Speaking in tongues.

[Nadiine]

I have a lot to say, but everyone does not hear the same. Although some hear my words, others are listening. To some people I am a blasphemer, but to others Im speaking the truth. I wrote that article to emphasize that truth; That the miracle was in the hearing.

yes, Jesus told us that His sheep don't follow the voice of the stranger, they never will either.

 

[Nadiine]

From Khouse.org:
Among the disputed passages are the final verses of the Gospel of Mark (16:9-20). (Look in your own Bible: you are likely to find an annotation that these were "added later.")
The insistence that Mark's Gospel ends at 16:8 leaves the women afraid and fails to record the resurrection, Christ's final instructions, and the Ascension. It is understandable why these verses are an embarrassment to the Gnostics, and why Westcott and Hort would advocate their exclusion, and insist that they were "added later."
However, it seems that Irenaeus in 150 A.D., and also Hypolytus in the 2nd century, each quote from these disputed verses, so the documentary evidence is that they were deleted later in the Alexandrian texts, not added subsequently.)
But there is even more astonishing evidence for their original inclusion that is also profoundly instructive for broader reasons.

 

[Nadiine]

This is true, but you have to believe the Bible for what it says. It say they were speaking other languages and this shows people were amazed as they were not speaking their native language. This was already shown.

Now is it always a language known to men? Well, no, and the Bible is also clear on that. It can be the language of man, God or angels, and when speaking in tongues for personal edification, no one knows what they're speaking about.

1 Corinthians 14:2 : For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

And we can't forget that there were no interpretors present - which Paul says must be used in public for edification.

Those around them understood them in their own native tongue without any interpretation - I don't see as they're the same tongues at all (Acts 2 compared to 1 Cor. 12-14).

 

[GuardianShua]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BustedFlat
From Khouse.org:

Among the disputed passages are the final verses of the Gospel of Mark (16:9-20). (Look in your own Bible: you are likely to find an annotation that these were "added later.")
The insistence that Mark's Gospel ends at 16:8 leaves the women afraid and fails to record the resurrection, Christ's final instructions, and the Ascension. It is understandable why these verses are an embarrassment to the Gnostics, and why Westcott and Hort would advocate their exclusion, and insist that they were "added later."
However, it seems that Irenaeus in 150 A.D., and also Hypolytus in the 2nd century, each quote from these disputed verses, so the documentary evidence is that they were deleted later in the Alexandrian texts, not added subsequently.)
But there is even more astonishing evidence for their original inclusion that is also profoundly instructive for broader reasons.

So you think that is Ok to put the Lord our God to the test.

Mark 16:16. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18. they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
Matthew 7:21. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23. Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

 

[AllTalkNoAction]

1Co 13:1
(1) Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I have become as sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal.

Thanks for proving my point, you offer not one single scripture that refers to "the language of God", it's just a wierd idea that someone on drugs made up.

it says tongues plural.
They thought the speakers were drunk at Pentecost cos they were all speaking at the same time, like drunk people who mutter and shout, regardles of what anyone else says. Different disciples were speaking different languages, if you have any experience of christians today you will know the same is true now. In fact, get to a meeting that operates tongues as the bible says and you will hear 2 or 3 different tongues, in addition to what's said in English.

 

[TheLivingWater]

Why are you wondering ??? is it not clear to you ?


Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Shadabidai tubulupai lalalai

 

[Nadiine]

Sadly, people focus on THIS gift as if it's all important - Paul elevated PROPHECY as a better gift to seek.

To me, elevating this one shows a problem from the start. Imo, people aren't even using the gifts they do have to seek tongues or other gifts.

I place very little significance on this gift and I certainly find no reason to divide over it - division should only occur in essential doctrines unto salvation.

 

[zeke37]

Sadly, people focus on THIS gift as if it's all important - Paul elevated PROPHECY as a better gift to seek.

the ecstatic charismatic tongue is not a Gift from God, nor is it God speaking, nor is it some inner-dwelling of the Spirit speaking....

it is simply the speakers own non-words, not a gift...

and it was NEVER practised as the charismatic church does....

1Cor14 is about multilingual people and God using them to further the Gospel message to foreign speaking people, so that they could bring the Saving Message of Jesus to the world....which is why Paul was chosen to be the vessel to the gentiles....he was incredibly multilingual....he spoke many different tongues(Languages)

To me, elevating this one shows a problem from the start. Imo, people aren't even using the gifts they do have to seek tongues or other gifts.

