Paul tells the church to "divide" from those who practice sin.

John tells us to "divide" from those who teach false doctrine and to have nothing to do with them.

In such a serious case as someone preaching a heretical doctrine that may send those who follow it to Hell, we are commanded by God to divide.

In fact, 2 John goes so far as to tell us that anyone who supports these false teachers, such as men like Jakes, is considered by God to be partakers with them in their evil deeds.

Is that how you want God to see you? As a partaker in the evil deeds of men He says He’s going to condemn?

T.D. Jakes uplifts the name of Jesus Christ and points all men toward him, if his form of believe is not yours then move on

It has nothing to do with whether or not his form of "believe" is like mine. It has to do with whether what he is preaching lines up with God’s word and, in this case, it clearly contradicts God’s word.

I wont argue with you or anyone else.

You’re not arguing with me. You’re arguing with the word of God.

Read your bible and talk to God, and when other people who do the same come to diffrent conclusions, pray for them maybe but keep your mouth to yourself

How can I keep my mouth shut while people are going to Hell because of heresies like Jakes’, when the Bible tells me I must speak up?

all this talk of heresy and evil is rediculous and it does no good for the body of Christ.

So then, was God confused when He told us to speak out against heresy and evil? Was He confused when He commanded us not to have anything to do with false teachers?

Some people are more concerned about the Body of Christ than proving each other wrong.

If some people were concerned about the body of Christ at all, then they’d be following God’s word and speaking out against men like Jakes, rather than defending them.

I am not going to try to teach you the bible, its not my job or anyone elses' thats why you have your own.

Actually, the Bible does say that God appointed men to teach the Bible.

This is a petty diffrence

It isn’t petty at all. It has huge ramifications.

First of all, it is wrong, simply by the fact that it contradicts God’s word.

But, beyond that, ask yourself this: If Jesus Christ is the same person as God the Father,
then God the Father must have died along with Christ. If the Father was dead, then Christ could not have been raised from the dead because the Bible repeatedly tells us that it was the Father who raised Him.

Thus, according to Paul, our faith is in vain.

People do not get saved with knowing the exact nature of the trinity as a prerequisit and people do not enter heavon with this as a prerequisit.

I agree. However, 2 John is very clear that someone who has a false doctrine of Christ does not have Christ. Thus, they are not saved.

Both beliefs are reasonable

Reasonable, yes. Biblical, no.

and none ban us from the presence of God or saving Grace.

And 2 John tells us that they do.

Bishop T.D Jakes' belief on the trinity is his belief, itis not the point of his ministry and frankly it doesnt maatter, becuase his salvation and no one elses is put in jeapordy by having either of these beliefs.

It may not be the point of his ministry, but it is a teaching of his ministry.
2 John tells us that anyone who doesn’t have a correct doctrine concerning the nature of God does have their salvation in jeopardy.

People who begin to bar and create division or derision in the body of Christ concerning such trivial matters are foolish and rash

Since the Bible commands us to divide in situations like this, you are, by extension, calling God’s word "foolish and rash".

I suppose I’d rather you call me foolish and rash for obeying God’s word, than to have God call me foolish and disobedient for not following His word.

Yes the standard of the word of God is the bedrock of our faith! But people having a diffrent belief on the trinity drives no one from God.

Again, this is in direct opposition to what 2 John says.

 

[MikeMcK]

double post

 

[aldar]

...

 

[aldar]

Just to try and clarify, not argue....

2 John 1:1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; 2 For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever. 3 Grace be with you, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. 4 I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father. 5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. 6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. 12 Having many things to write unto you, I would not [write] with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full. 13 The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen. .

This says nothing to state that correct understanding of the nature of the trinity determines ones salvation or that the level at which one understands the bible determines his salvation either. The clearly and only says those who do not have the teaching that Jesus Christ came and is God and follows Jesus' teachings do not belong to God... and this is obvious, I remember his teachings being fairly simple and you have to use a certain amount of common sense in all you do.

