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When did you decide to become a creationist?

Baggins

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The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils. ~ Stephen Jay Gould
________________________
1:1 In the beginning Godcreated the heaven and the earth.
  1. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
  2. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female and created he them.
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:16-17 (KJV)


Oooh a quote mine and a random bible verse. Did you get your random bible verse generator at the same place as AV?

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/quotes/mine/part3.html

From the talk origins quote mine project, see quote mine #3.2
 
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JamesDaJust

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NailsII

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I'll say it again:
The point of having a worldview is making sure that worldview is correct.
Ergo your worldview should be testable.
Otherwise it is just speculation.
Or superstition.
Or, if it contradicts virtually ALL the evidence, maybe it is delusional.
 
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Inan3

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A little off topic, but does a creationist think God can be tested in anyway by science?

I say the theist God can be put to the test… and He fails.


Lee

To your question. NO

To your comment. How interesting. Then you are saying God is scientificly testable.
 
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Inan3

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JamesDaJust,

Prove the bible is the Word of God...AND prove that he isn't lying about anything he wrote in the bible.

Then I'll accept that all atheists are fools.

The Word of God will prove itself and God will prove Himself. He will do it in His time not yours. You don't have to accept anything you don't want to, BUT some things ... it's just foolish not to, and that is why the Bible says the fool has said in his heart there is no God.
 
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Inan3

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Otherwise it is just speculation.
Or superstition.
Or, if it contradicts virtually ALL the evidence, maybe it is delusional.

It doesn't contradict ALL the evidence just the erroneous evidence.:) BTW whether it be an alleged worldwide evidence or not. Sorry.
 
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Inan3

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If you think nature is all there is then why would you bother with a scientific 'test' for God?

Right on! Just as I said below! Great minds ... or is it spirits ... I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.
 
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Inan3

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Oooh a quote mine and a random bible verse. Did you get your random bible verse generator at the same place as AV?

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/quotes/mine/part3.html

From the talk origins quote mine project, see quote mine #3.2

Truth hurts doesn't it Baggins? So you pull out the sarcasm to combat. Thanks for the article though. Very revealing!:) This Quote Mine Project kind of reminds me of my minds visual of what I used to refer to as the E/A Manual. Maybe someone should do a E/A Quotes Project .... oh and then put it in book form with the title The Evolutionist / Atheists Manual I'm sure it would be a best seller. Anyways ....

I found this statement to be interesting...


So it would seem that Gould has no problems with the fossil record. But did he believe that transitional forms are lacking? Note that in the quote originally presented, the claim is made that they are rare, not absent. Also, as anyone who is familiar with Gould's writings will know, the text quoted reflects his recognition that, while there is a scarcity of transitional fossils between species, there is no such lack of transitional fossils between major groups.

First it didn't sound to me like he didn't have ANY problems with the fossil record.

The geological record is extremely imperfect and this fact will to a large extent explain why we do not find interminable varieties, connecting together all the extinct and existing forms of life by the finest graduated steps.

We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study.

This one is particularly good.
Darwin's argument still persists as the favored escape (whoa) of most paleontologists from the embarrassment of a record that seems to show so little of evolution [directly]

Secondly why is "there is a scarcity of transitional fossils between species, there is no such lack of transitional fossils between major groups"?
 
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Baggins

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Truth hurts doesn't it Baggins?


That you think that taking peoples comments out of context to make a point they didn't intend is "truth" is illuminating, but not suprising given your track record.

So you pull out the sarcasm to combat.


I've always found sarcasm a very useful tool, although I think I was being more humorous here rather than sarcastic.

Thanks for the article though. Very revealing!:) This Quote Mine Project kind of reminds me of my minds visual of what I used to refer to as the E/A Manual. Maybe someone should do a E/A Quotes Project .... oh and then put it in book form with the title The Evolutionist / Atheists Manual I'm sure it would be a best seller. Anyways ....

It is very sad that the scientific world needs a quote mine project in the first place; it is, after all, to prevent misrepresentation by people who claim to be moral because they are religious.

But as long as there are Christians ready and willing to lie for Jesus I'm afraid there will have to resources so their lies can be revealed for what they are.

In fact I don't think James was lying, he just trawled a creationist source and thought he'd found a handy stick to beat the opposition with, too bad he didn't do a quick google search to make sure that the quote meant what he hoped it meant.

First it didn't sound to me like he didn't have ANY problems with the fossil record.

We all have problems we the fossil record not being as abundant as we'd like. In Gould's case it comes because his "big idea", punctuated equilibrium, requires speciation over ( geologically ) short periods of time, which are unlikely to be abundant in the fossil record as it it isn't a complete record of every animal that ever lived. He bemoans the fact that while transitional fossils are common enough at higher taxonomic levels they are rare at the species level.

That isn't the sort of problem with the geological record that you think it is. he doesn't think it doesn't show evolution and even punctuated equilibrium, just that the specimens at species level are rare rather than abundant.




This one is particularly good.

And then you go and do a bit of quote mining yourself, how sad, you'd show yourself in a better light if you actually read what the man wrote in full rather than quote mining bits that you think support your claims that evolution is a lie.

Gould was a masterful writer and a great scientific communicator, you'd be a better read person if you read what he wrote and not what some creationist resource quote mined.

Secondly why is "there is a scarcity of transitional fossils between species, there is no such lack of transitional fossils between major groups"?

I have explained that above, it is particular problem with punctuated equilibrium as it is theorised to occur quickly and thus leaves less chance of transitional forms than changes at higher taxonomic levels which must take longer and are therefore more likely to show up.

The transition from dinosaurs to birds took many millions of years and left many intermediate fossil forms, so did the change from fish to terapods, land mammals to whales etc. the change due to punk eek of snail spA to snail spB may only have taken a few thousand or tens of thousands of years meaning there was a much lower chance of transitional forms being fossilised.
 
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thaumaturgy

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The Word of God will prove itself and God will prove Himself. He will do it in His time not yours.

So God simply doesn't care about what people would like. Fair enough. How many get to go to Hell before he "reveals all" and "proves himself"?

There is an apocryphal story about a famous atheist who, when asked what he would say to God upon dying and being put in front of the Heavenly Throne. When God asked him why he didn't believe, the famous atheist merely replied: "you didn't provide enough evidence that you existed, Lord."

I used to teach at the college level. One thing you learn quickly as a teacher is that if there is a large group of your students who completely mess up a section of a test, it may not be that the students are all fools, but that you, the teacher, didn't do a very good job of teaching the material.


You don't have to accept anything you don't want to, BUT some things ... it's just foolish not to, and that is why the Bible says the fool has said in his heart there is no God.

And what would those things be? And why should I trust that you would know them?

If God doesn't necessarily care if people "get it" (Mark 4:12), maybe you can pick up his slack and tell us what is foolish not to believe and why we should believe you. Presumably God can take care of himself.
 
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