The Seventh Day Adventist view on the Nicene Creed

[Sophia7]

Yes I agree with the trinitarian doctrine established by the Nicene Creed of 325.

But the additional items (Virgin Mary and the holy Universal and apostolic church) that were put in in 381 in the Council of Constantinople, I'm not sure if I can go along with (they need to be clearly defined).

But anyway if the trinity is the issue, I think we are ok. But if this is only the beginning to get rid of the unorthodox groups whose doctrines do not fit in the ecumenical agenda, then I don't think we can be careful enough with we say.

Thanks for your support and concern, Sophia. I appreciate it. The Lord is my strength and my shield...

Well, the way the Nicene Creed was used previously at CF, members did not have to affirm the exact wording of it. There are some Christian groups that are opposed to the use of creeds as a test of fellowship (as Adventism was in its early years) even though they agree with the teachings included in the Nicene Creed. They are still allowed to call themselves Nicene Christians for CF purposes, especially if they believe in the Trinity.

 

[honorthesabbath]

I'm just pointing out some historic fact and my concerns.

I'm not really worried about it. If the Lord determines our time has ended here in CF, I'm sure He will give us/me something else to do.

Wow--DL-this is exactly what I said over in the trad area and didn't even know that you had said this. As you know-there are a few new SDA forums recently popped up as a result of the furor in this forum. SO maybe God IS pulling the plug for us here. Either way--I think we'll live don't you?

How does that old rock and roll song go?.....

"I got along without you before I met you goin to get a long without you now,,ahh haa,, a humm gonna get along without you now!

 

[DrStupid_Ben]

I would have thought that the way to determine whether or not the Seventh-day Adventist Church agrees with the Nicene Creed would be to consult the Church fundamental beliefs and compare them to the Nicene Creed. Then you will find your answer. That would be a far better way than to go on the word of which ever Adventists happened to float this way on the world-wide-web, including myself.

There of course will be some that don't agree with the Nicene Creed, however I believe that most Adventists would not have a problem with the theology of the Creed. This would be similar to Episcopalians for instance: some will agree and some (eg Spong) won't agree. I doubt the Episcopalians would be judged because of the loud voices of Bishop Spong and others.

 

[Sophia7]

I would have thought that the way to determine whether or not the Seventh-day Adventist Church agrees with the Nicene Creed would be to consult the Church fundamental beliefs and compare them to the Nicene Creed. Then you will find your answer. That would be a far better way than to go on the word of which ever Adventists happened to float this way on the world-wide-web, including myself.

There of course will be some that don't agree with the Nicene Creed, however I believe that most Adventists would not have a problem with the theology of the Creed. This would be similar to Episcopalians for instance: some will agree and some (eg Spong) won't agree. I doubt the Episcopalians would be judged because of the loud voices of Bishop Spong and others.

Yes, I agree.

 

[NightEternal]

Seems to me I predicted this would be an issue about 4 months ago:

http://christianforums.com/t6366658-is-lee-going-to-rid-the-sdas-from-forums.html

Is Lee going to rid the SDA's from christianforums.com?


http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=40279283&postcount=126

i hope the site can attract more judeo-christian believers. + remove CULTS fm this site! GBU all.

http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=40289300&postcount=198

Lee, are Cultists allowed to be mods and have safe havens?

With this new site ownership pushing an aggressive 'Christian only' agenda, I have some understandable concerns about the future of Adventists here at christianforums.com. Tall and Sophia have time and again warned us about certain individuals on staff who are agitating to have SDA's booted from the site and this subforum shut down. As you can see from the above mod quotes, they are now attempting to pressure Lee to do precisely that.

To further complicate things: Tall and Sophia, who have been at the frontlines of interceeding on our behalf, have now officially severed ties with the denomination. This will surely fuel the fire for these hostile individuals who will look at this as verification and substantiation of thier opinion that we are indeed a non-Christian cult.

The future might not be as friendly for us here as we first thought.

As an Evangelical SDA who has battled tirelessly for the better part of 20 years of my life trying drag this organization into mainstream orthodoxy, who has fought bitterly against the cultic elements and ideas that surely permeate this church, this is a hurtful and staggering blow to me.

