What week?

[HisdaughterJen]

I should point out again that the 70 weeks are decreed for Israel and Jerusalem to complete those things.

Dan 9:24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.

Remember, Jerusalem was destroyed and Israel scattered for nearly 2000 years. There has been no way for them as a nation to come together and complete the final week. They are being gathered now in preparation for the events of the final week.

The only way Israel and Jerusalem can do all of that is by believing in Christ. They come to know Him during those final seven years and at His return. Christ puts in them a "spirit of supplication" and they weep for Him as for an only son:

Zec 12:10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

and this:

Zec 13:1 “On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity.
Zec 13:2 “On that day, I will banish the names of the idols from the land, and they will be remembered no more,” declares the Lord Almighty. “I will remove both the prophets and the spirit of impurity from the land.
Zec 13:3 And if anyone still prophesies, his father and mother, to whom he was born, will say to him, ‘You must die, because you have told lies in the Lord's name.’ When he prophesies, his own parents will stab him.
Zec 13:4 “On that day every prophet will be ashamed of his prophetic vision. He will not put on a prophet's garment of hair in order to deceive.

and this:

Zec 14:11 It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.

 

[jeffweeder]

what "most holy" did Jesus' sacrifice anoint...the Mercy Seat, maybe, with His blood?

I would say the most holy place you could be, is right there where Jesus is sitting now. We are seated their now.
i just get the impression that Jesus death and ressurection was enough for me, gave me everything i will ever need and was the answer to daniels supplications.

Yes, I see that point. And yes, on the outside, HE did do all of that and Christians (gentiles) KNOW all of that and accept it. Right now, all of that is kept in heaven for us. We have all of that waiting for us.



yes indeed



But Israel rejected ALL of that. The 70 weeks are for Israel and Jerusalem according to Daniel 9:24. Israel is going to be given a chance to choose during that final week

Indeed they were given the chance, and you know what happened, they had him put to death,
The times of the Gentiles to be grafted into vine had come as they cut off their Messiah....and desolations are decreed.

It specifically states that messiah will be cut off in the midst of the week right?
What other week can it be speaking of if he appears after the 69th?
What week would you say that Jesus done his work?

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Indeed they were given the chance, and you know what happened, they had him put to death,
The times of the Gentiles to be grafted into vine had come as they cut off their Messiah....and desolations are decreed.

It specifically states that messiah will be cut off in the midst of the week right?
What other week can it be speaking of if he appears after the 69th?
What week would you say that Jesus done his work?

No, it doesn't say that the Messiah is cut off in the midst of the week.

Check it out:

Dan 9:24 “Seventy ‘sevens’are decreed for your people and your holy city to finishtransgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.
Dan 9:25 “Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decreeto restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.
Dan 9:26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing.The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
Dan 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’In the middle of the ‘seven’he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.



Compare to:

Dan 8:10 It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them.
Dan 8:11 It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and the place of his sanctuary was brought low.
Dan 8:12 Because of rebellion, the host of the saints and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
Dan 8:13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?”
Dan 8:14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”


It says that after the 7 & 62 = 69 weeks, the Anointed One will come and be cut off. It is the daily sacrifice that is ended in the middle of the final week.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

What other week can it be speaking of if he appears after the 69th?
What week would you say that Jesus done his work?

Jesus came and lived and died, and lived, AFTER the 69th week but before the 70th week which is yet to come.

Again, it is Israel and Jerusalem that must complete the tasks by believing in Christ.

Israel and Jerusalem will have completed the 70 weeks when Christ returns.

The only reason that the Anointed One (Jesus) is mentioned in those passages, in my opinion, is to let Israel know who their Messiah was after the fact. They were actually told when He would come! Well, and that by their belief in Him, they would complete the 70 weeks.

 

[jeffweeder]

Israel and Jerusalem will have completed the 70 weeks when Christ returns.

that would make the decree 350+ weeks and counting....

70 weeks would bring us to the end of Jesus ministry and salvation for all that believe through the cross.

