Is homosexuality an Abomination before the Lord?

[Annabel Lee]

How do you know its rude and immature? Why do you come in to judge something you know nothing about in another persons home, when you have no idea what its about? lol

Because leaving unfriendly comments in the rep feature is by it's very nature rude and immature.
It just shouldn't be done.
Any disagreement should be dealt with by pm, if at all.

This is MY home and i know nothing about it except to say its not my business

OK

 

[HisKid1973]

I think he was commenting against the folks leaving unfriendly comments on NG's rep feature...

Yes I was ..Thank you...It should be for anyones rep ..What ever we do in word and deed is unto the Lord...We are to let no unwholesome word( thru mouth or keyboard) proceed from our mouth but that is for edification..

 

[Rhamiel]

Vambram

Please do not assume that those of us here whom are talking about the sin of homosexuality "look the other way" concerning fornication and other heterosexual sins

I am sorry, I was not talking about you or anyone here, I should have said that in my post. i mean nominal christians who do not really follow the Bible, to them the homosexual is hated because he or she is differant and it is not based on morals but comes out of being bigoted and has the same root as sexism or raceism, but these people use the Bible as an excuse to hate the sin and the sinner but rationalize away there own fornication.
Agian sorry if anyone thought I ment people here

 

[HisKid1973]

Reading the scriptures and letting them work in you via the Holy Spirit should only lead you to maturity...Someone walking in adultery or willfully having a sexual encounter with their same sex is dipleasing God..Sin is sin and will take us away from our walk with Christ rather than growth..But just look at creation as a pattern and how things were set up..God man a female for the male..Then man abndoned what was "natural"..For some reason I just don't see that in the same light as adultery... I do know that God has delivered people from both..shalom..Kim

 

[JimfromOhio]

So you are argueing that a practicing homosexual is saved... this is not a conservative doctrine at all, you are running contrary to conservative doctirne in my opinion...

Is there a second to this or am i missing something lol

I'm not sure that's exactly what he's saying. For clarification, I will try asking this: Jim, would you agree that willfully continuing in ongoing sin is potential evidence of an unregenerate heart?

Obviously it's not our job to condemn anyone to hell. However, when we see evidence of unrepentant ongoing sin, we are commanded to treat the person as an unbeliever, in effort to guide them to the truth (this is biblical love). Would you agree with that?

I will do the same as I did with Word of Faith. They imply that those who are not healed are not considered "saved" because of their "lack of faith". All this by making bad theology regarding an appearance of someone is saved or not.

I have said in the past and I will say again. These are things about which we cannot afford to be wrong; to be wrong is still to be lost and far from God. Let us never forget that the Word of God stresses the importance of conviction and concern and repentance when it comes to conversion, spiritual regeneration, being born from above by the Spirit of God. Repenting is picking up the cross by rejecting the world. Romans 6:6 "For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—" Galatians 5:24 "Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires."

All I am saying, it is NOT my place to judge whether a "practicing sinner" is saved or not. Only God knows who are HIS. I DISLIKE people judging others about their salvation when they don't know for sure.

 

[IamRedeemed]

I will do the same as I did with Word of Faith. They imply that those who are not healed are not considered "saved" because of their "lack of faith".

I have heard a lot of things, but I have personally never heard
of someone's salvation being called into question because someone
lacked faith to be healed. Do you have any substantiation for this claim at all Jim?

 

[Time2BCounted]

I will do the same as I did with Word of Faith. They imply that those who are not healed are not considered "saved" because of their "lack of faith". All this by making bad theology regarding an appearance of someone is saved or not.

I have said in the past and I will say again. These are things about which we cannot afford to be wrong; to be wrong is still to be lost and far from God. Let us never forget that the Word of God stresses the importance of conviction and concern and repentance when it comes to conversion, spiritual regeneration, being born from above by the Spirit of God. Repenting is picking up the cross by rejecting the world. Romans 6:6 "For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—" Galatians 5:24 "Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires."

All I am saying, it is NOT my place to judge whether a "practicing sinner" is saved or not. Only God knows who are HIS. I DISLIKE people judging others about their salvation when they don't know for sure.

You are still somewhat vague Jim. Are you implying in other words, that you believe a practicing homosexual can claim to be saved and be so, and its ok to ordain practicing homosexuals?

