The Flood

[Loudmouth]

Right --- the zircons didn't morph --- but everything else --- including the ground they rested/embedded on did.

What?

Zircons form through regular chemistry, just like ice crystals forming from liquid water. When zircons crystalize they exclude lead and include uranium just like water excludes salt when it crystalizes. When you find lead in zircons the only way it could have gotten there is through the decay of uranium. That is why zircons can be dated with U/Pb dating (and presumably Pb/Pb isochron dating).

Well --- it may be time for you "scientists" to start giving us a different explanation anyway. I'm sure you'll wait for the peer review (or vote) first.

I find it is better to look at the evidence than pretend a 2,000 year old book is infallible fact.

 

[Inan3]

Psalm 119:130
The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

This is always the argument. You've been given understanding that I can't have. Yet your book claims that it's understandable even to the "simple".

Here's the thing. Your god has to exist first. I see no reason to believe that this is so. Therefore you have no special knowledge, no magical revelations. You're just a man who has managed to delude himself more than the usual.

I'm NOT a man first of all and secondly, you CAN have it. It's totally up to you.

It won't be understandable to those who close their hearts and say, I don't believe there even is a God, though! You have to change your mind. The scripture says the FOOL has said in his heart there is no God. If even the simple can understand it then why would someone cut off the the LIGHT of God's word? I don't get it. For what? He'd have to be a fool to do so.

You quoted the scripture that the "entrance of thy word giveth light, it giveth understanding unto the simple" The operative word here is "entrance" you have to give it entrance with an open heart. Jesus said that He spoke in parables so that hearing they would not hear and seeing they would not see. You can't have it all. You can't dismiss God as a fairytale and then be able to see and understand His truth. It doesn't and won't work that way. It's all in your control and you choose to do it your way. That's your right.

What God wants to do is

Act 26:18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

But even God can't do that if you won't let Him. He has bound Himself to your will on the subject. He will do all that He can to get your attention. He'll send people, thoughts, articles your way, whatever, but He waits for you to make the decision. ONLY you can make the choice to give God's word "entrance" into your heart.

Don't be a Jerusalem and resist the Lord.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!

Or those invited to the wedding

Mat 22:3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not
come.

And

Jer 6:17 Also I set watchmen over you, [saying], Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.

Finally Jesus says,

Joh 5:37 The Father who sent me also speaks for me, but you have never heard his voice or seen him face to face. Joh 5:38 You have not believed his message, because you refused to have faith in the one he sent. Joh 5:39 You search the Scriptures, because you think you will find eternal life in them. The Scriptures tell about me, Joh 5:40 but you refuse to come to me for eternal life.

Phred, don't refuse Him. He loves you more than all of these.

 

[Loudmouth]

It won't be understandable to those who close their hearts and say, I don't believe there even is a God, though!

So let me get this straight. In order to believe in God you must first believe in God?

The scripture says the FOOL has said in his heart there is no God.

That's a stunner. You mean to tell me that CHRISTIAN scriptures state that people are stupid for not being CHRISTIAN? Didn't see that one coming.

Jesus said that He spoke in parables so that hearing they would not hear and seeing they would not see.

What did Jesus say of those who read parables as literal history?

 

[LittleNipper]

So let me get this straight. In order to believe in God you must first believe in God?



That's a stunner. You mean to tell me that CHRISTIAN scriptures state that people are stupid for not being CHRISTIAN? Didn't see that one coming.



What did Jesus say of those who read parables as literal history?

A parable does not have to be a pretend story. A parable is a story (either true or made up) with a moral. The story of the Titanic could be a parable to those who imagine that technology is trustworthy above GOD.
One must first accept aht GOD exists in order to place one's trust in HIM. A fool imagines that there is no GOD. That only makes idiots out of atheists. And that isn't hard to prove-----just read their messages.

 

[Phred]

One must first accept aht GOD exists in order to place one's trust in HIM. A fool imagines that there is no GOD. That only makes idiots out of atheists. And that isn't hard to prove-----just read their messages.

And you just happen to know which god of course. You're smarter and better and wiser than us atheists. We know just by reading your messages.

 

[FishFace]

Right --- the zircons didn't morph --- but everything else --- including the ground they rested/embedded on did.

Everything else that we have so far been able to date, as far as I know. Is that somehow problematic? In case you didn't notice, the earth changes quite a lot. I mean, the earth's core is probably still pretty much the same thing, but surface features change constantly. We can observe this on other planets.

Well --- it may be time for you "scientists" to start giving us a different explanation anyway. I'm sure you'll wait for the peer review (or vote) first.

You realise the quote deals only with the presence of water?

 

[FishFace]

I'll say one thing before I go --- when the Lord gets here --- we're all gonna get what's coming to us --- myself included.

But you guys are about as dishonest as they come.