It is finished...and so am I for tonight..................God bless you people real good.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

that would make the decree 350+ weeks and counting....

If the decree were to be fulfilled in 70 strictly consecutive weeks, then Israel and Jerusalem would be lovely places right now and the nations/gentiles would not know Jesus and be gone, destroyed forever.

70 weeks would bring us to the end of Jesus ministry and salvation for all that believe through the cross.

EXACTLY!...all that believe. The 70 weeks are decreed for Israel and Jerusalem. At the end of the 70th week, no matter how long the Gentile times gap, Israel and Jerusalem will believe and complete the decree.

It is finished...and so am I for tonight..................God bless you people real good.

Wow, I can't believe how late it is here, too! Yikes, the sun will be up in just 5 hours or so. I enjoyed our conversation! God bless you as well!!

 

[PROPHECYKID]

An important part that we are forgetting is what happened at the end of the 70 weeks. The Gospel was taken to the gentiles. The 70 week period was fro Jerusalem to get back on track. They rejected the covenant and they did not accept Jesus. After Jesus' death the disciples continued preaching only to the Jews until the stoning of Steven 3 1/2 years after Jesus dies. The time appointed to Israel was finished and they did not make a change thus the gospel was brought to the gentiles and God's chosen people ceased to be Israel and now consist of all those who accept him.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The text did not say that if any man be born in Israel but if any man be Christ's. That tells us that Gods chosen people has moved from a physical classification to a spiritual classification. The end of the 70 week period brought this to realization.

 

[holdon]

There is no doubt that Messiah would be cut off after 69 weeks. Therefore His work must have been done prior to His cutting off (His death), which in no way can then be the 70th week.
After the 69th week we see:
1. Messiah cut off (+-30AD)
2. The city and the sanctuary destroyed (70AD)
3. Wars until the end (ongoing "until the end")

Only thereafter do we read of the 70th week, when there shall come a prince from the same people who destroyed the city and sanctuary (= the Romans). It is this person who shall confirm a covenant with the many for that last week.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

An important part that we are forgetting is what happened at the end of the 70 weeks. The Gospel was taken to the gentiles. The 70 week period was fro Jerusalem to get back on track. They rejected the covenant and they did not accept Jesus. After Jesus' death the disciples continued preaching only to the Jews until the stoning of Steven 3 1/2 years after Jesus dies. The time appointed to Israel was finished and they did not make a change thus the gospel was brought to the gentiles and God's chosen people ceased to be Israel and now consist of all those who accept him.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The text did not say that if any man be born in Israel but if any man be Christ's. That tells us that Gods chosen people has moved from a physical classification to a spiritual classification. The end of the 70 week period brought this to realization.

The Jews rejected Jesus, yes, but that does not make the 70 week decree null and void.

Rom 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
Rom 11:27And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."

Rom 11:28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,
Rom 11:29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.



Israel and Jerusalem will complete all that is decreed in the 70 weeks. There was a pause between the 69th and 70th week to allow the Gentiles to come in. You have to accept Jesus' sacrifice in order to have a part in the New Covenant. Some Jews and many gentiles have done that for the nearly 2000 years. But Israel and Jerusalem WILL believe by the end of the 70th week (which has not yet begun) because it is foretold.

Furthermore, there are prophecies about Israel at or after the return of Christ that must come to pass! Big ones are in Zech 12-14 and Ezek 40-48, not to mention even in Revelation.

PS: Guys, I've invited "YeshuaMySalvation" who is a Messianic Jew to join us on this thread. Please be kind should he join us and give his opinion!

 

[YeshuamySalvation]

The Jews rejected Jesus, yes, but that does not make the 70 week decree null and void.

Rom 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
Rom 11:27And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."

Rom 11:28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,
Rom 11:29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.



Israel and Jerusalem will complete all that is decreed in the 70 weeks. There was a pause between the 69th and 70th week to allow the Gentiles to come in. You have to accept Jesus' sacrifice in order to have a part in the New Covenant. Some Jews and many gentiles have done that for the nearly 2000 years. But Israel and Jerusalem WILL believe by the end of the 70th week (which has not yet begun) because it is foretold.

