A re-examination of nothing

[davedjy]

ng

I don't believe there are inconsistencies. You do. You love it, too, so you can fabricate away all you want and have your cake and eat it too.

"Have my cake and eat it too"? Ironic. This isn't about me, so please just debate the issue at hand. You tried to somehow compare the ways masturbation and homosexuality are consistently the same thing...not happening, and it didn't work! nobody would believe that.
Masturbator and homosexual, two of the ways, PROVE just ONE EXTREME inconsistency. What I "love" is irrelevant to the discussion, but you do not know what I love. I don't seek justification for the way I know God made me. If you are going to accuse me of fabricating something, you really should bring proof, btw, which you have not demonstrated in the least here or ever.

Well, God has a different idea about that. He says homosexuals will not ever enter the Kingdom. I buy it. I trust God and His merry band of translators way over homosexuals who want to strip His word down so that it can mean anything they wish. Foolish.

Then you trust a translation built on inconsistencies, and a breaking of Biblical Exegesis. You trust a translation based upon a broken rule, that is unethical. Foolish? how is it not to trust a translation that has been inconsistently translated over the years to mean many different things from your "trustworthy" Bible that translates everything so "correctly"? That been proven to be far from the truth. Male pimp, male prostitute, masturbator, and those are only 3 of the ways...
I trust the Scholars I brought here, that don't have anti-gay biases.

God would not break the rules of translational Scholarship to say a word that did not exist in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts at the time. At least the Scholars I brought called the anti-gay biased ones on their garbage...there is no viable translation of the word "homosexual" in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts.

It would be foolish to confuse what "God says" with fallible translators. Believing a translation based upon broken rules IS definitely BEYOND fabricating what God said in His Word!

 

[Floatingaxe]

God never made anyone homosexual. so there's the first fallacy put forth. It is arguing for the sake of argument only, as God has not done any such thing. He made us male and female and our genitals fit together for a reason. For procreation and for mutual pleasure--male with female only. God saw that man needed a helper so He created a woman, not another male.

It is the perverse mind that cannot see the perfetion of God's Creation, and so it has to muddy it up some.

As long as Satan has this planet as his territory, there will be these unholy aberrations. He revels in it. When Jesus comes and separates the sheep from the goats we will see the truth. God makes us normally to desire the opposite sex--He has ordained it. Sin is what clouds the issue.

Round and round we go. God is watching and listening to these arguments and accounting the blasphemy of homosexual defense to their respective acounts.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Prove from Scripture that masturbation bes a sin. Some ppls use to keep themselves from fornication and to get rid of their lust when it bes annoying so that they will NOT sin. So prove from Scripture it bes a sin to touch. Doesn't matter what orientation, we can call it heterosexual if that helps.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Prove from Scripture that masturbation bes a sin. Some ppls use to keep themselves from fornication and to get rid of their lust when it bes annoying so that they will NOT sin. So prove from Scripture it bes a sin to touch. Doesn't matter what orientation, we can call it heterosexual if that helps.

Knowing Jesus, we know that He is the one who provides the distraction we need to NOT fall into such temptation.

Jesus keeps us from fornication and lustful thoughts and fantasies! Not DIY sex!

If you haven't a husband or haven't a wife, you are to remain chaste and celibate--that includes with yourself! If you have a spouse, then that is your outlet. Period.

Otherwise, take a cold shower. And if you aren't born again, of course, there is no stopping you. Born again believers in Jesus Christ have a requirement on them to live holy.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Sexual activity is for pleasuring our mate.

For hetero AND homosexuals.

God never made anyone homosexual.

God created humans in his own image. Including homosexuals

It is the perverse mind that cannot see the perfetion of God's Creation, and so it has to muddy it up some.

If God's creation is perfect, that includes homosexuals.

God makes us normally to desire the opposite sex--He has ordained it.

Normally, but not always. Just like left handers and red heads.

If you haven't a husband or haven't a wife, you are to remain chaste and celibate--that includes with yourself! If you have a spouse, then that is your outlet. Period.

Fair enough. Including homosexual spouses.

God wouldn't deny people an outlet would he?

 

[Floatingaxe]

For hetero AND homosexuals.

No, only heterosexuals, the norm, the way we were all created.

God created humans in his own image. Including homosexuals

God created us in His image and in His design--heterosexuals, created to unite in marriage bond with the opposite gender...ONLY.

If God's creation is perfect, that includes homosexuals.

His original creation is perfect, but Satan messed it up and introduced perversion into it. Homosexuality is his doing not God's.

Normally, but not always. Just like left handers and red heads.

Normally, means He created men and women to desire each other without deviation. Abnormal desire comes from sin--deviation.

Fair enough. Including homosexual spouses.

God wouldn't deny people an outlet would he?

No, not including homosexual "spouses". That is against God. He doesn't deny an outlet to His children who love Him and obey Him. But He does deny people to fornicate and commit lewd and deviant acts with one another. The result of such behaviour is a debased mind. A mind that doesn't know right from wrong...hence the debate section here in CF just for debating debased homosexual thinkers.

