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There is no Hell!

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GuardianShua

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Don't be so lazy! It's easy to find.
I'm not the one who's being lazy. You made the claim that King James was a Mason, but have offered no proof to back up your claim. So your claim is hereby dismissed. If you make a claim, the burden of proof rests with you, not me. It's not my job to do your homework for you and prove your claims. Since you can't be bothered to back up your statements, your statements are not worthy of consideration, because nothing has been put forth by you to consider, other than an unsupported claim.[/QUOTE] This is a question for the Mods: Is it ok for me to post a mutitude of links here for Zecryphon. Because he does not want to take the time to see if my claims are true.
 
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Nadiine

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The use of the word hell is unfortunate, because it obscures the distinction between hades and gehenna. In so doing it gives error a foothold as it allows people to dismiss gehenna (the eternal fate of the wicked) by inferring it is the same as hades. The argument that hell is a pagan idea because the word has a pagan origin is ludicrous. Hades is a Greek work and has its roots in pagan religion, so what! The word "god" is from Old German and Norse. Because a word is borrowed from another culture does not mean that all of the meanings attached to that word in its original context are to be transferred to the Bible. In like manner the use of the word gehenna, which refers to the valley of Hinnom, used as a garbage heap and a dumping ground for the bodies of executed criminals, does not mean the NT usage refers to the literal place. It is used metaphorically. It was a place outside the city ("outer darkness"), where fires were constantly burning and where the worms consumed the garbage.

The eternal (aionion) punishment of the wicked, consists of exclusion from the presence of the Lord ("outer darkness"). It is eternal separation with no hope of release. Eternal is a word used to describe the reward of the saints and the punishment of the wicked. There is no reason to conclude that period of punishment is shorter than the period of reward.

Refrus Revlis
Actually, it doesn't matter - Revelation says that after all are judged, that death and hell (incl. all not found in the book of life) are then cast into the lake of fire.

The lake of fire is where everything 'evil' (all who rejected God's righteousness & pardon) ends up.
 
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royalpriesthood

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ok i'll clearify it Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
2Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; and others......
i was saying that this topic was irrelevant to the saints if you can prove hell exist and put it in its proper context and meaning, bravo! well done you've accomplished nothing! your just confirming what scripture said.and this topic doesn't edify the saints it just starts a endless debate for which i find rediculus and a lil annoying because what it really does is take our focus off biblical strategies to know our enemies and to take heed to the things which HE said, the full depth of hell the meaning the understanding the context if you wanted to know JESUS probably wouldn't told us because hell is minor to HIM the saints are far more important

 
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MarkEvan

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ok i'll clearify it Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
2Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; and others......
i was saying that this topic was irrelevant to the saints if you can prove hell exist and put it in its proper context and meaning, bravo! well done you've accomplished nothing! your just confirming what scripture said.and this topic doesn't edify the saints it just starts a endless debate for which i find rediculus and a lil annoying because what it really does is take our focus off biblical strategies to know our enemies and to take heed to the things which HE said, the full depth of hell the meaning the understanding the context if you wanted to know JESUS probably wouldn't told us because hell is minor to HIM the saints are far more important



Partially true, Jesus said "not to fear he who could only kill the body, but rather He who after He has killed the body has the power to cast the soul into hell (whatever that means)," the fear of the LORD is the beggining of wisdom we are told, keeping the understanding (that we are all answerable to God for the deeds we do in the body) in mind is important, its also important to help others to see this, the whole of the new testament is talking about the free gift of God balanced against the penalty for sin, it is difficult to leave out the punishment for sin when sin is such an important topic.






As to the subject of "is hell real" revelation talks about satan and the beast and the false prophet being thrown into the lake of fire where the "smoke of their torment will go up for ever and ever," it also says that anyone who recieves the mark of the beast will be thrown where they are, surely that means that the smoke of their torment will go up for ever and ever as well?