Furthermore, there are prophecies about Israel at or after the return of Christ that must come to pass! Big ones are in Zech 12-14 and Ezek 40-48, not to mention even in Revelation.

PS: Guys, I've invited "YeshuaMySalvation" who is a Messianic Jew to join us on this thread. Please be kind should he join us and give his opinion!

Thanks for the invitation Jen. Lets start withThe Hebrew word "mashiyach" which should be translated rather then transliterated in the english language. The word appears as "Messiah in our translations." Yet take alook at how often it appears in scripture translated correctly below. Only on the two Daniel passages is it translated Messiah..

Anointed:

Lev 4:3, Lev 4:5, Lev 4:16, Lev 6:22, 1 Sam 2:10, 1 Sam 2:35, 1 Sam 12:3, 1 Sam 12:5, 1 Sam 16:6, 1 Sam 24:6, 1 Sam 24:6, 1 Sam 24:10, 1 Sam 26:9, 1 Sam 26:11, 1 Sam 26:16, 1 Sam 26:23, 2 Sam 1:14, 2 Sam 1:16, 2 Sam 1:21, 2 Sam 19:21, 2 Sam 22:51, 2 Sam 23:1, 1 Chr 16:22, 2 Chr 6:42, Psa 2:2, Psa 18:50, Psa 20:6, Psa 28:8, Psa 84:9, Psa 89:38, Psa 89:51, Psa 105:15, Psa 132:10, Psa 132:17, Isa 45:1, Lam 4:20, Hab 3:13


Messiah..
Dan 9:25, Dan 9:26

The author is focusing on the desecration of the Jewish temple caused by Antiochus Epiphanes.. In [verse 26] the anointed one is Zarubabel. Some consider it should be Onias III who was assinated in 171B.C.. Daniel 9:26 literaly says that this anointed would be cut-off and would be no more, note it does not say Mesiah the prince in Hebrew. This cannot represent Yeshua considering the fact that Yeshua rose in victory and did not cease to be. The man who caused the sacrifice and obliation to cease was the Wicked King Antiochus Who profaned the Jewish Temple not Yeshua!

My PC is giving me lots of problem so 'll be logging of for now.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Thanks for the invitation Jen. Lets start withThe Hebrew word "mashiyach" which should be translated rather then transliterated in the english language. The word appears as "Messiah in our translations." Yet take alook at how often it appears in scripture translated correctly below. Only on the two Daniel passages is it translated Messiah..

Anointed:

Lev 4:3, Lev 4:5, Lev 4:16, Lev 6:22, 1 Sam 2:10, 1 Sam 2:35, 1 Sam 12:3, 1 Sam 12:5, 1 Sam 16:6, 1 Sam 24:6, 1 Sam 24:6, 1 Sam 24:10, 1 Sam 26:9, 1 Sam 26:11, 1 Sam 26:16, 1 Sam 26:23, 2 Sam 1:14, 2 Sam 1:16, 2 Sam 1:21, 2 Sam 19:21, 2 Sam 22:51, 2 Sam 23:1, 1 Chr 16:22, 2 Chr 6:42, Psa 2:2, Psa 18:50, Psa 20:6, Psa 28:8, Psa 84:9, Psa 89:38, Psa 89:51, Psa 105:15, Psa 132:10, Psa 132:17, Isa 45:1, Lam 4:20, Hab 3:13


Messiah..
Dan 9:25, Dan 9:26

The author is focusing on the desecration of the Jewish temple caused by Antiochus Epiphanes.. In [verse 26] the anointed one is Zarubabel. Some consider it should be Onias III who was assinated in 171B.C.. Daniel 9:26 literaly says that this anointed would be cut-off and would be no more, note it does not say Mesiah the prince in Hebrew. This cannot represent Yeshua considering the fact that Yeshua rose in victory and did not cease to be. The man who caused the sacrifice and obliation to cease was the Wicked King Antiochus Who profaned the Jewish Temple not Yeshua!

