And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness

[MrJim]

Ephesians 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. 3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth) 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Thoughts?

 

[rebel_conservative]

I think that means to tell people that they are sinning, not to tolerate it.

 

[faithmouse]

That probably means I should turn off my computer.

 

[Lisa0315]

hmm...I think we need to do a study of that lest we become people who cross the street rather than be seen in the company of sinners.

Naturally, I AGREE with the Scripture, but I am wondering how do we do that without being Pharissees.

Lisa

 

[Hentenza]

Hey Jim,

Verse 1 tells you. Be a follower of God. In order to follow God you must walk in the Spirit. The fruits of the Spirit are evident but those not from the spirit must be brought to the light and exposed. We are not to tolerate unfruitful things and instead exposed them for what they are.

In other words, kick some evil butt.

 

[Annabel Lee]

The hard part is identifying evil. It's not always so clear.

 

[Hentenza]

The hard part is identifying evil. It's not always so clear.

Ah! But verses 3-6 tell you what not to "partner" with.

 

[Lisa0315]

Yes, evil is relative. There are some who think athiests are evil. I think of them as potential brothers and sisters. I find the wolves in sheep's clothing to be the ones who are truly evil. Those who profess Christ but act like Satan. I think abortion is evil, but I have sympathy for the mothers in some cases. I think the abortionists and lobbying groups are evil. I think homosexuality is evil, but I have sympathy for GLBT's because I feel that they are deceived and worse they receive such a mixed message from Christians regarding their lifestyle.

See what I am saying? So, do we cut off all contact with atheists, homosexuals and women who have had abortions? I don't think so. I think this Scripture talks about those who are gossipy, instigators, liars, and many other things. We are supposed to reach out to sinners but not congregate with those who not only sin but do it with glee and malice. Does that make sense?

Lisa

 

[Nicki4Christ]

We are to reprove 'expose' these works not by going around condemning the people who do them but simply by being light.

This shines a light on dark deeds ,so that they might be encouraged to change.

1 Thessalonians 5:4-5--"Ye, brethren, are not in darkness.... Ye are all sons of light." Since God is light and He gave birth to us, we too become light.

Thanks MrJim for this.. It helps me to take a closer look at myself. Are my actions in light? I know I need to work on this daily.

 

[Annabel Lee]

Ah! But verses 3-6 tell you what not to "partner" with.

3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Okay, here is 3-6. But again, it's difficult to tell by outward labels or signs. Those who appear righteous and holy, may in fact be a smug, vainglorious false followers of Christ.
Take for example the Parable of the Good Samaritan.
Just who is our neighbor?

 

[rebel_conservative]

Yes, evil is relative. There are some who think athiests are evil. I think of them as potential brothers and sisters. I find the wolves in sheep's clothing to be the ones who are truly evil. Those who profess Christ but act like Satan. I think abortion is evil, but I have sympathy for the mothers in some cases. I think the abortionists and lobbying groups are evil. I think homosexuality is evil, but I have sympathy for GLBT's because I feel that they are deceived and worse they receive such a mixed message from Christians regarding their lifestyle.

See what I am saying? So, do we cut off all contact with atheists, homosexuals and women who have had abortions? I don't think so. I think this Scripture talks about those who are gossipy, instigators, liars, and many other things. We are supposed to reach out to sinners but not congregate with those who not only sin but do it with glee and malice. Does that make sense?

Lisa

you got it exactly

if I have a penny for every time I got the message "you must spread some reputation around before you give it to lisa0315 again" I would be rich

it doesn't mean don't associate with 'evil' people, it means that you should reprove them, tell them the error of their ways, don't let their behaviour slide. this is consistent with Jesus's own behaviour of meeting with outcasts etc and urging people to sin no more.

 

[Hentenza]

3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Okay, here is 3-6. But again, it's difficult to tell by outward labels or signs. Those who appear righteous and holy, may in fact be a smug, vainglorious false followers of Christ.
Take for example the Parable of the Good Samaritan.
Just who is our neighbor?

Hey Annabel,

Yes, the parable of a good Samaritan is a good example of people that do not display good fruit. There are a few verses thought out the scriptures that do give us an idea of what to look for. An examples would be Matthew 7 and Luke 6 [ A tree and it's fruit].
There are others but I can't remember them right now.
However, you are correct is saying that some will appear as something that they are not so we always have to be in the look out for those wolfs in sheep clothing.

 

[Hentenza]

it doesn't mean don't associate with 'evil' people, it means that you should reprove them, tell them the error of their ways, don't let their behaviour slide. this is consistent with Jesus's own behaviour of meeting with outcasts etc and urging people to sin no more.

Absolutely Rebel. Jesus was blamed for eating with sinners.

 

[MrJim]

I Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person

Here's a case where ya wouldn't eat nor fellowship with a brother or sister...

 

[Annabel Lee]

Hey Annabel,

Yes, the parable of a good Samaritan is a good example of people that do not display good fruit. There are a few verses thought out the scriptures that do give us an idea of what to look for. An examples would be Matthew 7 and Luke 6 [ A tree and it's fruit].
There are others but I can't remember them right now.
However, you are correct is saying that some will appear as something that they are not so we always have to be in the look out for those wolfs in sheep clothing.

I'm normally not on the lookout for wolves in sheep clothing, but I do notice people (Christian or otherwise) that love their neighbor.
It's not hard, since they seem like bright lights in this generally dark Earth of ours.