Mark :)
 
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Zecryphon

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I'm not the one who's being lazy. You made the claim that King James was a Mason, but have offered no proof to back up your claim. So your claim is hereby dismissed. If you make a claim, the burden of proof rests with you, not me. It's not my job to do your homework for you and prove your claims. Since you can't be bothered to back up your statements, your statements are not worthy of consideration, because nothing has been put forth by you to consider, other than an unsupported claim.
This is a question for the Mods: Is it ok for me to post a mutitude of links here for Zecryphon. Because he does not want to take the time to see if my claims are true.[/QUOTE]
If you have any links to such information, send them to me in a PM. Don't waste the mods time with this nonsense.
 
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GuardianShua

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This is a question for the Mods: Is it ok for me to post a mutitude of links here for Zecryphon. Because he does not want to take the time to see if my claims are true.
If you have any links to such information, send them to me in a PM. Don't waste the mods time with this nonsense.[/QUOTE]http://www.conspiracyworld.com/index0055.htm http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/masonic_bible_with_abalone_shell.htm http://www.av1611.org/kjv/kjvhist.html Part#1. http://www.endtimeprophecy.net/EPN-1/Articles/Articles-AKJV/kjvhist1.html#anchor1234567 Part#2. http://www.endtimeprophecy.net/EPN-1/Articles/Articles-AKJV/kjvhist2.html#anchor1234567 King James: http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/james_vi/james_vi.html Noteworthy: http://www.moriel.org/articles/discernment/ruckmanism/king_james_founder_freemason_lodges.htm Here are the links you did not want to look for.
 
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JFSA

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This is how three Bible dictionaries define hell:
Harpers Bible Dictionary
hell, an English word used to translate Heb., Sheol; Gk., Hades; and Heb., Gehenna. In Christian tradition it is usually associated with the notion of eternal punishment, especially by fire. This idea appears in Isa. 66:24, but it is not clearly associated with a place. Jewish writings from the third century b.c. onward speak of places of punishment by fire for evil spirits and the wicked dead (1 Enoch 18:11-16; 108:3-7, 15; 2 Esd. 7:36-38). The book of Revelation describes a lake that burns with fire and brimstone in which the wicked will be eternally punished (Rev. 19:20; 20:14-15; 21:8).


Eastons Bible Dictionary
Hell —
derived from the Saxon helan, to cover; hence the covered or the invisible place. In Scripture there are three words so rendered:

(1.) Sheol, occurring in the Old Testament sixty-five times. This word sheol is derived from a root-word meaning “to ask,” “demand;” hence insatiableness (Prov. 30:15, 16). It is rendered “grave” thirty-one times (Gen. 37:35; 42:38; 44:29, 31; 1 Sam. 2:6, etc.). The Revisers have retained this rendering in the historical books with the original word in the margin, while in the poetical books they have reversed this rule.
In thirty-one cases in the Authorized Version this word is rendered “hell,” the place of disembodied spirits. The inhabitants of sheol are “the congregation of the dead” (Prov. 21:16). It is (a) the abode of the wicked (Num. 16:33; Job 24:19; Ps. 9:17; 31:17, etc.); (b) of the good (Ps. 16:10; 30:3; 49:15; 86:13, etc.).
Sheol is described as deep (Job 11:8), dark (10:21, 22), with bars (17:16). The dead “go down” to it (Num. 16:30, 33; Ezek. 31:15, 16, 17).
(2.) The Greek word hades of the New Testament has the same scope of signification as sheol of the Old Testament. It is a prison (1 Pet. 3:19), with gates and bars and locks (Matt. 16:18; Rev. 1:18), and it is downward (Matt. 11:23; Luke 10:15).
The righteous and the wicked are separated. The blessed dead are in that part of hades called paradise (Luke 23:43). They are also said to be in Abraham’s bosom (Luke 16:22).
(3.) Gehenna, in most of its occurrences in the Greek New Testament, designates the place of the lost (Matt. 23:33). The fearful nature of their condition there is described in various figurative expressions (Matt. 8:12; 13:42; 22:13; 25:30; Luke 16:24, etc.).