My PC is giving me lots of problem so 'll be logging of for now.

I'm confused.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


You appear to be saying that it is translated correctly as Messiah in these passages but then said it refers to Zarubabel. What am I missing?

 

[jeffweeder]

No, it doesn't say that the Messiah is cut off in the midst of the week.

Jesus ministry was 3 1/2 years long ,so its halfway through the week. That week comes after this;

So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

The author is focusing on the desecration of the Jewish temple caused by Antiochus Epiphanes.. In [verse 26] the anointed one is Zarubabel.

There is only one person in history who can bring in the following;

to finish the transgression,
to make an end of sin,
to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness,
to seal up vision and prophecy
and to anoint the most holy place

I call Gabriel the Angel of Redemption, as he brings this decree and is on hand at the time of Messiahs birth.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Ok, guys, I'm going to try to pay attention. If Daniel 9 and the 70 weeks are fulfilled, you're going to have to prove it.

If the Anointed One mentioned in Daniel 9 is the Messiah Jesus, who comes and is cut off not between the 69th and 70th weeks but in the 70th week, then what are you saying?

...that there's only 3 1/2 years of that final 7 year week for the anti-christ remaining?

...that...?

 

[jeffweeder]

Ok, guys, I'm going to try to pay attention. If Daniel 9 and the 70 weeks are fulfilled, you're going to have to prove it.

hmmm.
It was a decree for Daniels people ,that finally ,atonement and redemption would be realised.
Jeremiah was given a time frame of 70 years, and daniel knew it was time for it to end.
He is given 70 week timeframe in which Messiah would bring in this salvation.
If the gospel was to offered to Gentiles, then Jesus would have to complete this redemption ,and he did.

They rejected this atonement and allows us to be grafted in.
70 weeks were determined for all those points in the decree and were fulfilled by his ressurection.

What if the Jews accepted christ at this time?
we would say that the 70 weeks are finished, as Jesus won redemption for them.

Its all their waiting for them, as Jesus fulfilled the decree.

that there's only 3 1/2 years of that final 7 year week for the anti-christ remaining?

I believe the Disciples continued to preach to Daniels people first as commanded and thousands were saved.
Wasnt long before they were scattered and the gospel was sent to the gentiles.

We go from being told 70 weeks and Messiahs work , to Jesus himself saying no-one knows the day or hour.

The firm covenant is the blood of Christ for all.
Is it possible for Anti christ to make a FIRM covenant?
His cov would be dodgey i think.

 

[YeshuamySalvation]

I'm confused.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


You appear to be saying that it is translated correctly as Messiah in these passages but then said it refers to Zarubabel. What am I missing?

In Hebrew the passage does not read Messiah the Prince; neither does the Hebrew say but not of himself; some times i wonder why was that translated like that. Rather then not of himself the Hebrew specifically says he will be no more. The Hebrew chatak in verse 24 for determined is a hapax legomenon, and only in late Mishnaic Hebrew does it mean divide. All reputable lexicons give decree as its meaning in Dan. 9:24. Now when one reads the text in the Hebrew language, it alludes to the arrival of an anointed [verse 25] which takes place seven weeks after the “word” is issued for the reconstruction of Jerusalem. Secondly, the sixty-two “weeks” represent a period of reconstruction of the city, which ends up having streets and a trench. The anointed person of verse 26 is “cut off” and to be no more after the 62 weeks, and there is no evidence whatever in the passage that he was cut off in the middle of a week.