 

[Time2BCounted]

I have heard a lot of things, but I have personally never heard
of someone's salvation being called into question because someone
lacked faith to be healed. Do you have any substantiation for this claim at all Jim?

I've never heard anything of the sort myself.

 

[rmw8855]

I will do the same as I did with Word of Faith. They imply that those who are not healed are not considered "saved" because of their "lack of faith". All this by making bad theology regarding an appearance of someone is saved or not.

I have said in the past and I will say again. These are things about which we cannot afford to be wrong; to be wrong is still to be lost and far from God. Let us never forget that the Word of God stresses the importance of conviction and concern and repentance when it comes to conversion, spiritual regeneration, being born from above by the Spirit of God. Repenting is picking up the cross by rejecting the world. Romans 6:6 "For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—" Galatians 5:24 "Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires."

All I am saying, it is NOT my place to judge whether a "practicing sinner" is saved or not. Only God knows who are HIS. I DISLIKE people judging others about their salvation when they don't know for sure.

Hey Jim - I'm Word of Faith and I don't believe that.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Amen, walking in rebellion (refusing to turn from the habitual sin
whatever it is) in addition to denying what God has said is sin, and actually
crediting the sin to God by calling it "a blessing" or "a gift from God" and "holy"
is at the least displeasing to God. It is also gravely deceiving themselves.

Reading the scriptures and letting them work in you via the Holy Spirit should only lead you to maturity...Someone walking in adultery or willfully having a sexual encounter with their same sex is dipleasing God..Sin is sin and will take us away from our walk with Christ rather than growth..But just look at creation as a pattern and how things were set up..God man a female for the male..Then man abndoned what was "natural"..For some reason I just don't see that in the same light as adultery... I do know that God has delivered people from both..shalom..Kim

 

[desmalia]

I have heard a lot of things, but I have personally never heard
of someone's salvation being called into question because someone
lacked faith to be healed. Do you have any substantiation for this claim at all Jim?

I know what Jim is talking about there. Some of the WOF members in the Spirit-Filled section talk like that. One even told me that my dad died of cancer due to my lack of faith. That was just a few weeks after his death too. Really nice. Unfortunately, it's not isolated. Many who buy into "health and wealth" theology feel that way. If you don't get healing, you don't have the Holy Spirit, and therefore are not saved. Period.

However, claiming someone does not have the Holy Spirit because they don't have a spiritual gift is not the same as recognizing the symptoms of an unrepentant heart, IMO.

 

[SolomonVII]

Okay, I have a question. For those who believe there are degrees of sin, is homosexuality more or less of a sin than adultery. Please explain.

Lisa

I do believe there are degrees of sin.
I don't equate murder, for example, with stealing a gumdrop.

Now my answer won't be fully biblical, but if the descent into hell and hopelessness can be depicted as a road, or of descending levels as Dante conceptualized, then likely there it may be possible to see that in different sins we arrive at varying degrees of of separation from God.

Now in sexual matters, there is most possibly a divine purpose. The purpose is described as being of one flesh, for in terms of our sexuality and entering in the procreative act for which sexuality was inherently designed to fulfill, it is apparent that there is neither man or woman independant of each other, but man and woman are the basic unit of sexuality.
Neither alone is adequate to fulfill the purpose alone, nor will duplicating the one without the other allow the one-flesh union to be fully realized.

Not just procreation, not just love, but the realization of both with a eternal union of two flesh into one is according to the divine plan.
This is the traditional conservative understanding of our sexuality, backed by nature, and by 2000 years of Christian reasoning.
Adn even if the possiblity of any particular union is as proable of begatting a child as ,say the one flesh union of Abraham and his crone Sarah, even so, just in participating in the form of sexuality that God designed for us, all heterosexual couples are supporting and reflecting God's purpose through their sexuality.

Now if this one flesh unity is what God had in mind, and there is enough biblical evidence that this is what He does have in mind, then it becomes apparent that homosexuality is yet another stage removed from God's plan than would even be adultery. For however much deception and deceit and perversion of the family unity is involved in the latter, it at least is more of the form of God's design for the sexual act than the former.

There is yet the hope and promise of children and new life that comes from even the bad and malevolent forms of heterosexual union, and homosexuality in many ways turns its back toward this hope.

