Poll Revision

[woobadooba]

Ok, I just worked on revising and clarifying the rules that went up in the poll.

Tell me what you think.

The Poll Version

2. Both the Main SDA Forum and Sub-forums

2.5 Any threads started by a person that are, either a continuation of a currently locked thread, or similar to a currently locked thread, will be deleted immediately by our moderators.

2.6 Any threads or posts that glorify satan will not be tolerated. For example, referring to Satan as a Savior, or expressing love for him should constitute satanic glorification.

2.7 Graphic descriptions of a sexual act are forbidden and will not be tolerated.

2.8 Any doctrine that speaks as though God is going to spare satan, or reconcile Himself to him, is forbidden.

2.9 No profane language will be allowed. This includes other variations of profane words/terms which are intended to be used in the same way. For example, don't tell people to 'Frack off', or use the word 'Freakin' in place of you know what.

2.10 No condescending generalizations about Adventists or the SDA church will be tolerated.

Revised Version With Some Additions

2.5 Any threads that are a continuation of a thread that has been locked as a result of rule violations will be deleted

What this also means is that a poster is not permitted to take a post from a locked thread and use it to start up another thread

2.6 Posts that glorify Satan will be deleted. For example, referring to satan as a Savior, or expressing love for him constitutes satanic glorification.

What this also means is that it is forbidden to speak of Satan as though he is greater than, or equal to Jesus Christ (God).

2.7 Sexual content within a post will not be tolerated.

What this means is that it is forbidden to graphically describe a sexual act, or post images that are of a sexual nature

2.8 Blasphemy of God is forbidden. It should not be said, or implied that God is a liar, nor should any other condecsneding or derrogatory remark be made about God.

An example of implied blasphemy would be to say that Satan will be reconciled to God, or that God will ultimately forgive satan and spare him from destruction, thus granting him salvation. The Bible is very clear about the fate of Satan, that he will be destroyed. Moreover, the Bible is inspired by God. Therefore, to declare these things about Satan is to call God a liar. Hence this is blasphemy.

2.9 Profane language will not be tolerated, nor will any variations of it be allowed.

For examples of a variation of profane language, it would be profane to tell someone to 'Frack' off, or to refer to a person as a 'jackass', or to tell someone that you are tired of their 'freakin' nonsense

2.10 No condescending generalizations about Adventists or the SDA church will be tolerated

It is true that there are bad apples in the church. But that doesn't mean all adventists are like that. To suggest that they are is not only false, it is an insult. What happens within a minority does not constitute what the majoirty is.

2.11 Referring to SDA doctrine (any one of the 28 fundamental doctrines of our church) as cultish, satanic, or devilish (or variants thereof) is forbidden.

Granted, one could declare any doctrine, or some aspect of it to be false; but that person must provide a Biblical reason for declaring it to be false. In other words, that person has to give scripture to prove that it is false.

 

[JonMiller]

The modifications are better/good. I still don't necessarily agree with all your comments on them, though.

JM

 

[woobadooba]

I still don't necessarily agree with all your comments on them, though.

JM

Why? Explain, please.

 

[JonMiller]

An example of implied blasphemy would be to say that Satan will be reconciled to God, or that God will ultimately forgive satan and spare him from destruction, thus granting him salvation. The Bible is very clear about the fate of Satan, that he will be destroyed. Moreover, the Bible is inspired by God. Therefore, to declare these things about Satan is to call God a liar. Hence this is blasphemy.

If they are saying that God is wrong, then that is blasphemy, I agree. However, if they are saying that the interpretation is wrong... that isn't clearly blasphemy, and I don't think we should censure.

JM

 

[woobadooba]

An example of implied blasphemy would be to say that Satan will be reconciled to God, or that God will ultimately forgive satan and spare him from destruction, thus granting him salvation. The Bible is very clear about the fate of Satan, that he will be destroyed. Moreover, the Bible is inspired by God. Therefore, to declare these things about Satan is to call God a liar. Hence this is blasphemy.

If they are saying that God is wrong, then that is blasphemy, I agree. However, if they are saying that the interpretation is wrong... that isn't clearly blasphemy, and I don't think we should censure.

JM

I understand your point, and that is why the rule would only apply as implied blasphemy under circumstances wherein the Bible is utterly clear about what constitutes truth about God.