37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, `Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 `And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 `When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 "The King will answer and say to them, `Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
--Matthew 37-40

So yeah, I like nice people. They give hope and inspiration to the rest of us.

 

[MrJim]

I find this a troubling passage, for it addresses much of what goes on around these forums and the church in America.

The word "fellowshipped" is tossed around too easily. Are we to fellowship with militant homosexuals and abortionists, calling themselves as Christian? The term has come to mean "polite tolerance".

Consider that the passage says that we are to be apart ("do not partake with", "have no fellowship"). This is in context of those naming themselves as brothers and sisters. This then further makes sense when examining Jesus' dealings with the religious~pharisees & sadducees. Now the liberals will label conservatives as "pharisees", yet they can be as guilty of it as we can be. It doesn't say that those brothers violating aren't Christians, though the whole wrath of God/children of disobedience seems to come into play here.

So when one calls themselves Christian but are actively involved in homosexuality~having a "partner", then they are engaged in fornication~verse 3. This applies to "straights" too, and this can steer in the issue of divorce pretty easily, another "hot" topic.

Abortion is viewed as murder amongst conservatives, that can put under "uncleaness" also in verse 3.

But these are all easy & obvious things.

NOW THE REAL REASON FOR POSTING THIS PASSAGE

http://foru.ms/t6073443-best-movies-ever.html

http://foru.ms/t6054485-worst-movies-ever.html

I've been pondering over this stuff~hey one of those threads is mine~about how much we are fellowshipping with those works of darkness in our "entertainment & recreation".

...let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. KJV

4 Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. ESV

We have the same entertainments as the lost heathen, we are supposed to be His chosen, yet we can hardly be separated from everyone else other than "religious services".

We've become a domesticated slave to the culture, excusing it because "everyone else is doing it", and somehow I think we are missing the boat.

Not sure why those two threads have struck me this way. TV thread wouldn't really sink in I guess since I don't watch anymore, but the movie thing has me wondering about this fellowshipping business. It's easy to point at the homosexual and abortionists, not so easy to examine myself.

 

[Lisa0315]

Wonderful post, MrJim. Dont you ever leave us again!

This goes along with my thread about Membership Guidelines. Remember?

I wanted to know what kinds of things we can do here at 4U to be that light. Can we start a list here?

Like for example, let's say that we are not to fellowship with these brothers and sisters, but rather only teach truth to them. Does that mean that we do not participate in games with them, or light banter, or put them on ignore? So, we understand the Scripture, but how do we apply it?

Example: I am currently participapting in WWMC in regards to PeaceLover's aka David's Sweetheart's engagement. We didn't allow her to be a member here although I really wanted her here because I felt that by our influence and friendship, we could help settle her down. Instead, she has found a place in WWMC and some of their advice to her is not exactly Scriptural.

So, now that DS has self-identified as Liberal, do I not fellowship with her? I don't think that is quite right.

So, how do we apply this Scripture to our lives and especially here?

Lisa

 

[MrJim]

Wonderful post, MrJim. Dont you ever leave us again!

This goes along with my thread about Membership Guidelines. Remember?

I wanted to know what kinds of things we can do here at 4U to be that light. Can we start a list here?

Like for example, let's say that we are not to fellowship with these brothers and sisters, but rather only teach truth to them. Does that mean that we do not participate in games with them, or light banter, or put them on ignore? So, we understand the Scripture, but how do we apply it?

Example: I am currently participapting in WWMC in regards to PeaceLover's aka David's Sweetheart's engagement. We didn't allow her to be a member here although I really wanted her here because I felt that by our influence and friendship, we could help settle her down. Instead, she has found a place in WWMC and some of their advice to her is not exactly Scriptural.

So, now that DS has self-identified as Liberal, do I not fellowship with her? I don't think that is quite right.

So, how do we apply this Scripture to our lives and especially here?

Lisa

I know not this one you speak of.

There are those there that are defiant against God's word in defending their homosexuality and abortion beliefs. If they call themselves Christians then I cannot fellowship with them.

Fellowship is more than casual conversation and lending the neighbor a cup of sugar...

BUT AGAIN~I have beam in my own eye to deal with, recall the reason for the post again. The conservative church has great need to examine itself ~ I suspect this is maybe some of what JimfromOhio is getting at.

 

[Lisa0315]

I know not this one you speak of.

There are those there that are defiant against God's word in defending their homosexuality and abortion beliefs. If they call themselves Christians then I cannot fellowship with them.

Fellowship is more than casual conversation and lending the neighbor a cup of sugar...

BUT AGAIN~I have beam in my own eye to deal with, recall the reason for the post again. The conservative church has great need to examine itself ~ I suspect this is maybe some of what JimfromOhio is getting at.

I agree! So, how do we become the light here, Jim? How do we fix "us"?

Lisa

 

[drstevej]

I'm normally not on the lookout for wolves in sheep clothing, but I do notice people (Christian or otherwise) that love their neighbor.
It's not hard, since they seem like bright lights in this generally dark Earth of ours.

37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, `Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 `And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 `When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 "The King will answer and say to them, `Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
--Matthew 37-40

So yeah, I like nice people. They give hope and inspiration to the rest of us.

Annabel, I am glad you are posting here. In addition to wolves in sheep's clothing beware kitties that have pentagram stigmata.

You friend,
drstevej