The New Bible Dictionary
HELL. ‘Hell’ in the NT renders the Gk. word transliterated as ‘Gehenna’ (Mt. 5:22, 29-30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mk. 9:43, 45, 47; Lk. 12:5; Jas. 3:6). The name is derived from the Heb. (ben)(benê) hinnōm, the Valley of (the son of Hinnom, a valley near Jerusalem (Jos. 15:8; 18:16), where children were sacrificed by fire in connection with pagan rites (2 Ki. 23:10; 2 Ch. 28:3; 33:6; Je. 7:31; 32:35). Its original derivation is obscure, but Hinnom is almost certainly the name of a person. In later Jewish writings Gehenna came to mean the place of punishment for sinners (Assumption of Moses 10:10; 2 Esdras 7:36). It was depicted as a place of unquenchable fire—the general idea of fire to express the divine judgment is found in the OT (Dt. 32:22; Dn. 7:10). The rabbinic literature contains various opinions as to who would suffer eternal punishment. The ideas were widespread that the sufferings of some would be terminated by annihilation, or that the fires of Gehenna were in some cases purgatorial (Rosh Hashanah 16b-17a; Baba Mezi’a 58b; Mishnah Eduyoth 2. 10). But those who held these doctrines also taught the reality of eternal punishment for certain classes of sinners. Both this literature and the Apocryphal books affirm belief in an eternal retribution (cf. Judith 16:17; Psalms of Solomon 3:13).

The teaching of the NT endorses this past belief. The fire of hell is unquenchable (Mk. 9:43), eternal (Mt. 18:8), its punishment is the converse of eternal life (Mt. 25:46). There is no suggestion that those who enter hell ever emerge from it. However, the NT leaves the door open for the belief that while hell as a manifestation of God’s implacable wrath against sin is unending, the existence of those who suffer in it may not be. It is difficult to reconcile the ultimate fulfilment of the whole universe in Christ (Eph. 1:10; Col. 1:20) with the continued existence of those who reject him. Some scholars have contended that an eternal punishment is one which is eternal in its effects; in any case eternal does not necessarily mean never-ending, but implies ‘long duration extending to the writer’s mental horizon’ (J. A. Beet). On the other hand Rev. 20:10 does indicate conscious, never-ending torment for the devil and his agents, albeit in a highly symbolic passage, and some would affirm that a similar end awaits human beings who ultimately refuse to repent. In any case, nothing should be allowed to detract from the seriousness of our Lord’s warnings about the terrible reality of God’s judgment in the world to come.
In Jas. 3:6 Gehenna, like the bottomless pit in Rev. 9:1ff.; 11:7, appears to be the source of evil on the earth.
NT imagery concerning eternal punishment is not uniform. As well as fire it is described as darkness (Mt. 25:30; 2 Pet. 2:17), death (Rev. 2:11), destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord (2 Thes. 1:9; Mt. 7:21-23), and a debt to pay (Mt. 5:25-26).
In 2 Pet. 2:4 only, we find the Verb tartaroō, translated in rsv ‘cast into hell’, and rendered by the Pesh. ‘cast down to the lower regions’. Tartaros is the classical word for the place of eternal punishment but is here applied to the intermediate sphere of punishment for fallen angels.

At the end of the day the official position of the Christian Church is that there is a place where the unrepentant shall spend eternity seperated from God in eternal punishment. This is quite clearly the intended viewpoint as espoused by the writers of the Bible.

If certain people do not wish to believe that this place and punishment exist, then that is their choice. However, they should be quite certain of their position as their witness about this issue shall have everlasting consequences for the lost that they converse with. They shall also have to give account for their non-disclosure of this fundamental belief.

