Abortion

[andross77]

1 Corinthians 13

 

[cakes&buttercream]

I agree this is off topic and i agree i get a little angry at people that are "pro-baby murderers". Yes God wiped out wicked nations and many people were killed in the Flood but those were special circumstances. You can't use those as examples for someone who goes into a clinic and asked to get a baby sucked out of them with a vacuum. There is no corelation. God would not condone that just b/c he ordered that wicked nations that gave themselves up to all kinds of evil be destroyed as they opposed his chosen nation. Plus that was during the time of the old covenant before we had Christ, His Spirit and the New Covenant. You are comparing apples and oranges when you do that.

I stand by my comment that a person who is "pro-baby murderer" is not a Christian, i just probably shouldn't say that out loud very often. You can think that is judgement or that i'm saying something that only God could say but it's all right in Scripture.

And i am a Christian. The reason being i believe Jesus is the Son of God. I have confessed with my mouth that i am a sinner in need of Grace and i trust the promises of God that he is preparing a place for me in heaven to enjoy his fellowship forever. ALSO, i agree that all his precepts and commandments are good and i desire to follow them and even if i don't, i ask forgiveness and acknowledge them as the Truth.

This is what you lack. You don't value life when you are a "pro-baby murderer" and so you do not agree that God's commands and precepts are Truth. You use emotions, circumstances, and the mom's rights to override God's laws.

You can call me insensitive for saying so or that i'm totally off my rocker, but i believe it. I'm still waiting on verses where God says it is a good thing to kill babies. And you can not just cherry pick 1 or 2 verses from Scripture. You have to take them ALL into account. So i acknowledge the verses in the OT where God commands an innocent nation to be wiped out (which would include women, children and babies) but i also acknowledge all the verses where he punishes people with death for causing the death of a baby in a womans womb (leviticus) and all the other verses where He esteems life above all. The OT verses were special circumstances that you have to keep in their context.

So if you can show me an argument from ALL of Scripture that says murdering babies is OK, i will deeply consider what you have to say and comment on it (and change my viewpoint if you are right). But until then you are just saying, "you are mean" or "you can't live up to the Christian standard" or other things that are way dodging the issue.

i WONT say that you are mean.. but you deffinitely are judgemental, which Christians are NOT suppose to be

 

[Vigilante]

i WONT say that you are mean.. but you deffinitely are judgemental, which Christians are NOT suppose to be

*cough,* performative contradiction, *cough,* *cough*

 

[andross77]

The Spirit has convicted me of my unloving attitude. Following 1 Corinthians 13, i can have everything, even a complete knowledge and understanding of the topic of abortion (WHICH I DON'T) and if i have not love, i have NOTHING. So any of my statements have been cancelled out and are meaningless since i didn't communicate them with utmost love.

Also, we are to be judged by the measure with which we judge others. So i need to make sure that my measure is as grace and mercy-filled as humanly possible. I was not straining for that with my comments here. So i am deleting all my posts as inappropriate and have asked forgiveness from Calliso who i had the main argument with. Please carry on the discussion (if possible) and i will try not to post again until i can do it in a loving manner.

Blessings.

 

[cakes&buttercream]

*cough,* performative contradiction, *cough,* *cough*

I'm not in any way judging, but thats what your statement sounded like.. that you were judging. I don't judge anyone...that isn't my business, rather GOD's.
I was just stating what message your comment sent.

 

[LadyOfMystery]

Me and my friend were talking about our views on abortion and even though both of us were against it my friend said if she became pregnant in her situation now (student) she would have an abortion. I argued with her as i just don't get if you are so against something why would you do it. I mean I'm not judging anyone who has has an abortion but for me I just couldn't, I know many people have their different reason for having an abortion.

I just wondered what people thought about my friend's attitude of being against it but she would still have one surely they conflict with each other?

I'm totally against abortion, and if she's totally full heartedly against abortion she wouldn't even have thoughts about aborting her child if she got pregnant. If she's thinking about the child she should give it up for adoption to a wife and husband that need/want a child. So yeah. She must not totally disagree with it otherwise she wouldn't even think about doing it.

 

[Calliso]

Me and my friend were talking about our views on abortion and even though both of us were against it my friend said if she became pregnant in her situation now (student) she would have an abortion. I argued with her as i just don't get if you are so against something why would you do it. I mean I'm not judging anyone who has has an abortion but for me I just couldn't, I know many people have their different reason for having an abortion.

I just wondered what people thought about my friend's attitude of being against it but she would still have one surely they conflict with each other?

