Do you think that homosexuality is a choice?

[savedandhappy1]

They sure do, because you or whatever you quoted said that homosexuality was an "abnormality unique to man" (your next quote below). Man being created in the image of God, is an irrelevant point when it comes to sexuality, as it doesn't really prove anything, nor do souls where sexuality is concerned.




Erroneous/false information, SoAmazinglyBlessed just brought further proof it isn't "unique to man".

So you are saying we have no more control over ourselves than an animal does? Which would then mean that all the humans that have killed their young should not be arrested or convicted as if it is a crime, because we are just animals and can't help ourselves?

Interesting concept. I guess being made in God image, and having the knowledge of right and wrong placed in us by our Creator isn't really true, then?

Not seeing how having a soul or that knowledge of right and wrong, would makes us different from an animal........well I guess humans do have a way of seeing or not seeing what they want to. I wonder if animals are able to do the same?

Hmmmmmm, I think I will look into that.

 

[UnitedInChrist]

Yes, I think it's soooo cool to be stared down in a restaurant while trying to eat simply for being with someone I'm attracted to. Or have friends I've known for years suddenly change when they find out who I'm attracted to. Or even better, how about having your own grandparents hate you behind your back because of something as silly as that? Yeah, I know I definitely just wanted to be cool when I "decided" to be gay. Oh wait that's right, none of those things have any sort of "pay off" what-so-ever, yet I'm doing better accepting who I am then denying it completely.

And I hardly doubt in my family of Southern Baptists going back very far that there are any demonic generational ties or something, sorry. And abused as a child, or traumatic experiences? Also very doubtful. Very healthy upbringing, so I'm afraid that's out.

Anyway, I think it's quite clear that I think homosexuality is not a choice.

Slight correction..."axe" would be correct in your situation...TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE WOULD BE THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST UPBRINGING. Got that first hand myself! Glad you lived through it!

 

[David Brider]

It could be either.

Or indeed neither.

We have CriticalMassKitten's testimony that it's not choice, though, so we can discount that.

I'm intrigued by your "spiritual stronghold" idea. How does it work? How can you tell if it's that and not something else? For example, if sexual orientation is not simply something that people are born with already in place?

That is not God's view. People who are involved in sexual sin and refuse to repent of it are not serving God, but rather their flesh.

Woah, hang on, you're getting a bit ahead of yourself there. We're not talking about people involved in sexual sin - just people who are homosexual.

David.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Or indeed neither.

We have CriticalMassKitten's testimony that it's not choice, though, so we can discount that.

I'm intrigued by your "spiritual stronghold" idea. How does it work? How can you tell if it's that and not something else? For example, if sexual orientation is not simply something that people are born with already in place?

Actually, choice or not, it is still a spiritual stronghold. Strongholds are based on a lie and/or a fear. It is a demonic attachment, an argument against God, a way of thinking and behaviour that needs routing spiritually in order to be free of it.

Woah, hang on, you're getting a bit ahead of yourself there. We're not talking about people involved in sexual sin - just people who are homosexual.

David.

I am not ahead of myself. You are behind. Homosexual lifestyles are sexual sin according to almighty God. Your argument is with Him.

 

[seekingpurity047]

Is it a choice? Well, is it a choice to be a sinner? Not really, we're born that way. However, we do choose the sins that we commit, furthermore, we voluntarily participate in sinful actions, as homosexuality is also a sinful action. Ergo, I don't think it really matters if it's a "choice" or not. I mean, if people are born homosexuals, then they are born homosexuals just as another sinner is born prone to, say, be a murderer. Etc. Everyone is capable of sinning extremely terrible things, and it is only the grace of God that keeps us from going as far as we can.

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Randy

 

[David Brider]

Actually, choice or not, it is still a spiritual stronghold. Strongholds are based on a lie and/or a fear. It is a demonic attachment, an argument against God, a way of thinking and behaviour that needs routing spiritually in order to be free of it.

Okay, but how can you tell if, in this case, it's a stronghold or not?

And what do you mean when you say that being homosexual is "a way of thinking and behaviour"?

I am not ahead of myself. You are behind. Homosexual lifestyles are sexual sin according to almighty God. Your argument is with Him.

Being homosexual has nothing to do with a lifestyle.

And no, I've no argument with God.

David.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Okay, but how can you tell if, in this case, it's a stronghold or not?

And what do you mean when you say that being homosexual is "a way of thinking and behaviour"?



Being homosexual has nothing to do with a lifestyle.

And no, I've no argument with God.

David.

Because of last two sentences, the first question is answered.

 

[David Brider]

Because of last two sentences, the first question is answered.

Well, that's good.

So...what's the answer?

David.

 

[Floatingaxe]

So you are saying we have no more control over ourselves than an animal does? Which would then mean that all the humans that have killed their young should not be arrested or convicted as if it is a crime, because we are just animals and can't help ourselves?

Interesting concept. I guess being made in God image, and having the knowledge of right and wrong placed in us by our Creator isn't really true, then?

Not seeing how having a soul or that knowledge of right and wrong, would makes us different from an animal........well I guess humans do have a way of seeing or not seeing what they want to. I wonder if animals are able to do the same?

Hmmmmmm, I think I will look into that.

Yo! Sistah!

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Well, that's good.

So...what's the answer?

David.

It's circular.

 

[Floatingaxe]

It's circular.

Typical. Everything's circular to you.

It isn't. It is straightforward. Deny God's sovereignty, His law and His authority to declare what sin is, (in this case, homosexuality) indulge in that sin, embracing the darkness, and BAM! You've got yourself a stronghold.

