A question for all Christian evolutionists

[silvy]

I thought I had been clear, but I will make it clearer.

Yes. I do believe God set up a system where we could have evolved without His direct intervention. I would actually have serious doubts about the omnipotence and omniscience of God if He were unable to set up a suitably elegant system to not require direct intervention. It's like making a watch you have to correct the time on every two weeks. It's just poor design to have to get involved constantly.

I said, "without ANY intervention from God" that means WITHOUT any of God's input in "setting up a system where we could have evolved without His direct intervention."

In a senario where there is no God, do you believe creatiion could have evolved into what it is today?

 

[[serious]]

I said, "without ANY intervention from God" that means WITHOUT any of God's input in "setting up a system where we could have evolved without His direct intervention."

In a senario where there is no God, do you believe creatiion could have evolved into what it is today?

Once again,

Under the natural laws, yes. But again, I believe God set up the natural laws. I believe that any omnipotent/omniscient god would be able to fashion natural laws that would not require constant involvement.

I really don't know how I can make this any clearer and in all honesty, I'm not even sure what you are missing.

 

[LewisWildermuth]

I said, "without ANY intervention from God" that means WITHOUT any of God's input in "setting up a system where we could have evolved without His direct intervention."

In a senario where there is no God, do you believe creatiion could have evolved into what it is today?

Well, that would be a silly question, we are Christians after all. One of the basic Christian tenants is that God created the universe.

So no God no universe, duh...

 

[silvy]

Well, that would be a silly question, we are Christians after all. One of the basic Christian tenants is that God created the universe.

So no God no universe, duh...

So, you believe that it is impossible for creation to exist without God's direct intervention? Yes?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Well, that would be a silly question, we are Christians after all. One of the basic Christian tenants is that God created the universe.

So no God no universe, duh...

So, you believe that it is impossible for creation to exist without God's direct intervention? Yes?

Careful, Lewis, I suspect this is the trap silvy's been trying to spring for the last three pages.

Sil's probably getting ready to spring something along the lines of "See! You're a Creationist after all!"

 

[AV1611VET]

So, you believe that it is impossible for creation to exist without God's direct intervention? Yes?

No ---

[bible]Colossians 1:16-17[/bible]

 

[silvy]

Once again,

Under the natural laws, yes. But again, I believe God set up the natural laws. I believe that any omnipotent/omniscient god would be able to fashion natural laws that would not require constant involvement.

I really don't know how I can make this any clearer and in all honesty, I'm not even sure what you are missing.

OK, so you're saying you believe creation could have evolved even if God didn't exist.

 

[AV1611VET]

OK, so you're saying you believe creation could have evolved even if God didn't exist.

If you ask me that --- the answer is NO.

 

[[serious]]

So, you believe that it is impossible for creation to exist without God's direct intervention? Yes?

once AGAIN:

I'm pretty sure all theistic evolutionists believe God set up the natural laws.

I think both Lewis and I believe that the natural laws allow for the evolution of man due to natural means.

WHAT IS NOT CLEAR ABOUT THIS?

 

[silvy]

once AGAIN:

I'm pretty sure all theistic evolutionists believe God set up the natural laws.

I think both Lewis and I believe that the natural laws allow for the evolution of man due to natural means.

WHAT IS NOT CLEAR ABOUT THIS?

Yeah, you've made yourself very clear, mate. You really are so smart aren't you? Pity you haven't the strength of character to answer my question truthfully.

 

[[serious]]

Yeah, you've made yourself very clear, mate. You really are so smart aren't you? Pity you haven't the strength of character to answer my question truthfully.

What are you asking that I haven't answered? What is confusing you?

You've asked my several yes or no questions and I answered them with... wait for it...

YES OR NO ANSWERS.

I really don't know how I can clarify my position on this any more.

Do I feel the natural laws allow for the evolution of man? yes yes yes, yes yes, yes yes YES. What is unclear?

Do I feel God set up the natural laws? Yes yes, yes yes absolutely YES. Again, what is unclear?

How can you ask a yes or no question, get a yes or no answer, and still complain?

 

[silvy]

What are you asking that I haven't answered? What is confusing you?

You've asked my several yes or no questions and I answered them with... wait for it...

YES OR NO ANSWERS.

I really don't know how I can clarify my position on this any more.

Do I feel the natural laws allow for the evolution of man? yes yes yes, yes yes, yes yes YES. What is unclear?

Do I feel God set up the natural laws? Yes yes, yes yes absolutely YES. Again, what is unclear?

How can you ask a yes or no question, get a yes or no answer, and still complain?

You're a real comedian. Have a nice day/night

 

[[serious]]

You're a real comedian. Have a nice day/night

No comedy involved. Just a bit of frustration at being accused of dodging yes or no questions with yes or no answers.

Anyway, I'm going to take a break from this thread. If you think of any other questions, I'll try to answer them sometime tomorrow. I do think you would benefit from reading over my answers again and trying to understand my point of view on this.

Currently, I can only assume that you are not getting the answers you were expecting and are getting frustrated yourself. I would suggest that someone may have presented you with a strawman of what theistic evolutionists believe. Perhaps you could tell us what you thought our answers would be and we could explain why that wouldn't make sense.

 

[truth above all else]

So, you believe that it is impossible for creation to exist without God's direct intervention? Yes?

Please cut to the chase, dont use double negatives to prompt a response, it appears you're attempting to interrogate a hostile witness, please state your point soberly and succintly..I'm still waiting and into my third bourbon already.

 

[Gracchus]

Please cut to the chase, dont use double negatives to prompt a response, it appears you're attempting to interrogate a hostile witness, please state your point soberly and succintly..I'm still waiting and into my third bourbon already.

She is acting like a lawyer, and a very bad TV version at that. In California, a witness is always allowed to explain answers. Even the law recognizes that sometimes there is no simple "yes" or "no" answer to a question, and the law, sir, is an ass.

 

[LewisWildermuth]

What the heck?

Did I not give yes and no answers? I did try to make my position clear, not tap dance around anything...

What was wrong with my yeses and noes?

 

[LewisWildermuth]

Careful, Lewis, I suspect this is the trap silvy's been trying to spring for the last three pages.

Sil's probably getting ready to spring something along the lines of "See! You're a Creationist after all!"

Well, I am a creationist, just not in the way that has to deny reality, I belive God created.

I also accept science and think that they are doing a great job figuring out how it was done.

 

[Chalnoth]

Silvy, I am under the impression that you had intended to trap people like Dantose and LewisWildermuth in a contradiction, and convinced yourself that you had caught them in such a contradiction. You didn't. They gave honest answers, and you have given them no reason whatsoever to think they are incorrect.

Now, granted, I think they're both demonstrably incorrect, about the existence of God, but this isn't really the place to discuss that.

 

[Elduran]

Yeah, you've made yourself very clear, mate. You really are so smart aren't you? Pity you haven't the strength of character to answer my question truthfully.

Wow, what a trollish thing to say.

 

[Nathan Poe]

If you ask me that --- the answer is NO.

If you will recall, AV, the question in the OP was directed at Christian evolutionists. It's already well-established that you don't fall into this category.