Ok I am actually going to address the opening now. Yeah they do conflict. Your friend can;t be against abortion as much as it seems she claims if she is sure she would have one if she got pregnant! So you friend might not like the idea of abortion but she shouldn;t say she is totally against it.

 

[Weasel7711]

motion to abort the thread

Now thats an abortion I CAN support.

 

[StarCannon]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigilante
motion to abort the thread


Now thats an abortion I CAN support.

I concur.

 

[Vigilante]

I'm not in any way judging, but thats what your statement sounded like.. that you were judging. I don't judge anyone...that isn't my business, rather GOD's.
I was just stating what message your comment sent.

Couple points...

1. "My statement"? I haven't written a single post about abortion in this entire thread. You were replying to another poster, remember?

2. Even though I'm outside of this entire conversation, I think you should read this:

Stand to Reason: Scoop on Judging
http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6071

You'll find it helpful (and others in this thread) in understanding the right relationship between Christians and "judging." It's roughly equivalent to one page in MS Word, double-spaced with size "12" font.

 

[cakes&buttercream]

Couple points...

1. "My statement"? I haven't written a single post about abortion in this entire thread. You were replying to another poster, remember?

2. Even though I'm outside of this entire conversation, I think you should read this:

Stand to Reason: Scoop on Judging
http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6071

You'll find it helpful (and others in this thread) in understanding the right relationship between Christians and "judging." It's roughly equivalent to one page in MS Word, double-spaced with size "12" font.

I am sorry I implied you as making the judgemental statement. Forgive me... I know you weren't the one who made the comment.

 

[Vigilante]

no worries...it's cool

 

[Weasel7711]

Great article

 

[Valens]

My opinion :
1. Abortion is murder. Point. Can you say that an embryo is not alive and a foetus is, when it's only a difference of age? People aren't alive and dead at the same time.
2. Rather than looking after the consequences of a problem, we should worry after the causes (I know I'm no better than anyone, but this is the point).


V

 

[Vigilante]

Great article

Glad you liked it.

My opinion :
1. Abortion is murder. Point. Can you say that an embryo is not alive and a foetus is, when it's only a difference of age? People aren't alive and dead at the same time.
2. Rather than looking after the consequences of a problem, we should worry after the causes (I know I'm no better than anyone, but this is the point).


V

There's nothing wrong with killing a foetus!

Wait, what's a foetus?

 

[NDNgirl4ever]

Legal to protect women? You do realize that women die now during abortions. Of the ones that are ok, how many very much regret even doing it.

Perhaps if they could not walk down the street, throw 500 bucks on the table and have an abortion, they would remember to use birth control next time.

Yes, every medical procedure or condition, including abortion AND pregnancy, have complications and risks, including death. Many women also die of complications of pregnancy and childbirth, which is something that I've noticed that anti-abortion people fail to mention alot of the time. At least Planned Parenthood is honest and admits that there can be severe complications.

The risk of death would be much higher if abortion were illegal. So yes, keeping abortion legal protects women!

1. Abortion is murder. Point. Can you say that an embryo is not alive and a foetus is, when it's only a difference of age? People aren't alive and dead at the same time

It's not a difference of age at all. It's a difference of physical development, and the difference is HUGE.

 

[Valens]

Wait, what's a foetus?

A fetus (I wrot foetus because in french it's written "foetus") is the prenatal stage of developement that takes place after the 8th week of the gestations (by humans). To make it short :
fertilisation -> 8th week : embryo
8th week -> birth : fetus


[edit]

The risk of death would be much higher if abortion were illegal. So yes, keeping abortion legal protects women!

I must agree. However, just as I said before, abortion is not the problem, it is a consequence. Unfortunately, we human beings are quite gifted not seeing causes and treating only consequences. It's sad, it's lame, but it's human, and that's part of what we should try to better in ourself.

It's not a difference of age at all. It's a difference of physical development, and the difference is HUGE.

Once again, I must agree (sorry, I speak better english than I write it, and I haven't had much practise these times ). The thing I should have asked is when do we set the beginning of life?


V

 

[Vigilante]

A fetus (I wrot foetus because in french it's written "foetus") is the prenatal stage of developement that takes place after the 8th week of the gestations (by humans). To make it short :
fertilisation -> 8th week : embryo
8th week -> birth : fetus

I know. I was just teasing.

 

[DreamboatAnnie]

I think we have a long ways to go to understand why some women still choose this.

 

[xXxKristaxXx]

I personally do not believe in it, my sister on the other hand did get one when she was younger (in her early 20's) and now she regrets it horribly. I would never get one, if worst came to worst I would put it up for adoption but even that would be very hard for me. It's killing a human, I hope they stop doing that.