Tongues =languages, as stated above, so do not believe that the charismatic tongue is an actual Gift of God....too many Christians believe that the ecstatic utterances are real, but not for everyone.....

it ain't real at all folks....give no quarter...

I place very little significance on this gift and I certainly find no reason to divide over it - division should only occur in essential doctrines unto salvation.

it is not a gift, and it really gives power to the one supposedly discerning the message.....if only one person seemingly understands the mutterings...and NOT the whole church, then that is a recipe for disaster....

and since we know that demons exist, I would be extremely weary about this practise...we are warned to test the spirits, so there is obviously good reason to give us this warning....

we are on the cusp of the end times....the devil has many tricks, this being among his biggest.

in His service
c

 

[GuardianShua]

I have had it said to me, that because I don't speak in tongues, that I must not be one of his sheep. And that because I don't have healing powers, I can't be one of his.

 

[BustedFlat]

So you think that is Ok to put the Lord our God to the test.

There is only one passage I know of that The Lord challenges us to test Him.

Mal 3:10 Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,"
Says the LORD of hosts,
"If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
And pour out for you such blessing
That there will not be room enough to receive it.

Other than this I do not think it wise to test Him. I do however suggest that you test each passage with the whole counsel of God to see if it fits with what the Holy Spirit affirmed elsewhere:

Joh 3:35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.
Joh 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Act 28:3 But when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks and laid them on the fire, a viper came out because of the heat, and fastened on his hand.
Act 28:4 So when the natives saw the creature hanging from his hand, they said to one another, "No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he has escaped the sea, yet justice does not allow to live."
Act 28:5 But he shook off the creature into the fire and suffered no harm.

I have had it said to me, that because I don't speak in tongues, that I must not be one of his sheep. And that because I don't have healing powers, I can't be one of his.

1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
1Co 12:8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
1Co 12:9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same[2] Spirit,
1Co 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Co 12:11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

 

[GuardianShua]

There is only one passage I know of that The Lord challenges us to test Him.

Mal 3:10 Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,"
Says the LORD of hosts,
"If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
And pour out for you such blessing
That there will not be room enough to receive it.

Other than this I do not think it wise to test Him. I do however suggest that you test each passage with the whole counsel of God to see if it fits with what the Holy Spirit affirmed elsewhere:

Joh 3:35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.
Joh 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Act 28:3 But when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks and laid them on the fire, a viper came out because of the heat, and fastened on his hand.
Act 28:4 So when the natives saw the creature hanging from his hand, they said to one another, "No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he has escaped the sea, yet justice does not allow to live."
Act 28:5 But he shook off the creature into the fire and suffered no harm.

1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
1Co 12:8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
1Co 12:9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same[2] Spirit,
1Co 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Co 12:11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

I know that there are different gifts, but Im bringing up what was said to me about tongues and healings. Gifts are from God, but what makes a Christian, is how we live our lives according to His Commandment and precepts, conceived by Him.

 

[AllTalkNoAction]

I have had it said to me, that because I don't speak in tongues, that I must not be one of his sheep. And that because I don't have healing powers, I can't be one of his.

Consider these scriptures:-
ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (Romans 8:9)

So, if you have not actually received the Spirit to indwell you, you are not yet "in Christ", a "Christian" in the true sense.

Now, if you read the passages relating to trhe receiving of the Spirit, mostly in Acts (2:4, 33; 8:12-18, 10:44-46, 19:5-6) but backed up by Romans 8:15-16, Gal.4:6, John 3:8, 14:17-20, you will see that it was known precisely when people received the Spirit - God bare independat witness with His sign of speaking in tongues.

No-one ever sugggested that maybe these tongue-speakers had received the Spirit sometime before but had just "received tongues" as some teach today.

 

[BustedFlat]

I know that there are different gifts, but Im bringing up what was said to me about tongues and healings. Gifts are from God, but what makes a Christian, is how we live our lives according to His Commandment and precepts, conceived by Him.

My point was to point out that no one receives all the gifts and we receive the gifts God needs us to have when He needs us to have them, for as long as He needs us to have them.

 

[zeke37]

Consider these scriptures:-
ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (Romans 8:9)

So, if you have not actually received the Spirit to indwell you, you are not yet "in Christ", a "Christian" in the true sense.

