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Speaking in tongues.
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Where does it say that the people on the street outside the Upper Room were multilingual? Which early church father said that they were multilingual?
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Have you not realised that this is a thread about tongues?
Also, you need to read the Scripture more carefully. Paul preferred the gift of prophecy in church meetings. He highly valued the gift of tongues. He said he spoke in tongues more than them all, and he wished that they all spoke in tongues. To me, that is Paul highly valuing the gift of tongues as a private activity before God.
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When you state by implication that tongues is of the devil, you had better back up your words with good sound evidence, buddy.
You can't just sit there and make up unproved speculation and expect credibility.
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This nonsense about having to speak in tongues in order to be saved has been done to death. It cannot be proved in Scripture or by the early church fathers, so the concept is just pure rubbish.
You have got the cart before the horse.
A person becomes a Christian when they acknowledge their sinfulness and believe that Jesus died for them on the cross and then accept Him as Lord and Saviour. After they have 'confessed Christ and believed that God has raised Him from the dead' (in other words, got saved), then their spirit has been made alive and the Holy Spirit has come to indwell their spirit. The indwelling of the Spirit can only come to those who believe. They have to be believers first, before the Holy Spirit will come to them.
It is stupid nonsense to then work the process the other way around to try and show who are Christians and who are not through their use of the gift of tongues.
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Good grief! Now I have heard everything! I would love to see that proved by Scripture and by the teaching of the earliest of the church fathers!
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I believe that if the "tongues" is heard amongst many different speaking/understanding peoples, and ALL can understand it in their own dialect....it is a true sign and Gift of God....as seen in Acts2
but it is not the only gift, and I do not believe that it is in use at this time, but will be at the witness of the elect at the end of the trib...
IF a person uses the gift of translation (multilingualism) to help others (foreign speaking and hearing people) hear the gospel and get a chance to accept Christ as Messiah...then that is proof of the Holy Spirit working, breaking language barriers...(1Cor14) tongues=glossa=languages...
but if a person does not speak multi lingual tongues...(an interpreter) then it does not mean that they don't have the Spirit of God, but rather it means that the one furthering God's plan does...otherwise he would use his talents elsewhere...
it is not a must, not for most, as most of us are not multilingual...
there are many gifts of the Spirit....using multilingualism to help God, is one of those gifts....
I hope I made my position cear...
the ecstatic charismatic tongue is not a gift of God.......
in His service
c
AGAIN I SAY, PROOOOOOOOVE IT!!!!
And you can only do that through the direct teaching of Scripture or by the teaching of the earliest of the church fathers.
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Read my article. Here is the link:
http://personal-communication.net.nz/cessationist-incorrect.htm
Also, I have extensively posted on the gift of tongues in the P/C forum. You just need to do a bit of digging around to locate them.
The trouble with some people is that their minds are closed to the possibility that the gift of tongues could be for today. They will even argue against the clear teaching of Scripture in 1Cor14, but they will readily accept Paul's teaching about other matters in the same book as applying today. They will accept 1Cor13 as applying today, but not 1Cor14. I don't think that we can pick and choose between different passages of Scripture and say what does or does not apply to today's church. Closed minded people are very inconsistent - and this shows that they are selective about what they believe in God's Word. They only believe what fits in with their narrow view about how things should be.
O Consistency, thou art a jewel!!!
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When John wrote this, he was reacting against those who were teaching that Jesus didn't really come as a real human being, but as some sort of phantom. It is important to consider the context of the passages that are quoted.
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razzelflabben
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I have a friend who became demonised because some in the Pentecostal church insisted she speak in tongues. Long story short, the "gift" of tongues she recieved was through a demon.
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razzelflabben
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A word of warning since you are sooooo into people proving things. I Cor. 13 not only talks about tongues but the ceasation of them as well. Now I agree that many people read this the wrong way, but you are one into proving things in the bible, make sure you understand what you are saying yourself.
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Nadiine
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Yes, I've always known that not all tongues are sourced by God, but demonic spirits who are using the tongues as "PROOF" of Godliness.
Tongues is one of those "visual" gifts - people LOVE to see and feel validation of their salvation or closeness to God... so it's only natural that demonic spirits would easily use this visual gift for their purposes.
People are placing far too much importance on this gift - babbling people don't "PROVE" their God's child. INTERPRETORS must be present when used; how many people do we see actually interpreting all the tongues being used in the church publicallY????
FAR LESS THAN THOSE 'SPEAKING' THEM.
I'm not denying tongues exist - decent Christians I know claim they have them. Fine. But not everyone in the church has them from God; an interpretor would solve that problem quickly (if they were used properly as Paul outlines).
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razzelflabben
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I have another thread that deals with this topic. It is based on I Cor. 13 and how love is related or tied into prophecy and tongues. It seems to me that I Cor. 13 says that it is only those who are "born" as it were in love have the true gift of tongues. (my wording) It also talks about the cessation of the gifts, which appears to me to be the resurrection. Anyway, seems a bit off topic for this thread. Point was I wanted to offer evidence and seems to be I did and you confirmed, thanks
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Although each person spoke in his own language; which is not a miracle. Each person heared in their own language; which is a miracle. The word "tongue" can also be translated as "language." Again I would like to remind you that Mark 16:9-20 was written after the passing of the disciples. Paul was a well educated man, who spoke in different languages. Paul said he would like for us to have the gift of speaking in languages. "More than one language."
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wow I think you're really taking this out of context
if you're right, why do we still have prophesies and knowledge?
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razzelflabben
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It identified itself as such and was cast out as such and afterwards and sense, the woman has lived a life of victory, as evidenced through the fruits of the spirit. Add to this her personal testimony and it is pretty hard to view it as fake though I guess anyone could, that's the problem with words that have lost their meaning, victory no longer means victory, love no longer is identifible, the fruits are no longer identifiable, it all boils down to an emotional response rather than evidence that can be viewed. But I digress. The above is what you asked for.
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razzelflabben
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8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.wow I think you're really taking this out of context
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
On the other thread we are talking about when and what this means, the general consenses is second coming though I am leaning toward resurrection.
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Oki thanks for the reply
I guess in some cases it's indeed a demon. But in my experience there were the fruits of the Spirit, and it has helped me in my relationship with God...wasn't just an 'emotional response'. There were good results. I disagree with you that victory, love, and 'fruits of the Spirit' are no longer identifiable.
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