That's actually pretty offensive. Given that you haven't given any examples of this supposed dishonesty - how are we supposed to A) defend ourselves and B) correct ourselves if necessary?

 

[Baggins]

These rocks with their isotopic clocks reset, did they go around the sun 4.55 billion times?

Stop being a dummy AV you know the answer.

Yes the earth has been around the sun approximately 4.5 billion times.

Most of the dateable rocks on the earth date younger than 4.5 billion years because they have been heated to a temperature high enough to reset their isotopic ratios.

The oldest rock on earth, a zircon, dates to slightly younger than this therefore the earth is older. By dating other extra terrestrial fragments when can date the formation of the solar system and hence the earth to 4.5 billion years.

By definition this means the earth has been around the sun 4.5 billion times.

 

[Baggins]

I'll try one more time to add some credibility with this thread, before I gladly checkmark it into infinity:

I'm sure this has already been answered many times, but anyway

You're getting snitty AV, it isn't our fault you can't understand simple scientific concepts.

How many times has Zircon gone around the sun?

Zircon is is ZiSiO4 it is a crystaline mineral, one particular zircon has been around the earth approximately 4.4 billion times.

How old is the earth?

Older than that zircon, approx 4.5 billion years old

How old is the universe?

Approx 13.7 billion years

Three amazingly-easy questions.

True, what's the betting you will feign incomprehension of the 3 amazingly simple answers?

 

[AV1611VET]

The fact that some people appear to be proud of their ignorance of science saddens me.

Either that, or some people hold science up to a higher Standard.

It is sad that you show such fear of knowledge.

Ya --- tell us about "fear of knowledge."

9 They set their mouth against the heavens, and their tongue walketh through the earth.

...

11 And they say, How doth God know? and is there knowledge in the most High?

 

[Baggins]

I'll say one thing before I go --- when the Lord gets here --- we're all gonna get what's coming to us --- myself included.

But you guys are about as dishonest as they come.

Mr Pot meet Mr Kettle.

I think you are booked on the downbound train along with the rest of us if it is intellectual honesty that is the key to the pearly gates.

I don't think you are delusional so I am assuming you know most of what you post is semantic drivel such as the supposed difference between embedded age and embedded history.

 

[Inan3]

So let me get this straight. In order to believe in God you must first believe in God?

Well, you got me laughing outloud on that one.

That's a stunner. You mean to tell me that CHRISTIAN scriptures state that people are stupid for not being CHRISTIAN? Didn't see that one coming.

A fool doesn't necessarily have to be stupid.

What did Jesus say of those who read parables as literal history?

Parables are not to be read as literal history, but before you go there Genesis is not a parable. Parables and allegories are obvious. You can't dub something an allegory just because it doesn't fit what you believe.

 

[Baggins]

Either that, or some people hold science up to a higher Standard.

You can't hold that what you don't understand to any standard at all.

Ya --- tell us about "fear of knowledge.

Well it appears your Christianity rests on such shoddy foundations that the obvious and verifiable truth of the age of the earth, the lack of a biblical flood, and the common descent of all life forms would blow it out of the water, so you make a fantasy world to protect yourself from dealing with that truth. that leads to a fear of engaging honestly with the evidence, hence the word games and shenanigans.

It is very strange as most of the world's Christians from the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury downwards have been able to maintain their Christianity whilst engaging with reality.

 

[Split Rock]

Either that, or some people hold science up to a higher Standard.

You have used this phrase so many times now, it has become cliche.

 

[Split Rock]

Parables are not to be read as literal history, but before you go there Genesis is not a parable. Parables and allegories are obvious. You can't dub something an allegory just because it doesn't fit what you believe.

Obvious? Yes they are:

1. Man made from dust of the earth? Check.

2. Woman made from his body part? Check.

3. A Tree of "The Knowledge of Good and Evil?" Check.

4. A talking snake? Check.

5. A flaming sword? Check.

Sounds like a parable to me!

 

[Inan3]

I'm sure this has already been answered many times, but anyway

You're getting snitty AV, it isn't our fault you can't understand simple scientific concepts.

Oh I might as well get in on this childishness too. Snitty is as snitty does. Na na na na na! Well, that really was fun.

Zircon is is ZiSiO4 it is a crystaline mineral, one particular zircon has been around the earth approximately 4.4 billion times.

Where is this information located? And how long does it take a zircon to go around the earth? and what the flip is a zircon anyway? And what does it matter in the scope of life?

 

[Inan3]

Obvious? Yes they are:

We're still playing that game. Ok...No, there not!

Allegory is a form of extended metaphor, in which objects, persons, and actions in a narrative, are equated with the meanings that lie outside the narrative itself. The underlying meaning has moral, social, religious, or political significance, and characters are often personifications of abstract ideas as charity, greed, or envy.
Thus an allegory is a story with two meanings, a LITERAL meaning and a symbolic meaning.