Not that there may or may not be love in a homosexual activity, but that thery will not be children coming from such a union.

That to me is a profoundly sad, profoundly hopeless state of affairs.

For the waxing and waning of sexual passion is the usual state of affairs for human sexual attraction. Should such an attraction then really be the measure that defines our sexuality?
And when lovers inevitably become at best friends, what will be the fruit of their passions in the first place, if not children?

 

[IamRedeemed]

Yes, I don't think there are any people here that believe that way and frankly there
is no such thing in the Word of God called a "nominal" Christian, but there is a such thing
as "lukewarm" and "hearers only" and the Word does have a few things to say about that.

Vambram
I am sorry, I was not talking about you or anyone here, I should have said that in my post. i mean nominal christians who do not really follow the Bible, to them the homosexual is hated because he or she is differant and it is not based on morals but comes out of being bigoted and has the same root as sexism or raceism, but these people use the Bible as an excuse to hate the sin and the sinner but rationalize away there own fornication.
Agian sorry if anyone thought I ment people here

 

[Vambram]

Vambram
I am sorry, I was not talking about you or anyone here, I should have said that in my post. i mean nominal christians who do not really follow the Bible, to them the homosexual is hated because he or she is differant and it is not based on morals but comes out of being bigoted and has the same root as sexism or raceism, but these people use the Bible as an excuse to hate the sin and the sinner but rationalize away there own fornication.
Agian sorry if anyone thought I ment people here

Okay, brother. Thank you for the explanation. And I do agree here with what you said in the explanation.

 

[MrJim]

Yes, I don't think there are any people here that believe that way and frankly there
is no such thing in the Word of God called a "nominal" Christian, but there is a such thing
as "lukewarm" and "hearers only" and the Word does have a few things to say about that.

...don't forget the "carnal Christians"
1Cor3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

 

[JimfromOhio]

I have heard a lot of things, but I have personally never heard
of someone's salvation being called into question because someone
lacked faith to be healed. Do you have any substantiation for this claim at all Jim?

I could link many references of posts of my debates with them if you want to see what they said. It will take some time for me to find them since I have stopped debating with them.

 

[JimfromOhio]

You are still somewhat vague Jim. Are you implying in other words, that you believe a practicing homosexual can claim to be saved and be so, and its ok to ordain practicing homosexuals?

I do have some concerns with some who are "professed Christians" in this world. I have this concerns for all sinners, not just homosexual. There are millions of professing Christians who "think" they have been justified, who think their sins are forgiven and that they are on their way to heaven, who show no evidence of the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit in their lives. Many Christians are unthinkably horrified when a real sinner is suddenly discovered among the righteous. So we remain alone with our sin, living in lies and hypocrisy. This includes ALL of us in this forum.

I would NOT even come near a church that allows an "open" homosexual to serve is not a conservative Church. It is not my place to judge them whether they are saved or not. However, I can ASSUME that they are unsaved based on their "fruits".

I like A.W. Tozer's quote......
I see things and I hear of things that Chistian people are doing, and as I watch them operate within the profession of Chrisitanity, I do raise the question of whether they have been truly converted. - A.W. Tozer, I Call it Heresy

He raise the question but he won't say whether a person is saved or not. I will do the same.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Hey Jim - I'm Word of Faith and I don't believe that.

But you do KNOW those who do. Have you seen my debates with those who do?

 

[JimfromOhio]

I know what Jim is talking about there. Some of the WOF members in the Spirit-Filled section talk like that. One even told me that my dad died of cancer due to my lack of faith. That was just a few weeks after his death too. Really nice. Unfortunately, it's not isolated. Many who buy into "health and wealth" theology feel that way. If you don't get healing, you don't have the Holy Spirit, and therefore are not saved. Period.

Maybe this is a good time to show an example of a post. I will start searching. I think I know which thread.

 

[JimfromOhio]

...don't forget the "carnal Christians"
1Cor3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Amen.

Carnal person is a Christian who still has self on the throne (selfishness). Christ is still in there somewhere, running around, but He is not in charge, and the life is still in chaos. There's no Lordship. For a Spiritual Christian, Self is off the throne (self-less), Christ is on it, and the life is all in order.