There is no indication that this anointed continued to exist nor did he resurrect from the dead, which is evidently the case with Yeshua... After Yeshua died at calvary he did not cease to be as the Hebrew indicates in the Daniel 9:26 passage, but resurrected from the dead in power rather and ascended to the right hand of God.. We cant suggest that Yeshua is the one who put an end to the sacrifice in Daniel 9; it is clear it was the little horn that puts an an end to the sacrifices.. The expression The end therof shall be “with a flood,” means how sudden and without human intervention perhaps. Daniel. 9:26 is not in referance to the end of the city, but to “the ruler who will come”, that is, the Wicked Power. Quite frankly, Rome, Vespasian or Titus did not reach their end in AD 70 or before that time. The one confirming a covenant and putting an end to the daily offerings is not Yeshua, but “the wicked power who was to come,” the very same person who puts the winged “abomination that causes desolation” in the temple, this was also within the framework of the last week. The sacrifice is not interrupted in the middle of a week, but during half a week, which is not the same... From the context in Daniel 8, and 9 we must conclude that the santuary would be rectified and the santuary services where to resume once the half week came to it's conclusion. The Word Messiah is a transliteration not a translation so no it is not properly translated as messiah but as anointed. David and King Saul are called "mashiyach"in Hebrew, yet the translator did not translate the Hebrew "mashiyach" as Messiah. It seems to me that the translator of the King James translated it that way because he full heartedly believed that this was a reference to Jesus. There is no need to use this event as proof text that the messiah has already come.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

hmmm.
It was a decree for Daniels people ,that finally ,atonement and redemption would be realised.
Jeremiah was given a time frame of 70 years, and daniel knew it was time for it to end.
He is given 70 week timeframe in which Messiah would bring in this salvation.
If the gospel was to offered to Gentiles, then Jesus would have to complete this redemption ,and he did.

They rejected this atonement and allows us to be grafted in.
70 weeks were determined for all those points in the decree and were fulfilled by his ressurection.

What if the Jews accepted christ at this time?
we would say that the 70 weeks are finished, as Jesus won redemption for them.

Its all their waiting for them, as Jesus fulfilled the decree.

Ok...hmmm...

If Christ fulfilled the 70 week decree and items for completion for Israel and Jerusalem, then what about the events of the final week:

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.



The purpose of the 70 weeks is for Israel and Jerusalem to:

to finish the transgression,
to make an end of sin,
to make atonement for iniquity
to bring in everlasting righteousness,
to seal up vision and prophecy
and to anoint the most holy place

How do the events of the final week in Daniel 9:27 bring about the competion of this list?

They seem like opposites.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

In Hebrew the passage does not read Messiah the Prince; neither does the Hebrew say but not of himself; some times i wonder why was that translated like that. Rather then not of himself the Hebrew specifically says he will be no more. The Hebrew chatak in verse 24 for determined is a hapax legomenon, and only in late Mishnaic Hebrew does it mean divide. All reputable lexicons give decree as its meaning in Dan. 9:24. Now when one reads the text in the Hebrew language, it alludes to the arrival of an anointed [verse 25] which takes place seven weeks after the “word” is issued for the reconstruction of Jerusalem. Secondly, the sixty-two “weeks” represent a period of reconstruction of the city, which ends up having streets and a trench. The anointed person of verse 26 is “cut off” and to be no more after the 62 weeks, and there is no evidence whatever in the passage that he was cut off in the middle of a week.

There is no indication that this anointed continued to exist nor did he resurrect from the dead, which is evidently the case with Yeshua... After Yeshua died at calvary he did not cease to be as the Hebrew indicates in the Daniel 9:26 passage, but resurrected from the dead in power rather and ascended to the right hand of God.. We cant suggest that Yeshua is the one who put an end to the sacrifice in Daniel 9; it is clear it was the little horn that puts an an end to the sacrifices.. The expression The end therof shall be “with a flood,” means how sudden and without human intervention perhaps. Daniel. 9:26 is not in referance to the end of the city, but to “the ruler who will come”, that is, the Wicked Power. Quite frankly, Rome, Vespasian or Titus did not reach their end in AD 70 or before that time. The one confirming a covenant and putting an end to the daily offerings is not Yeshua, but “the wicked power who was to come,” the very same person who puts the winged “abomination that causes desolation” in the temple, this was also within the framework of the last week. The sacrifice is not interrupted in the middle of a week, but during half a week, which is not the same... From the context in Daniel 8, and 9 we must conclude that the santuary would be rectified and the santuary services where to resume once the half week came to it's conclusion. The Word Messiah is a transliteration not a translation so no it is not properly translated as messiah but as anointed. David and King Saul are called "mashiyach"in Hebrew, yet the translator did not translate the Hebrew "mashiyach" as Messiah. It seems to me that the translator of the King James translated it that way because he full heartedly believed that this was a reference to Jesus. There is no need to use this event as proof text that the messiah has already come.