1. Man made from dust of the earth? Check.

So that's the literal meaning whats the symbolic or underlying meaning?

2. Woman made from his body part? Check.

So that's the literal meaning whats the symbolic or underlying meaning?

3. A Tree of "The Knowledge of Good and Evil?" Check.

So that's the literal meaning whats the symbolic or underlying meaning?

4. A talking snake? Check.

So that's the literal meaning whats the symbolic or underlying meaning?

5. A flaming sword? Check.

So that's the literal meaning whats the symbolic or underlying meaning?

Sounds like a parable to me! Not to me

I love these merry-go-rounds. They're so .... merry!

 

[thaumaturgy]

Well, you got me laughing outloud on that one.

Mind letting us in on the joke, because it sounds pretty much like what you posted earlier.

Maybe I'm missing something.

Oh, and just so ya know, I WAS a believer before I became an UNBELIEVER. How does that work in your one-way-street of gnosis?

I've spent more time in my life as a BELIEVER than as an atheist. Tell me how I can't understand the Bible or the word of God or spirituality, again.

I love that.

Unlike some posters on here who rail against evolution or "deep time" who not only haven't studied the science but are mysteriously proud of their ignorance of it, I at least have done my homework before debating religion.

 

[Baggins]

Oh I might as well get in on this childishness too. Snitty is as snitty does. Na na na na na! Well, that really was fun.

the thing is he only does if for effect when he has an audience, such as yourself, he can be reasonable, and he has shown that he can understand concepts such as these even if he rejects them for, what I would consider, silly reasons.

But when he has a audience it sort of brings out the worst in him.

Where is this information located? And how long does it take a zircon to go around the earth? and what the flip is a zircon anyway? And what does it matter in the scope of life?

[/QUOTE]

that particular information is located in many hundreds of locations across the internet. I would suggest typing "oldest zircon" into a search engine.

A zircon doesn't go around the earth it is a crystaline mineral that is found in small quantities in the rocks of the earth.

If you meant how long does it take a zircon to go around the sun; then it takes exactly the smae amount of time as anything else on the eazrth, it takes a period off time we label as one year which is by definition the amount of time it takes the earth, and everything on it including zircons, to orbit the sun.

A zircon is the chemical ZiSiO4 Zirconium sillicate, a mineral made up of Zirconium, Silicon and Oxygen. It is useful for dating because small amounts of Uranium will be included in Zircon crysltals but no lead at all can be taken up by that crystal structure. Uranium exists in isotopes that break down to lead when they decay. If you measure the amount of lead that is found in a zircon relative to the amount of Uranium you can get a pretty accurate measurement of when that crystal was formed, that is is accurate to within a few dozen million years.

Zircons are very hard and chemically inert and so they are like little clocks that tell us when they were formed. the oldest ones found so far date to 4.4 billion years old.

That is pretty irrefutable evidence as to a minimum age for the earth. You have to break the laws of physics to make a scientific case for it not being accurate, and invoke a deceptive god if you don't wish to do that.

Most creationists try to suggest that "things were different in te past", thus ignoring the evidence that shows that radioactive decay rates haven't altered in at least 2 billion years such as the Oklo natural nuclear reactor.

What does all that matter? Not a lot to me, rather a lot if you are trying to cling to YEC. But it is nice to know.

 

[thaumaturgy]

1. Man made from dust of the earth? Check.

So that's the literal meaning whats the symbolic or underlying meaning?

How 'bout the fact that the word Adam may be from the Hebrew ha adamah or "the ground" like from which he was "made"?

"the name seems to be connected with the word ha-adamah ("the ground"), in which case the value of the term would be to represent man (ratione materiæ) as earthborn(SOURCE)

2. Woman made from his body part? Check.

So that's the literal meaning whats the symbolic or underlying meaning?

As long as you don't cleave too closely to some New Testament books, it means women can be equals. They come from the rib. On the SIDE of the man. To be BESIDE the man.

I dunno.

3. A Tree of "The Knowledge of Good and Evil?" Check.

So that's the literal meaning whats the symbolic or underlying meaning?

Gosh. The fruit of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. Can you tell us what genus and species this would be?

Sounds pretty allegorical to me. Really, can you honestly not see that as an allegory? Adulthood? Learning? Having the veil removed from your eyes? Seeing things without innocence? Loss of innocence?

Any of this sound like a consistent literary theme throughout human history?

Sounds like a parable to me! Not to me

You must have a sad time at the book store. Literature can be so much more pleasurable when you read it as an adult rather than getting stuck in the Children's section.

(BTW: This is why I dislike authors who claim there is no symbolism in their fiction work. If it doesn't have some symbolism, then I feel cheated of some deeper insight.)