It was more intended as a sign that I am starting to more and more convinced that the inability of evolutionist to dialogue with creationists is a moral problem with evolutionists. Lots of evolutionists have published dishonest science. I am just telling you straight up that the strawmen, quotes out of context and prosecutorial appeals to my character generally reveal the character of a number of evolutionists on this site.
When I started here, a number of evolutionists were particularly cruel to Helen Setterfield, who was a member of this "community", concerning her husband. The group has hardly improved since then, frankly.
Now Mike Disney, a guy working on Hubble confirms many of Setterfield's concerns.
Do you wonder why most of the creationists are gone? It is again a moral and character problem. Evolutionists are largely incapable of engaging anyone with even a modicum of respectful listening skills.
Certainly the character displayed here is far from the full measure of a person's character. Outside of the issues discussed here, you are probably perfectly lovely people to be around and work with. But right here, your walk sucks.
I can bless you here, but not for very little being posted here.
Blessings,
The guy who likens his posts to "throwing a stone at a hornet's nest" thinks
our criticisms of him are a sign of
our moral failure? Firstly, I think you can hardly expect avoid hearing provoked, angry TEs if you are openly trying to be provocative! As it is, we have hardly been uncivil towards you. I can back every criticism of you I have made with documentary evidence; I often do so right in the very posts I make. You, on the other hand, give neither reason nor rhyme for your repeated refusal to listen to what
we have to say.
You said that Mike Disney confirms Setterfield's worries. Did you bother to report on how TEs have responded to him? According to you, TEs are "largely incapable of engaging anyone with even a modicum of listening skills". And yet in the thread where you mentioned his work, three TEs have posted and not one has criticised his position, his statements, his work, his personal life, and indeed him. We have engaged with his points and even acknowledged that he is right in certain areas. When he says the Big Bang has a long way to go, we have listened. When he says that the Big Bang has no current viable alternatives, have
you listened?
And as for creationists leaving the subforum because of evolutionists' rudeness. Where is the empirical evidence for that? Sure, plenty of people can't take the heat. (And if you can't, why step into the kitchen? Our Father's house has many rooms; us violent chefs would probably fare far worse outside our kitchen.) And yet I've been here long enough to see the various reasons people leave. For example, remember flaja? If he really was scared away by us rude evolutionists, you would have expected him to complain about how rude we're being. And yet he didn't. I vividly remember his last posts
here,
here, and
here. What happened to stop his posting in those threads? He wasn't subjected to a barrage of personal attacks - he wasn't told, as you recently suggested, that "you believe dinosaurs were on the Ark - therefore everything you say is wrong". In fact, once posts with substantial evidence answering his questions were made, he simply dropped quiet. No complaints of abuse, no threats to report (and no reports, as far as I know). Simply sent away by evidence he couldn't answer.
Or take Buho. I immensely enjoyed his presence on my favorite thread,
The Scientific Myth of Creationism. When he finally had to sign out of that thread (to this day I don't know why he did), what did he say? Was he scared away by my copious insults? Did I burn a hole in his honour and his monitor? Had I exhibited moral and character problems? No:
As I've praised you before, I am very impressed with your cool of both sides, Shernren. You are very articulate, and posess great clarity of thought and logic. As before, it's a treat to discuss these things with you! I only hope that I have been shown to be equally courtious to you in the heat of the discussion as you have been with me.
Grace and peace to you, brother in Christ.
Mind, this came from a post which started with "Immediately, this is flawed"!
What am I trying to say? That evolutionists have never hurt creationists? Definitely not! We all have had our bad days; and we all have had our days when we deliberately set out to step on some creationist's hand after s/he had made a bad move that left them hanging by a grip off a ledge
a la Hollywood. But at the same time, these days are not exclusive indicators of our behavior; in fact, people with whom we have vehemently disagreed on both philosophy and evidence have walked away from heated debates both thoroughly frustrated by our unyieldingness and impressed by our speech. Have we never been insensitive, or crude, or underhanded? We have definitely been; we will be accountable before God for these things.
And yet, when you say that we do not accept what you say simply out of the principle of spiting creationists and spitting on supernaturalism, is such a judgment warranted? Perhaps the evidence is better supported by the idea that what you perceive you are receiving, is really just what you have been giving. I have taken the time and the care in this post to lay out exactly what I think of you and your claims about our moral inferiority. I have linked to posts (not a trivial thing to do on Firefox with certain extensions!), arranged my reasoning, presented my arguments, and generally appealed to your reason. What kind of responses have I gotten from you?
Well, wouldn't it be pretty to think so?
Shernren can't quite follow arguments he doesn't agree with, unfortunately.
Quite frankly, every time I have said that you aren't following an argument of mine, I have stated exactly which step I think you aren't following, elaborated on why that step is valid, appended examples and further information, and ended in cases by offering to teach as much as you require to understand me (if it is really lack of information, or lack of access to information, that is the problem). I don't mean to brag; it is only by God's grace that I am who and where I am today, and it is only by His Spirit that I do anything good in His sight at all. And yet - do you see the difference? I persuade, argue, reason, refute, even plead at times - all you do is blast off a "well, he can't follow what he doesn't agree with" and walk away, thinking you have done your job and that if we don't agree, we are obviously being obtuse and thick-skulled and stiff-necked and busy chuckling away in our hornet's nest at the fact that you believe in a historical Noah's Flood.
In all sincerity, busterdog, grow up.