Now, if you read the passages relating to trhe receiving of the Spirit, mostly in Acts (2:4, 33; 8:12-18, 10:44-46, 19:5-6) but backed up by Romans 8:15-16, Gal.4:6, John 3:8, 14:17-20, you will see that it was known precisely when people received the Spirit - God bare independat witness with His sign of speaking in tongues.

No-one ever sugggested that maybe these tongue-speakers had received the Spirit sometime before but had just "received tongues" as some teach today.

tongues=languages....and the proof that it was God speaking through them was that everyone heard it in their own dialect...as fully described in acts 2...

the charismatic tongue does not do this and is not a gift of God...the whole doctrine is based on a misinterpretation of 1Cor14...

Paul simply was speaking of preaching in one language, and it being interpreted by a multilingual person into another language so that foreigners could receive the Good News...the whole point of Paul's Commission...

 

[GuardianShua]

AllTalkNoAction, BustedFlat and Zeke37 those are good answers. I agree.

 

[AllTalkNoAction]

AllTalkNoAction, BustedFlat and Zeke37 those are good answers. I agree.

So you accept that when people receive God's Spirit they immediately speak in tongues?

 

[GuardianShua]

Deleted.

 

[zeke37]

So you accept that when people receive God's Spirit they immediately speak in tongues?

I believe that if the "tongues" is heard amongst many different speaking/understanding peoples, and ALL can understand it in their own dialect....it is a true sign and Gift of God....as seen in Acts2

but it is not the only gift, and I do not believe that it is in use at this time, but will be at the witness of the elect at the end of the trib...

IF a person uses the gift of translation (multilingualism) to help others (foreign speaking and hearing people) hear the gospel and get a chance to accept Christ as Messiah...then that is proof of the Holy Spirit working, breaking language barriers...(1Cor14) tongues=glossa=languages...

but if a person does not speak multi lingual tongues...(an interpreter) then it does not mean that they don't have the Spirit of God, but rather it means that the one furthering God's plan does...otherwise he would use his talents elsewhere...

it is not a must, not for most, as most of us are not multilingual...

there are many gifts of the Spirit....using multilingualism to help God, is one of those gifts....

I hope I made my position cear...

the ecstatic charismatic tongue is not a gift of God.......

in His service
c

 

[AllTalkNoAction]

I believe that if the "tongues" is heard amongst many different speaking/understanding peoples, and ALL can understand it in their own dialect....it is a true sign and Gift of God....as seen in Acts2

What if those criteria aren't fulfilled, such as in Acts 10:44-18 & Acts 19:1-6?

but it is not the only gift, and I do not believe that it is in use at this time, but will be at the witness of the elect at the end of the trib...

So God has selectively done away with some gifts?
Which ones do we still have, according to your belief?

IF a person uses the gift of translation (multilingualism)

What bible do you read ?

I never read that!
The Holy Spirit can and does give interpretation of what is said in gifts of tongues in our meetings.
But the people giving that aren't translating, they didn't understand what it said in tongues.

If a bi-lingual person translates a language they understand that's no miracle, no "gift of the Holy Spirit".

to help others (foreign speaking and hearing people) hear the gospel and get a chance to accept Christ as Messiah...then that is proof of the Holy Spirit working, breaking language barriers...(1Cor14) tongues=glossa=languages...

The gospel message went to all nations that the bi-lingual jews in jerusalem at pentecost came from without anyone having to be given any miraculous abilities. They just took it when they went back home!

Your doctrine that tongues was for preaching the gospel is completely false. It's the Holy Spirit leading people in prayer according to God's perfect will for them.

1Co:14:2: For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God

I hope I made my position cear...

You are a natural man, twisting and ignoring scripture because you don't like the idea that you havn't actually received the new life.

the ecstatic charismatic tongue is not a gift of God.......
in His service
c

I dunno what you mean "ecstatic", another non-biblical confusion you are introducing.
The "gospel" that you can receive God's Spirit and not speak in tongues, unlike ALL Jesus disciples, Jew and Gentile, is definately not of God.

You are certainly not "in His service" by promoting it.

 

[stone]

Acts 2:5. Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6. When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7. Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8. Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9. Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10. Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11. (both Jews and converts to Judaism Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" 12. Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, "What does this mean?" /// The miracle was not in the speaking, but in the hearing; as stated in this scripture.

a clue hear is that each of the folks from other countries heard them all speak at the same time in their own language, not one after the other, but all at the same time.

so, to test those that claim to speak in tongue's, have handy a few that speak different languages, and when this person speaks in toungue's, each of them should hear in their own tongue.