 

[Lupinus]

It isn't. It is straightforward. Deny God's sovereignty, His law and His authority to declare what sin is, (in this case, homosexuality) indulge in that sin, embracing the darkness, and BAM! You've got yourself a stronghold.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Deny God's sovereignty, His law and His authority to declare what sin is, (in this case, homosexuality) indulge in that sin, embracing the darkness, and BAM! You've got yourself a stronghold.

The Greek word used in Romans 1 for passion is pathos. I found some of the definitions to show just what kind of strongholds are being talked about. I have highlighted them in red for anyone who is interested.

Passions (3806) (pathosfrom páscho = suffer) (3 uses: Romans; Colossians; 1 Thessalonians) primarily denotes whatever one suffers or experiences in any way; hence, an affection of the mind, a passionate desire. Pathos was used by the Greeks to describe either good or bad desires but in the NT pathos always refers to bad desires, especially of a sexual nature. Pathos means excited emotion, uncontrollable desire, compelling feelings, overpowering urges.


Pathos denotes not so much the violence of the feeling as its ungovernable nature. Note the derivation from the verb pascho to suffer which expresses the lustful feeling the individual suffers.
A passion is a drive or force that does not rest until satisfied. These are internal desires (emanating from our fallen sin nature) cause the victim to suffer and that have to be satisfied or they drive you crazy. A passion describes intense emotion compelling action; intense, driving, or overmastering feeling or conviction; ardent affection; sexual desire or an emotion that is deeply stirring or ungovernable. The word "desires" (when used as noun as in the present context) means to have a longing for and stresses the strength of feeling and often implies strong intention or aim; conscious impulse toward something that promises enjoyment or satisfaction in its attainment.

http://www.preceptaustin.org/romans_126-27.htm

 

[OllieFranz]

The Greek word used in Romans 1 for passion is pathos. I found some of the definitions to show just what kind of strongholds are being talked about. I have highlighted them in red for anyone who is interested.

Passions (3806) (pathosfrom páscho = suffer) (3 uses: Romans; Colossians; 1 Thessalonians) primarily denotes whatever one suffers or experiences in any way; hence, an affection of the mind, a passionate desire. Pathos was used by the Greeks to describe either good or bad desires but in the NT pathos always refers to bad desires, especially of a sexual nature. Pathos means excited emotion, uncontrollable desire, compelling feelings, overpowering urges.


Pathos denotes not so much the violence of the feeling as its ungovernable nature. Note the derivation from the verb pascho to suffer which expresses the lustful feeling the individual suffers.
A passion is a drive or force that does not rest until satisfied. These are internal desires (emanating from our fallen sin nature) cause the victim to suffer and that have to be satisfied or they drive you crazy. A passion describes intense emotion compelling action; intense, driving, or overmastering feeling or conviction; ardent affection; sexual desire or an emotion that is deeply stirring or ungovernable. The word "desires" (when used as noun as in the present context) means to have a longing for and stresses the strength of feeling and often implies strong intention or aim; conscious impulse toward something that promises enjoyment or satisfaction in its attainment.

http://www.preceptaustin.org/romans_126-27.htm

Precisely! what Romans 1:26-27 condemns is Eros unbounded. The five components of Eros unbounded are epithymia, pathos, ekkaio, orexis, and plane, and Paul makes a point of mentioning all five components in this passage:

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts (epithymia) of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections (pathos): for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned (ekkaio) in their lust (orexis) one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error (plane) which was meet.
Romans 1:24-27, AV

Paul emphasized the lusts and the burning to show the sin is the error of giving in to the desires. He also indicates that in the sin is also some of its punishment. Any honest addict will tell you that there comes a point that the thing to which they are addicted no longer brings pleasure, but only an easing of torment. Torment caused by the addiction itself. There would have been no question in the minds of the Roman Christians that this addicted, uncontrolled Passion was the heart of the sin.

 

[CriticalMassKitten]

That is not God's view. People who are involved in sexual sin and refuse to repent of it are not serving God, but rather their flesh.

But being gay doesn't mean having sex all the time. It's perfectly possible for a gay or lesbian couple to never have sex. Sexual sin isn't really just being attracted to the same sex, I would say it's the act of actually having sex with them. So really, being homosexual in general would not be a sin by your quote right there.

 

[Ohioprof]

Typical. Everything's circular to you.

It isn't. It is straightforward. Deny God's sovereignty, His law and His authority to declare what sin is, (in this case, homosexuality) indulge in that sin, embracing the darkness, and BAM! You've got yourself a stronghold.

God never declared "homosexuality" a "sin." Some people try to do that, not God.

 

[Ohioprof]

It could be either.





That is not God's view. People who are involved in sexual sin and refuse to repent of it are not serving God, but rather their flesh.

You continue to state your view as though it's God's view.

 

[Ohioprof]

But being gay doesn't mean having sex all the time. It's perfectly possible for a gay or lesbian couple to never have sex. Sexual sin isn't really just being attracted to the same sex, I would say it's the act of actually having sex with them. So really, being homosexual in general would not be a sin by your quote right there.

In my case, being gay doesn't mean having sex at all. But even if it did, it wouldn't be a sin to have an intimate relationship with a spouse.

 

[BreadAlone]

In my case, being gay doesn't mean having sex at all. But even if it did, it wouldn't be a sin to have an intimate relationship with a spouse.

If you're not having sex, then you're not committing homosexual acts..

 

[Ohioprof]

Did we forget your post http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=42860300&postcount=290


Baptism, salvation, authority of the church, priests/pastors allowed to marry, etc. There are some things very clear cut, some things not, some things misinterpreted. I recall this being a debate about homosexuality though, not on why there are different denominations.


Correct. The bible doesn't mention homosexuality among animals because it is irrelevant. They don't have a soul breathed into them nor are they created in Gods image.

I think animals have a soul, and I think they are created in God's image, no less than humans are. But that is off topic.