Ok.

So, why did the angel mention this "anointed one" and divided time (the weeks) by not only the rebuilding of the temple but by his coming and being cut off? It would seem that would mean he's pretty important.

And, I agree that Daniel 8 and 9:27 are speaking of the same event...an evil guy causing sacrifices to cease and desolation.

How do we know that this is either in the past or yet future? I think it's yet future.

Dan 8:10 And it waxed great, [even] to the host of heaven; and it cast down [some] of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
Dan 8:11 Yea, he magnified [himself] even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily [sacrifice] was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
Dan 8:12 And an host was given [him] against the daily [sacrifice] by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
Dan 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain [saint] which spake, How long [shall be] the vision [concerning] the daily [sacrifice], and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
Dan 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.


A seven year week and 2300 days are pretty close to being the same, in my opinion.

It also lines up with what we know of the "anti-christ" from 2 Thess 2 and Revelation and even Daniel 11.

 

[gwynedd1]

In Hebrew the passage does not read Messiah the Prince; neither does the Hebrew say but not of himself; some times i wonder why was that translated like that. Rather then not of himself the Hebrew specifically says he will be no more. The Hebrew chatak in verse 24 for determined is a hapax legomenon, and only in late Mishnaic Hebrew does it mean divide. All reputable lexicons give decree as its meaning in Dan. 9:24. Now when one reads the text in the Hebrew language, it alludes to the arrival of an anointed [verse 25] which takes place seven weeks after the “word” is issued for the reconstruction of Jerusalem. Secondly, the sixty-two “weeks” represent a period of reconstruction of the city, which ends up having streets and a trench. The anointed person of verse 26 is “cut off” and to be no more after the 62 weeks, and there is no evidence whatever in the passage that he was cut off in the middle of a week.

There is no indication that this anointed continued to exist nor did he resurrect from the dead, which is evidently the case with Yeshua... After Yeshua died at calvary he did not cease to be as the Hebrew indicates in the Daniel 9:26 passage, but resurrected from the dead in power rather and ascended to the right hand of God.. We cant suggest that Yeshua is the one who put an end to the sacrifice in Daniel 9; it is clear it was the little horn that puts an an end to the sacrifices.. The expression The end therof shall be “with a flood,” means how sudden and without human intervention perhaps. Daniel. 9:26 is not in referance to the end of the city, but to “the ruler who will come”, that is, the Wicked Power. Quite frankly, Rome, Vespasian or Titus did not reach their end in AD 70 or before that time. The one confirming a covenant and putting an end to the daily offerings is not Yeshua, but “the wicked power who was to come,” the very same person who puts the winged “abomination that causes desolation” in the temple, this was also within the framework of the last week. The sacrifice is not interrupted in the middle of a week, but during half a week, which is not the same... From the context in Daniel 8, and 9 we must conclude that the santuary would be rectified and the santuary services where to resume once the half week came to it's conclusion. The Word Messiah is a transliteration not a translation so no it is not properly translated as messiah but as anointed. David and King Saul are called "mashiyach"in Hebrew, yet the translator did not translate the Hebrew "mashiyach" as Messiah. It seems to me that the translator of the King James translated it that way because he full heartedly believed that this was a reference to Jesus. There is no need to use this event as proof text that the messiah has already come.

Hello YeshuamySalvation,

This is a case of being technically correct but contextually off the mark. It is true that what is stated is anointed one. Now to give some idea as to the importance of context of a word like "king" one might conjure up all sorts of images of majesty unless I say burger as in Burger King. Quite a step down due to context.

