Creationism vs. Everything

[Abramsthicket]

The creation vs Evolution debate which seems to rage everywhere is badly defined. It should really be the creation vs everything in the real world debate. Astronomy, Cosmology, Geography, archaeology, philosophy, geology, History, Psychology, Biology, Evolution, and reason. Just look up at night, or look at the sea on a clear day, or the life teeming in a clod of earth, and you will see obvious reasons why creationism is just plain wrong.


Now, can we have some sort of debate.

 

[ValiantForTruth]

"some sort of debate" is all that could be had. You give nothing in your opening that either proves or disproves anything. I could just as easily say, "Astronomy, Cosmology, Geography, archaeology, philosophy, geology, History, Psychology, Biology, Evolution, and reason all prove the need for a creator. Just look up at night, or look at the sea on a clear day, or the life teeming in a clod of earth, and you will see (in the great design of the world) obvious reasons why there must be a designer and that evolution is just plain wrong."


give proof!

 

[jojored]

I believe that Creation and the Big Bang both happened...who is to say the "BIG BANG" wasn't part of God's plan?

When talking about God we are talking about eternity...so when Geneis I talks about God's creation of something in a day...how can we assume that a day ( in respective to eternity) equals 24 hours?

I do not belive that Adam & Eve were the first man and woman. In reading Geneis I:26 -:31 you will read that God said "Lest Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds and every creeping thing the creeps on the earth." :27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." Suggesting that man and woman were created at the same time.

I believe Adam and Eve were the 8th day Creations...(Genesis 2) giving man his soul. To support my belief is found in Genesis Chapter 4. After Cain kills Able (verse 14) when Cain states...."I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth, and it will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me."

If there were now only Adam, Eve, Cain & Able (now dead) who was going to find & kill him? Then in Genesis 4:16 it tells how Cain went into the land of Nod on the East of Eden and there Cain knew his wife and conceived and bore Enoch.

OK, where did Cain's wife come from if humans did not exist before Adam & Eve?

So the Bible supports that there were humans outside of the Garden of Eden.

I love health discussions...what are your thoughts?

 

[jojored]

I believe that Creation and the Big Bang both happened...who is to say the "BIG BANG" wasn't part of God's plan?

When talking about God we are talking about eternity...so when Geneis I talks about God's creation of something in a day...how can we assume that a day ( in respective to eternity) equals 24 hours?

I do not belive that Adam & Eve were the first man and woman. In reading Geneis I:26 -:31 you will read that God said "Lest Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds and every creeping thing the creeps on the earth." :27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." Suggesting that man and woman were created at the same time.

I believe Adam and Eve were the 8th day Creations...(Genesis 2) giving man his soul. To support my belief is found in Genesis Chapter 4. After Cain kills Able (verse 14) when Cain states...."I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth, and it will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me."

If there were now only Adam, Eve, Cain & Able (now dead) who was going to find & kill him? Then in Genesis 4:16 it tells how Cain went into the land of Nod on the East of Eden and there Cain knew his wife and conceived and bore Enoch.

OK, where did Cain's wife come from if humans did not exist before Adam & Eve?

So the Bible supports that there were humans outside of the Garden of Eden.

I love health discussions...what are your thoughts?

 

[avdrummerboy]

Do you belive in science? If yes, and it sounds like you do, then you must belive in physics. In this there is a UNIVERSAL law (ie throughout the universe, no exceptions) called the First law of Thermodynamics. This law has been proven by many time and time again, we even did it in High school science calsses to a lesser extent. The first law states that "matter (energy) can not be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another." Now that this has been established, the big bang theory is just plain dumb. It makes no sense. It basically states that "nothing" exploded into "everything." It breaks the law and is clearly not true. In order for the universe to form something or someone of greater power had to create it, it came from that greater power. As a christian, I believe that that person is God the Father. He not only created the universe but put (scientific) law and order in it. Some like to argue that the universe is a chaotic system and you can't have ordered chaos, but if you do a little research, you will find that scientists are discovering that the universe is much more ordered that first expected.

 

[gluadys]

Now that this has been established, the big bang theory is just plain dumb. It makes no sense. It basically states that "nothing" exploded into "everything."

No, it doesn't say that. So all you have really proved is that you are ignorant of what Big Bang theory really says.

 

[avdrummerboy]

Then tell me, does it not suggest that everything started in a small point and exploded into the universe from nothing?

 

[gluadys]

Then tell me, does it not suggest that everything started in a small point and exploded into the universe from nothing?

Not from nothing, no. Everything that is in the universe today was also in that small point. All the energy, including all the energy that has since condensed into matter was compressed into that small point.

Yes, there was an expansion (not actually an explosion) but it was an expansion of something, not nothing.

 

[avdrummerboy]

Same difference really. something or Someone had to be more powerful that the universe they created, according to the laws of science, which cannot be discarded for just because they don't fit. The question then is WHO?

 

[gluadys]

Same difference really. something or Someone had to be more powerful that the universe they created, according to the laws of science, which cannot be discarded for just because they don't fit. The question then is WHO?

Not necessarily. Maybe the universe was never created. Maybe it just always was in one form or another. And about 13 billion years ago, it was in the form of a small singularity which began to expand into what we know today. There really is no scientific need for anything more powerful than the universe.

 

[avdrummerboy]

So now we chage the htpothesis to fit the theory. It doesn't matter if it came from some other form of energy, it all started somewhere at sometime by something or someone of very great power.

 

[MattTheAgnostic]

So now we chage the htpothesis to fit the theory. It doesn't matter if it came from some other form of energy, it all started somewhere at sometime by something or someone of very great power.

Unfortunately quantum theory allows something to be created from nothing. Here's the link:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mark_vuletic/vacuum.html
It doesn't have to actually have started from anything at all. Sorry.

 

[gluadys]

So now we chage the htpothesis to fit the theory. It doesn't matter if it came from some other form of energy, it all started somewhere at sometime by something or someone of very great power.

Not really a change in the story. Just pointing out that no WHO is required.

Of course, that doesn't show there was not a WHO either. Someone or something was always there. No one will disagree with that. Maybe it was God. Maybe it was quantum vacuum. Maybe there is no difference.

 

[avdrummerboy]

Okay so now we talk about particles that aren't even physically there, just equal and opposite energy. They manipulate already existing matter, i.e. energy (matter) that was there before, something or someone had to have it there originally.

 

[MattTheAgnostic]

Okay so now we talk about particles that aren't even physically there, just equal and opposite energy. They manipulate already existing matter, i.e. energy (matter) that was there before, something or someone had to have it there originally.

What are you talking about, they are physically there. Did you even read it?

 

[gluadys]

Okay so now we talk about particles that aren't even physically there, just equal and opposite energy. They manipulate already existing matter, i.e. energy (matter) that was there before, something or someone had to have it there originally.

The something can be the energy itself. It does not have to be something different. The quantum particles, after all, are energy.

 

[avdrummerboy]

Energy that came from somewhere was there before.

 

[gluadys]

Energy that came from somewhere was there before.

You are still assuming that it "came from somewhere". There was no somewhere for it to come from. There was no space until space was created by the big bang.

So the energy was just there.

 

[cocacolabear2]

go FSM

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Just old posts.