What are the Holes in Evolution?

[Baggins]

AHA!! on the final insects in the lineage no longer looking like flies!

And yet they would still be modified flies, and to a biologist this would be obvious in their morphology and DNA. You are a modified monkey, you may think you look entirely different to a monkey, but to an intelligent alien you would look almost identical.


Hold on to that idea and you will have grasped something that most creationists never seem to grasp.

 

[AV1611VET]

It has been argued that there are holes in the theory of evolution. I, and others, would like to hear what these holes are?

Here are four holes that can't be plugged.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Here are four holes that can't be plugged.

You don't even believe point 1 yourself (you're not a YEC, are you?) and unless you give us an objective reason to believe what the Bible says, the rest of your points are moot.

 

[AV1611VET]

...and unless you give us an objective reason to believe what the Bible says, the rest of your points are moot.

For what, about the 10[sup]th[/sup] time?

Try objective prophecy.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

For what, about the 10[sup]th[/sup] time?

Try objective prophecy.

I have never seen a fulfilled prophecy except the self-fulfilling ones.

 

[FishFace]

Here are four holes that can't be plugged.

My plug is labeled with "The Bible is wrong."

Sorted.

 

[FishFace]

For what, about the 10[sup]th[/sup] time?

Try objective prophecy.

By your own methods, several people on this forum are verified infallible. I'm one of them!

 

[Bakin]

One problem with evolution is that the one sentient species developed a series of delusional wordviews which may ultimately lead to that species being wiped out (selected against).

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Here are four holes that can't be plugged.

They are only holes if one assumes the Bible is literally true. Since there is no justification for such an assumption, the holes do not exist.

I challange you, AV1611VET, to justify your implicit claim that the Bible is literally true.

 

[Inan3]

And yet they would still be modified flies, and to a biologist this would be obvious in their morphology and DNA. You are a modified monkey, you may think you look entirely different to a monkey, but to an intelligent alien you would look almost identical.


Hold on to that idea and you will have grasped something that most creationists never seem to grasp.

And to a C/C any modification would be the outcome of the original divine design. But still the orginal was created a fly! And if it had any modifications it would still be a fly or extinct, that is, an extinct fly because it died off as each modification caused it to depreciate further. I am NOT a modified monkey. I am from Adam who was created in the likeness and image of God. In one day he was created a man by God and the monkeys were also, created monkeys. Not only DO I look differently than a monkey, I am different than a monkey. Well, if there were such things as intelligent aliens (you surprise me, Baggins) then the only way I would look like a monkey to "it" is if their vision were severely impaired!

 

[Inan3]

My plug is labeled with "The Bible is wrong."

Sorted.

Well then you should get another "plug" labeled correctly.

 

[TheOutsider]

I am NOT a modified monkey. I am from Adam who was created in the likeness and image of God. In one day he was created a man by God and the monkeys were also, created monkeys. Not only DO I look differently than a monkey, I am different than a monkey. Well, if there were such things as intelligent aliens (you surprise me, Baggins) then the only way I would look like a monkey to "it" is if their vision were severely impaired!

We are closer to apes than any other animal. There are more similarities than differences. Our genomes match up more than 90%. Why do you believe that it is an insult to be related to gorillas and chimps?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Well then you should get another "plug" labeled correctly.

The holes only exist under the assumption that the Bible is true. The plug, therefore, is that the Bible is wrong.
The question then becomes: is the Bible true, and if so, why?

 

[Inan3]

We are closer to apes than any other animal. There are more similarities than differences. Our genomes match up more than 90%. Why do you believe that it is an insult to be related to gorillas and chimps?

Because I am like God not apes. We were created in God's image to become the sons of God. Not angels, not animals but sons of the living God. We are like God.

 

[TheOutsider]

Because I am like God not apes. We were created in God's image to become the sons of God. Not angels, not animals but sons of the living God. We are like God.

Two things I would like you to define:
1) Animal
2) Ape

I would also like you to explain why humans do not fall in either category. Something other than "The Bible says so," please.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Because I am like God not apes. We were created in God's image to become the sons of God. Not angels, not animals but sons of the living God. We are like God.

So it's ego, then?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Two things I would like you to define:
1) Animal
2) Ape

I would also like you to explain why humans do not fall in either category. Something other than "The Bible says so," please.

I second this request.

 

[TheOutsider]

I second this request.

I've split if off into another thread. I doubt Inan3 will try to answer it anyways.

http://foru.ms/t6144429-definition-of-ape.html#post39061237

 

[Inan3]

I've split if off into another thread. I doubt Inan3 will try to answer it anyways.

http://foru.ms/t6144429-definition-of-ape.html#post39061237

You know what they say pout and doubt and go with out BUT in this case because you are special TO I will meet you over there! I had already started answering it anyway but then I got some kind of glitch and had to shut down and come back up again, only to return to this doubting post. tisk tisk tisk

 

[FishFace]

And to a C/C any modification would be the outcome of the original divine design. But still the orginal was created a fly! And if it had any modifications it would still be a fly or extinct, that is, an extinct fly because it died off as each modification caused it to depreciate further. I am NOT a modified monkey. I am from Adam who was created in the likeness and image of God.

Apparently, God looks like a monkey. Have a look at the taxonomy of a human:

1. Homo - Human
2. Hominidiae - Great apes
3. Hominoidea - Apes
4. Catarrhini - Old World Monkeys
5. Haplorrhini - Simians
6. Primates
7. Eutheria - Placental mammals
8. Theria - Mammals bearing live young
9. Mammalia - Mammals
10. Amniotes
11. Tetrapods - Four-legged animals
12. Vertebrates
13. Chordates
14. Animals
15. Eukaryotes

You are claiming that a fly will always be a fly. Yes, this is true. And a human will always be a human - but that human will also always be an ape, a simian, a primate, a placental mammal, a livebearer, a mammal, an amniote, a tetrapod, a vertebrate, a chordate, an animal and a eukaryote.

The fly never stops being a fly, even if it eventually looks completely different. That's how evolution and taxonomy works.

In one day he was created a man by God and the monkeys were also, created monkeys. Not only DO I look differently than a monkey, I am different than a monkey.

You are so similar to a monkey that you could have a blood transfusion with one. Well, a chimp, anyway. You are so similar that you can teach it a portion of your language. You both have a social structure, you both use tools, you are both intelligent.
You are focusing on the differences, when those differences pale into insignificance if you consider the similarities.

Well, if there were such things as intelligent aliens (you surprise me, Baggins) then the only way I would look like a monkey to "it" is if their vision were severely impaired!

If you sat next to a chimp, and you sat facing an alsatian and a chihuahua, which looks most similar? You and the chimp.

Yet you accept that the the dogs are the same species! You say a fly will always be a fly, does that mean that you accept that these chaps are related:

They look completely different! That is, if you concentrate on the differences. Of course, they both have wings, they both have a chitinous exoskeleton, they both have six legs... But chimps and humans share much more.

And of course, if you want to claim chimps are not related to humans, you ignore swathes of incontrovertible genetic evidence such as human chromosome 2, which can only be explained by common ancestry.