This was the context.

Daniel 9

Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city: to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

An anointed one in Greek is Christ. In Greek it was Jesus the anointed. Jesus was anointed to fulfill all righteousness.


Also I believe God put an end to the sacrifice. The abomination could only come from Jews. God did not pay any heed nor would allow the nations to defile his sanctuary when Israel was faithful. The abomination could only happen from Israel and the nations were sent to destroy the abomination.

This is a New Revised standard with better Hebrew than the KJV

He shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall make sacrifice and offering cease; and in their place* shall be an abomination that desolates, until the decreed end is poured out upon the desolator.’

Eziekiel 8

7 And he brought me to the entrance of the court; I looked, and there was a hole in the wall. 8Then he said to me, ‘Mortal, dig through the wall’; and when I dug through the wall, there was an entrance. 9He said to me, ‘Go in, and see the vile abominations that they are committing here.’ 10So I went in and looked; there, portrayed on the wall all round, were all kinds of creeping things, and loathsome animals, and all the idols of the house of Israel.

The abominations precede the nations that destroy the sanctuary. In this case Babylon acted as God's agent to cleanse it.


When the zealots had invited the Idumeans to assist in the fight against Rome the authority in Jerusalem refused them entry. Outside was a storm and an earth quake which they had to endure outside the gate. This probably did not endear them to the authority in Jerusalem. The zealots had, in secrete, given them access to the city and the temple. The temple priests where slaughtered and the temple was polluted that even Josephus speculates that God would cleanse the abomination with fire(provided by Rome). It became a base of operations for the zealots. No one but the priests were supposed to be there and thus stood the abomination .

Josephus Book 4 Chapter 5 Wars of the Jews.

He also foresaw that of necessity a war would follow, and that unless the Jews made up matters with them very dexterously, they would be destroyed; to say all in a word, if Ananus had survived, they had certainly compounded matters; for he was a shrewd man in speaking and persuading the people, and had already gotten the mastery of those that opposed his designs, or were for the war. And the Jews had then put abundance of delays in the way of the Romans, if they had had such a general as he was. Jesus was also joined with him; and although he was inferior to him upon the comparison, he was superior to the rest; and I cannot but think that it was because God had doomed this city to destruction, as a polluted city, and was resolved to purge his sanctuary by fire, that he cut off these their great defenders and well-wishers, while those that a little before had worn the sacred garments, and had presided over the public worship; and had been esteemed venerable by those that dwelt on the whole habitable earth when they came into our city, were cast out naked, and seen to be the food of dogs and wild beasts. And I cannot but imagine that virtue itself groaned at these men's case, and lamented that she was here so terribly conquered by wickedness. And this at last was the end of Ananus and Jesus.

Here is an interesting Septuagint transliteration that may make use of our good understanding of the Greek.

25. And thou shalt know and understand, that from the going forth of the command for the answer and for the building of Jerusalem, until Christ the prince, there shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks; and then the time shall return, and the street shall be built, and the wall, and the times shall be exhausted.
26. And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations.
27. And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink offering shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of the time an end shall be put to the desolation.

http://shalach.org/Rapture/Daniel 9-26.htm

 

[holdon]

Ok...hmmm...

If Christ fulfilled the 70 week decree and items for completion for Israel and Jerusalem, then what about the events of the final week:

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.



The purpose of the 70 weeks is for Israel and Jerusalem to:

to finish the transgression,
to make an end of sin,
to make atonement for iniquity
to bring in everlasting righteousness,
to seal up vision and prophecy
and to anoint the most holy place

How do the events of the final week in Daniel 9:27 bring about the competion of this list?

They seem like opposites.

For some it makes perfect sense to put the 70th week before the 69th...... all while ignoring of course what the text says.

 

[holdon]

Here is an interesting Septuagint transliteration that may make use of our good understanding of the Greek.

http://shalach.org/Rapture/Daniel 9-26.htm

Yes, if you use such a corrupt rendering of Daniel 9 you can come to all kinds of conclusions of course.