A solid reading of Revelation 20 should suffice to indicate that there is this place of eternal suffering for those whose names are not in the Book of Life. If a person does not wish to call this place hell, then so be it. But this does not alter the eternal fact that the wicked "will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Woe to the Christian that waters down the gospel and does not present it in it's proven historical truth.









 
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Zecryphon

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If you have any links to such information, send them to me in a PM. Don't waste the mods time with this nonsense.
http://www.conspiracyworld.com/index0055.htm http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/masonic_bible_with_abalone_shell.htm[/QUOTE]
Conspircay world? Are you serious??? I was hoping for something along the lines of a serious Christian website. But if this is one of the sources you use, that speaks for itself! LOL When I read that you had sources on the internet for this stuff, I thought "yeah, probably a conspiracry theory website" and lookee here, that's EXACTLY what you have! LOL Too funny. Also there's nothing on that page proving that King James was a Mason! You're supposed to be giving me evidence that supports that claim and you haven't yet. The big claim of that page is that a Bible is found on every altar of the Masonic Lodge in America. That's not proof of your claim that King James was a Mason.
 
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GuardianShua

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This is a repost.
The grave is a dark and separate place.


/////// An angel (MESSENGER) can be either. Angelology is also a part of the Pagan religion. Here is something profound that Jesus said: The Coming of the Kingdom of God.
Luke 17:20. Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21. nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is among you." In the bible God also called the earth, heaven. I also would like to state that the transliteral, for the Hebrew word "Satan" means adversary. My Satan is the errors introduced into Christianity. I could use some angels (messengers) on my side to oppose Satan (adversaries). Because of the war going on in this heaven, Im opposed to the dragon (secret societies.) Both of them, the sea and earth.
 
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Aibrean

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Well even if there isn't hell (which I believe there is) I'd rather be in heaven eternally (new "earth" in different translations where heaven is like the atmosphere of earth since one is taken and one is left...the Greek makes it as one is taken to judgment and one is left and forgiven) than not exist or have by soul extinguished or punished by God.
 
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GuardianShua

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This is a repost.

The grave is a dark and separate place.


/////// An angel (MESSENGER) can be either a person from the kingdom God, or a man. Angelology is also a part of the Pagan religion. Here is something profound that Jesus said: The Coming of the Kingdom of God.
Luke 17:20. Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21. nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is among you." In the bible God also called the earth, heaven. I also would like to state that the transliteral, for the Hebrew word "Satan" means adversary. My Satan is the errors introduced into Christianity. I could use some angels (messengers) on my side to oppose Satan (adversaries). Because of the war going on in this heaven, Im opposed to the dragon (secret societies.) Both of them, the sea and earth.
http://www.conspiracyworld.com/index0055.htm http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masoni...lone_shell.htm http://www.av1611.org/kjv/kjvhist.html Part#1. http://www.endtimeprophecy.net/EPN-1...#anchor1234567 Part#2. http://www.endtimeprophecy.net/EPN-1...#anchor1234567 King James: http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/.../james_vi.html Noteworthy: http://www.moriel.org/articles/disce...son_lodges.htm Here are the links you did not want to look for.[/quote] Have these conversations been any help to anyone?
 
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Tavita

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Have these conversations been any help to anyone?[/quote]


I went looking this morning and found the site at moriel.org, it tied in King James and freemasonry but I still don't know how accurate it is. I haven't checked the rest out yet.

I'm getting a lot of 'file not found' through these links, is anyone else?
 
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Nadiine

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Have these conversations been any help to anyone?


I went looking this morning and found the site at moriel.org, it tied in King James and freemasonry but I still don't know how accurate it is. I haven't checked the rest out yet.[/quote]
It doesn't matter to me - anyone fluent in Greek/Hebrew with the early manuscripts has already crosschecked the KJV and it's been found to be pretty accurate.

No translations are 100% perfect, but it's similar to other reliable translations. I use more than one anyways.
 
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