 

[Ohioprof]

What a lame argument! Sorry, but it's funny! A male thought that one up, surely! (Maybe his name was Shirley! )

I agree with this other poster, and I am a woman. The arguments by anonymous are excellent, and they are worth responding to seriously, not with a personal attack or put-down.

 

[Ohioprof]

Knowing Jesus, we know that He is the one who provides the distraction we need to NOT fall into such temptation.

Jesus keeps us from fornication and lustful thoughts and fantasies! Not DIY sex!

If you haven't a husband or haven't a wife, you are to remain chaste and celibate--that includes with yourself! If you have a spouse, then that is your outlet. Period.

Otherwise, take a cold shower. And if you aren't born again, of course, there is no stopping you. Born again believers in Jesus Christ have a requirement on them to live holy.

So you believe masturbation is a sin? (Just a quick question, not intended to start a long, off-topic discussion.)

 

[Phinehas2]

But Ohioprof, you havent answered the OP. What Biblical evidence have you got for anything you have said?
All you are doing is disputing everything.

 

[Ohioprof]

But Ohioprof, you havent answered the OP. What Biblical evidence have you got for anything you have said?
All you are doing is disputing everything.

I most certainly have presented evidence from the Bible in response to your argument in the OP. You point out that there are zero verses in the Bible that "countenance" same-sex unions. I have responded that there are zero verses in the Bible that condemn same-sex marriages, and zero verses that condemn gay people. The question is how you interpret the silence of the Bible on same-sex marriage and on gay people.

For you and others to assume that silence equals condemnation is to read your beliefs into the silence of the Bible about same-sex marriage and about gay people. You cannot assume that silence equals condemnation, because it does not.

Since the Bible is entirely silent about same-sex marriage and about gay people, never condemning either, how might we understand God's will in this area? I think we must look to the teachings of Jesus himself. And his essential teachings are these: that we shall love God and love our neighbor.

Therefore, the proper way for Christians to treat gay people is to love gay people, not point fingers at gay people or make pronouncements about our condemnation, which neither Jesus nor the Bible ever called for.

I have given you this explanation a number of times now, and you refuse to accept it. Apparently you believe that the Bible never mentioning same-sex marriage must mean that God condemns it, since that is what you apparently believe, and you imagine God to harbor all the beliefs and prejudices and ideas about the world that you do. You appear to create your idea of God in your own image.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Ohioprof,

I most certainly have presented evidence from the Bible in response to your argument in the OP. You point out that there are zero verses in the Bible that "countenance" same-sex unions. I have responded that there are zero verses in the Bible that condemn same-sex marriages, and zero verses that condemn gay people.

But there aren’t zero verse that condemn same-sex, there are several and others which countenance only man/woman. All you have done once again is reject the Biblical evidence put before you. You are quite entitled to dispute the Biblical evidence presented butwe are looking in this thread for evidence to support your view in the face of what we see as simply denial.

So The question is how you interpret the silence of the Bible on same-sex marriage and on gay people.

No that’s absence of evidence. You have used your rejection of the Biblical evidence presented to assume there is silence. You are being asked for your evidence to support what you are saying other than rejection of Biblical evidence

For you and others to assume that silence equals condemnation

We don’t assume, we have presented the Biblical condemnation of same-sex sex. You have assumed we think there is biblical silence, there isn’t. Why have you assumed we have assumed something we have categorically told you we don’t. We will tell you what we believe and you may tell us what you believe but you may not tell us what we do not believe, that’s misrepresentation.
We do not believe the Bible is silent, we believe it condemns same-sex sex clearly and anyone who doesn’t accept that is merely disbelieving and denying what the Bible says. Having such a position you may therefore present how you think silence can justify same-sex sex. But remember I will ask you how it can justify any more than say silence on such as paedophilia.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Knowing Jesus, we know that He is the one who provides the distraction we need to NOT fall into such temptation.

Jesus keeps us from fornication and lustful thoughts and fantasies! Not DIY sex!

If you haven't a husband or haven't a wife, you are to remain chaste and celibate--that includes with yourself! If you have a spouse, then that is your outlet. Period.

Otherwise, take a cold shower. And if you aren't born again, of course, there is no stopping you. Born again believers in Jesus Christ have a requirement on them to live holy.

You have not yet proven from SCRIPTURE that masturbation bes a sin.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

God created us in His image and in His design--heterosexuals, created to unite in marriage bond with the opposite gender...ONLY.

His original creation is perfect, but Satan messed it up and introduced perversion into it. Homosexuality is his doing not God's.

So now you bes arguing that Satan bes more powerful than God, that Satan has the ability to alter Creation itself from its original design AND that God bes powerless to stop Him? Because surely you cannot be arguing that God, having the power to prevent Satan's work, would choose not to do so and abdicate responsibility for His Creation into the hands of His supposedly avowed enemy ... right?

