Sufficiency of Scripture?

[Alphadux]

music which glorifies god

But it's the style I'm struggling with. Rock in particular.

 

[neunown]

But it's the style I'm struggling with. Rock in particular.

harsh music is much like a harsh voice; how does it make you feel?

 

[Alphadux]

harsh music is much like a harsh voice; how does it make you feel?

I enjoy it.

 

[artybloke]

But we can't doubt. Paul says that if we doubt then we are sinning because "whatever is not of faith is sin".

But the opposite of faith is not doubt, it's certainty. Without the possibility of being wrong, there is no need for faith. We can't prove anything to do with God; but we stumble on along the road anyway, with God's help, and sometimes we find it easy and sometimes we find it hard.

People who tell you that you can't doubt are probably the most fearful of all; and frankly, that kind of certainty is also pretty dangerous. It's the same kind of certainty you find in Al Quaeda.

And it's as much about humility as about anything else; about realising our own limits. I realise that for somebody like yourself, uncertainty is a real difficulty, as it is for anyone with OCD or Asperger's symptoms; but sometimes there just isn't a single answer possible in this life.

It's the same with the music you like. Music glorifies God because it's music, and it can be all kinds of music too. A lot of the anti-rock people in the '60's were really opposed to its African rhytms, there was an edge of racism to it. So don't be put off liking something because some people don't like it.

I'm a jazz fan myself - from be-bop to quite fierce free jazz - and I'm not put off by some people thinking it's just noise.

Take heart, and step out in faith. The Bible doesn't say anything about rock music, any more than it says anything about Baroque music, or Gregorian chant, or Irish dance music. We have absolutely no idea how ancient music sounded, and it would probably sound very odd to our ears. But we know they had it, and they loved to dance.

 

[neunown]

I enjoy it.

what precisely is the stuggle that you mentioned then?

 

[sunlover1]

I wasn't saying that anyone's conscience was necessarily seared. Very godly people have thought differently on different issues. Charles Spurgeon smoked cigars, yet other people of his day thought it to be sinful. Luther liked his beer. Some Christians today don't like cards others find nothing wrong with it. Actions are either sinful or they're not. They can't be both.

Hi Alphadux,
This is why we're told in ?Timothy I believe, to watch
what we hear.
Our conscience does indeed determine what is sin for
us and what isnt, when it comes to these sort of
ambiguous things.
If it's sin for you, then don't partake.
I can play cards and I can drink alcohol, but
if my brother who has a weak conscience, is offended,
then I know I better honor him, as I will answer to
God.

Actually It does depend upon the conscience of the individual. Not its being sinful or not, but whether the individual perceives it to be so. But in regards to an action being sinful or not; God knows.

Amen.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Hi Alphadux,
This is why we're told in ?Timothy I believe, to watch
what we hear.
Our conscience does indeed determine what is sin for
us and what isnt, when it comes to these sort of
ambiguous things.
If it's sin for you, then don't partake.
I can play cards and I can drink alcohol, but
if my brother who has a weak conscience, is offended,
then I know I better honor him, as I will answer to
God.


Amen.

Certainly a noble principle, but then the weakest brother sets the agenda.

Not in my town!

 

[Alphadux]

what precisely is the stuggle that you mentioned then?

Some say it's sinful. There's claims that the beat causes sexual stimulation in people. I've tried to find out if it's true, but I'm still not sure. Since I'm not sure, I doubt. Since I doubt, my conscience bothers me. And since my conscience bothers me, I can't listen to it.

 

[Alphadux]

Hi Alphadux,
This is why we're told in ?Timothy I believe, to watch
what we hear.
Our conscience does indeed determine what is sin for
us and what isnt, when it comes to these sort of
ambiguous things.
If it's sin for you, then don't partake.
I can play cards and I can drink alcohol, but
if my brother who has a weak conscience, is offended,
then I know I better honor him, as I will answer to
God.


Amen.

But the only reason something is sinful for some people is because they're not doing it in faith. Playing cards is either sinful or it's not, regardless of what people feel. It's whether or not they're doing it in faith which makes the difference.

 

[sunlover1]

Certainly a noble principle, but then the weakest brother sets the agenda.

Not in my town!

Hi Steve.

I was speaking of this principle:

9 But take heed lest by any means this libertyc of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. 10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldenedd to eat those things which are offered to idols;
11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend. ​

http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=6076743#_ftn3c liberty: or, power

d emboldened: Gr. edified

I'm guessing you're talking about your rights?

But it does call it "sinning against your brother" and
therefore sinning 'against Christ'.

Wow!
Interesting passage,

thanks,
sunlover



http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=6076743#_ftnref3

 

[neunown]

Some say it's sinful. There's claims that the beat causes sexual stimulation in people.

so you believe sexual stimulation to be sinful?

 

[Alphadux]

so you believe sexual stimulation to be sinful?

No, but if it stimulates someone then the likely result will be lust. I'm speaking outside of marriage.

 

[neunown]

No, but if it stimulates someone then the likely result will be lust. I'm speaking outside of marriage.

please define 'lust' in the context of your usage; is there a difference between lust and sexual stimulation?

 

[Alphadux]

please define 'lust' in the context of your usage; is there a difference between lust and sexual stimulation?

I guess the two are pretty similar. The claim is that the anapestic beat arouses people. And if someones aroused, well...you know what happens. Thoughts fill your head and so forth...

 

[neunown]

The claim is that the anapestic beat arouses people.

what is this claim based on?

 

[Alphadux]

what is this claim based on?

Well, they probably base it on some studies. How reliable these studies are I don't know. They also use quotes from rock stars like Frank Zappa who said, "rock music is sex. It matches the body's rythm".

 

[neunown]

Well, they probably base it on some studies. How reliable these studies are I don't know. They also use quotes from rock stars like Frank Zappa who said, "rock music is sex. It matches the body's rythm".

do you 'personally' see a valid basis to any of these arguments? despite whether others claim to or not?

 

[Alphadux]

do you 'personally' see a valid basis to any of these arguments? despite whether others claim to or not?

I don't know. I'm just so frusturated with this. I want to listen to music but I don't feel right about it. I wonder if it's really the Spirit and I'm trying to justify my sin.

 

[neunown]

I wonder if it's really the Spirit and I'm trying to justify my sin.

why? how are you sinning? what sin are you referring to? i dont mean to pry; you neednt answer if its too personal

 

[Alphadux]

why? how are you sinning? what sin are you referring to? i dont mean to pry; you neednt answer if its too personal

Here's how it goes. I'm afraid that rock music is sinful. I like to listen to it and I've been asking the Lord to show me what's right. I still feel guilty about it though. So I wonder if the guilt is from Him and this whole time I'm trying to justify my sin of listening to it.