 

[MikeMcK]

This says nothing to state that correct understanding of the nature of the trinity determines ones salvation or that the level at which one understands the bible determines his salvation either.

I take it you missed v9, which says "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God."

The clearly and only says those who do not have the teaching that Jesus Christ came and is God and follows Jesus' teachings do not belong to God

It actually encompasses quite a bit more than just that.

 

[aldar]

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[aldar]

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[aldar]

Hi everyone,

T.D. Jakes is a good man, him being a Modalist is an exageration of the fact that we all have disagreements and even misunderstandings of the exact nature of the God that all serve and we all continue to grow in our understanding of the scriptures, such things ought not seperate us from each other and it is obvious that such mere disagreements on the scriptures do not have eternal implications. We all serve Jesus Christ and count his singular act of heroism and sacrifice as the single payment made for our salvation through our faith in him, this includes T.D. Jakes. If T.D. Jakes ministry does not suit you, that is all well and good also. Many reputable men and women would say they have T.D. Jakes' to thank for many things. He is a good man with a heart after God, this alone should bring us together.

 

[MikeMcK]

T.D. Jakes is a good man, him being a Modalist is an exageration of the fact that we all have disagreements and even misunderstandings of the exact nature of the God that all serve and we all continue to grow in our understanding of the scriptures, such things ought not seperate us from each other and it is obvious that such mere disagreements on the scriptures do not have eternal implications.

Jakes is a modalist. Period. It is not a mistake. It is not a misunderstanding.

Many people have tried to correct him on this and, each time, he has rejected the authority of scripture and chosen to defend his Sabellianism.

We all serve Jesus Christ and count his singular act of heroism and sacrifice as the single payment made for our salvation through our faith in him, this includes T.D. Jakes. If T.D. Jakes ministry does not suit you, that is all well and good also.

So then, are there any heresies that you don't support?

I mean, do you believe that there is ever a good time to follow the Biblical command to speak out against heresy and defend sound doctrine?

Many reputable men and women would say they have T.D. Jakes' to thank for many things.

Swell. The problem is that we don't determine truth by whether or not "reputable men and women" say things.

You don't seem to want to be consistent on this issue.

If you were, then you would acknowledge that many "reputable men" have spoken out against Jakes' heresy and tried to correct him.

He is a good man with a heart after God, this alone should bring us together.

If he's a good man with a heart after God, then why does God say that all false teachers will be cast into the Lake of Fire?

 

[aldar]

hehe... you just don't give up do you?

 

[MikeMcK]

hehe... you just don't give up do you?

I don't back down when the word of God is attacked.

 

[aldar]

well then continue...you haven't changed anything yet and my message is still out there and I bet more people are listening to my contemporary message than yours because myne appeals to the hearts of reasonable caring people, yours only appeals to the mind, the minds of a very selective, rare group of people. You are losing friend, I am sorry.

 

[MikeMcK]

well then continue...you haven't changed anything yet and my message is still out there and I bet more people are listening to my contemporary message than yours because myne appeals to the hearts of reasonable caring people, yours only appeals to the mind, the minds of a very selective, rare group of people. You are losing friend, I am sorry.

Here's the problem. What you're doing is going against God's word on a number of levels.

You say that there's nothing wrong with modalism. The Bible says that there is.

You say that we shouldn't examine Jakes' teachings in light of scripture. The Bible says we should.

You say that you're appealing to the hearts of reasonable, caring people, and the Bible says that all you're doing is scratching their itching ears.

You say that, by adhering to God's word and standing up for sound doctrine, that I'm "losing", but may I remind you what Psalm 1 says:

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

So, while you may try to paint me as a loser and yourself as the victor, the Bible tells a very different story.
Once again, you are at odds with God's word.

 

[aldar]

...the minds of a few, rare, people... Bye.