 

[RND]

I would have thought that the way to determine whether or not the Seventh-day Adventist Church agrees with the Nicene Creed would be to consult the Church fundamental beliefs and compare them to the Nicene Creed. Then you will find your answer. That would be a far better way than to go on the word of which ever Adventists happened to float this way on the world-wide-web, including myself.

There of course will be some that don't agree with the Nicene Creed, however I believe that most Adventists would not have a problem with the theology of the Creed. This would be similar to Episcopalians for instance: some will agree and some (eg Spong) won't agree. I doubt the Episcopalians would be judged because of the loud voices of Bishop Spong and others.

Having read all the post here I have to say Dr that I believe I'm in agreement with your thoughts here. One thing that I think that gets completely overlooked and passed-over when discussing the "Nicene Creed" is simply this: The "Nicene Creed" does not define a Christian, the Holy Bible does. I know for some that is a radical position to take but I (along with countless others I'm sure), believed in the Godhead long before I ever heard of the "Nicene Creed."

People that get all atwitter over the point of whether or not one accepts the "Nicene Creed" are really missing the concept of the plan of salvation. when the books are opened in Heaven the question won't be, "Did you believe in the Nicene Creed?" the question will be, "What did you do with My Son."

 

[Sophia7]

There are many Christians here at CF who are not fond of the use of man-made creeds as standards of "orthodoxy," but the important thing at CF has always been agreement with the beliefs expressed in the Nicene Creed rather than affirmation of its exact words or acceptance of the authority of church councils or anything like that. Adventism, according to its official beliefs, has always been considered in compliance with the ideas of the NC, at least by most of the staff members who had the power to make such a judgment. I don't think you have any reason to worry about losing your forum now.

 

[NightEternal]

Thanks Sophia.

What you say is true, I have been following the mod discussions on this issue:

http://christianforums.com/t6790422&nw_show=comments

They have been going on for thousands of posts by now. This particular section was split off from another discussion that had gone on for another 1000 posts. I have read every single one so far.

There is clear evidence that there are still some mods who categorize us in the same realm as JW's and Mormons judging from some of their intolerant comments in the discussion, no matter what creed we profess to align with.

But, yes, those administrators who actually matter and have the authourity to do something do not think that way.

We are safe. For now.

 

[EGW]

The creed:

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father...
of one Being with the Father.

__________________________________

Two questions.
1. Someone explain how Jesus is both "eternally begotten" and "one Being with the Father" at the same time - by using the scriptures as your authority.

2. How is Jesus the Son of God?
A) a son by creation, as were the angels
B) a son by adoption, as is the forgiven sinner
C) a son by role-playing only (Jesus is not a real son; He could have taken the role of any person of a "three-person Godhead")
D) a son by a mystical, on-going process that never actually had a beginning and that never will have an end
E) a Son begotten (or birthed) before Creation in the express image of the Father's person, and in all the brightness of his majesty and glory, one equal with God in authority, dignity, and divine perfection

 

[JonMiller]

There are options you aren't including.

JM

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

The creed:

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father...
of one Being with the Father.

__________________________________

Two questions.
1. Someone explain how Jesus is both "eternally begotten" and "one Being with the Father" at the same time - by using the scriptures as your authority.

Like many church creeds it was written by a consensus and incorporates language of the time for dealing with issues of the time. The issue at that time was Arianism which put forth the idea that God existed and at some time God begat the Son. By saying eternally begotten they sought to say that The Son has always been the Son and He is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit. That is one in substance. not unity or love that the Adventist interpretation often says is the meaning of one. For scriptures on that you can simply go to John chapter 1

 

[EGW]

There are options you aren't including.

JM

Care to fill us in?

 

[EGW]

...they sought to say that The Son has always been the Son ...

Which answer would this be to my 2nd question posted earlier?

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Look back at the quote of yours you will see which question my reply was to.

 

[EGW]

Look back at the quote of yours you will see which question my reply was to.

I did notice that you didn't attempt to answer #2. Hence, the last question. You're not obligated, of course.