 

[davedjy]

God never made anyone homosexual. so there's the first fallacy put forth. It is arguing for the sake of argument only, as God has not done any such thing. He made us male and female and our genitals fit together for a reason. For procreation and for mutual pleasure--male with female only. God saw that man needed a helper so He created a woman, not another male.

It is the perverse mind that cannot see the perfetion of God's Creation, and so it has to muddy it up some.

As long as Satan has this planet as his territory, there will be these unholy aberrations. He revels in it. When Jesus comes and separates the sheep from the goats we will see the truth. God makes us normally to desire the opposite sex--He has ordained it. Sin is what clouds the issue.

Round and round we go. God is watching and listening to these arguments and accounting the blasphemy of homosexual defense to their respective acounts.

More commentary and not one proper post rebuttal....

There's no proof in the Bible that God wishes gays and lesbians to be with the opposite sex.
You also can't bring one Scripture here to prove that satan is the author of homosexuality, or where the Bible says that specifically.
Regardless of "bodies fitting together", mentally for a gay or lesbian to be with the opposite sex, IT IS NOT FITTING.

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear Ohioprof,
But there aren’t zero verse that condemn same-sex, there are several and others which countenance only man/woman. All you have done once again is reject the Biblical evidence put before you. You are quite entitled to dispute the Biblical evidence presented butwe are looking in this thread for evidence to support your view in the face of what we see as simply denial.
No that’s absence of evidence. You have used your rejection of the Biblical evidence presented to assume there is silence. You are being asked for your evidence to support what you are saying other than rejection of Biblical evidence

We don’t assume, we have presented the Biblical condemnation of same-sex sex. You have assumed we think there is biblical silence, there isn’t. Why have you assumed we have assumed something we have categorically told you we don’t. We will tell you what we believe and you may tell us what you believe but you may not tell us what we do not believe, that’s misrepresentation.
We do not believe the Bible is silent, we believe it condemns same-sex sex clearly and anyone who doesn’t accept that is merely disbelieving and denying what the Bible says. Having such a position you may therefore present how you think silence can justify same-sex sex. But remember I will ask you how it can justify any more than say silence on such as paedophilia.

There are zero verses in the Bible that condemn same-sex marriage. And what we are talking about here is marriage....an intimate, committed relationship between two spouses.

The other verses you repeatedly cite, and there are not many of them, appear to condemn lust and sexuality outside marriage.

 

[savedandhappy1]

You have not yet proven from SCRIPTURE that masturbation bes a sin.

1 Cor 7:1-9
1 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me:
It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.
3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband.
4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
6 But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment.
7 For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.
8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am;
9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Here we go, scriptures that prove God planned a man and woman should marry, because as we see in verse 2, each man should have their own wife and each woman should have her own husband.

Next we see, in verse 9, how if you can't control yourself you are to marry, not pleasure yourself.

 

[Ohioprof]

1 Cor 7:1-9
1 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me:
It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.
3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband.
4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
6 But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment.
7 For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.
8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am;
9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Here we go, scriptures that prove God planned a man and woman should marry, because as we see in verse 2, each man should have their own wife and each woman should have her own husband.

Next we see, in verse 9, how if you can't control yourself you are to marry, not pleasure yourself.

Your interpretation of verse 2 contradicts verse 8. You seem to be interpreting verse 2 as saying that all men and women should marry, and that contradicts verse 8. Verse 9 does not clearly say that masturbation is bad. It just says that marrying is better than burning with passion. I think that can apply to gay people marrying our spouses as well as heterosexuals marrying their spouses.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Moraih_Conquering_Wind,

So now you bes arguing that Satan bes more powerful than God, that Satan has the ability to alter Creation itself from its original design AND that God bes powerless to stop Him? Because surely you cannot be arguing that God, having the power to prevent Satan's work, would choose not to do so and abdicate responsibility for His Creation into the hands of His supposedly avowed enemy ... right?

What is meant is that God created woman for man to be in union, Satan tempted humans to disobey and now we know right from wrong, the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Satan doesnt have the power to alter creation, thats why the human species cant reproduce without male and female, but Satan can lead people to use God's creation in the wrong way.
But God is stronger thats why through the power of Jesus Christ people can follow God's created purposes.

 

[davedjy]

Next we see, in verse 9, how if you can't control yourself you are to marry, not pleasure yourself.

That is what you take out of it, but there isn't any proof that masturbation defines sexual immorality. There are plenty of Christians that don't believe masturbation is a sin, James Dobson (who I highly disagree with on homosexuality), is one of them.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Ohioprof,

There are zero verses in the Bible that condemn same-sex marriage.

On the contrary there are about a dozen exclude it and condemn it as I have shown.
What I am looking for is some evidence from you to support your ideas, at present all you have is an assumption based on the rejection of the Biblical evidence I have put before you.