Again, the Bible is very clear on the matter. Satan will be destroyed. To say otherwise is to call God a liar.

The reason why this rule came about is because Moriah came in here and tried to promote the idea that Satan will be saved. As we know, demons were communicating through her. Obviously, this is their false teaching, not some personal interpretation.

 

[StormyOne]

if the people in the sub-forum have already decided what rules they will abide by, why must the rules you are proposing supersede those rules?

 

[woobadooba]

if the people in the sub-forum have already decided what rules they will abide by, why must the rules you are proposing supersede those rules?

Some have expressed that they are not happy about the wording of the poll. If you want to participate in modifying the poll then give your input.

But please do not come in here and try to derail this thread with such comments as you have given above. It is not helpful in the least bit.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Ok here is my recommendations about the revised rules

2.5 Any threads that are a continuation of a thread that has been locked as a result of rule violations will be deleted

What this also means is that a poster is not permitted to take a post from a locked thread and use it to start up another thread

There is no need for this rule and in fact it could be counter productive as a thread could have been closed due to personal flames or disagreements which may not have anything to do with the thread topic. This rule would prevent people from discussing something because a couple people may have derailed the previous similar thread.

2.6 Threads that glorify Satan will be deleted. For example, referring to satan as a Savior, or expressing love for him constitutes satanic glorification.

What this also means is that it is forbidden to speak of Satan as though he is greater than, or equal to Jesus Christ (God).

Again This is not needed as it is not likely there will be a thread meant to glorify satan. The rule does nothing if someone derails a thread to glorify satan as that is not the thread's fault. This I think is already covered with the idea of staying on topic.

2.7 Sexual content within a post will not be tolerated.

What this means is that it is forbidden to graphically describe a sexual act, or post images that are of a sexual nature

Probably not necessary as CF rules probably cover pornography and profanity. We could check on that but if they don't we should not use sexual content as then we could not even discuss things from the Bible which clearly have sexual content.

2.8 Blasphemy of God is forbidden. It should not be said, or implied that God is a liar, nor should any other condecsneding or derrogatory remark be made about God.

An example of implied blasphemy would be to say that Satan will be reconciled to God, or that God will ultimately forgive satan and spare him from destruction, thus granting him salvation. The Bible is very clear about the fate of Satan, that he will be destroyed. Moreover, the Bible is inspired by God. Therefore, to declare these things about Satan is to call God a liar. Hence this is blasphemy.

There is an idea called Universalism which does hold that satan would be reconciled as well as everyone else. It was held by church fathers such as Origen. It is not blasphemy it is a different interpretation of Scriptures. As the forum is about the interpretation of Scriptrues we should not be so narrow as to ever assume one view of something and exclude what we may not believe.

If we kept this type of idea of blasphemy then when someone says we must stone to death sabbath breakers and adulterers because God said we must and someone says that this is not something God said for all eternity as His orders they could claim that we are committing blasphemy because we are denying something clearly written in the Bible.

2.9 Profane language will not be tolerated, nor will any variations of it be allowed.

For examples of a variation of profane language, it would be profane to tell someone to 'Frack' off, or to refer to a person as a 'jackass', or to tell someone that you are tired of their 'freakin' nonsense

Those terms are mentioned are not profanity. The only way to make this an acceptable rule is to define every word not acceptable. The assumption that a work is a substitutive for a profanity is entirely to subjective, especially when you consider the f--k word can mean practically anything.

2.10 No condescending generalizations about Adventists or the SDA church will be tolerated

It is true that there are bad apples in the church. But that doesn't mean all adventists are like that. To suggest that they are is not only false, it is an insult. What happens within a minority does not constitute what the majoirty is.

Another useless rule, what does it mean to be condecending when making a generalization? Entirely subjective.

2.11 Referring to SDA doctrine (any one of the 28 fundamental doctrines of our church) as cultish, satanic, or devilish is forbidden.

Again unnecessary as that is already covered in the CF rules about flaming. This rules just says not to call names and I don't think we need to keep repeating such things in our rules.

You can see the rules that have been approved at:
http://foru.ms/t5739473-wiki-seventh-day-adventist-rules-wiki-take-2.html

 

[StormyOne]

Some have expressed that they are not happy about the wording of the poll. If you want to participate in modifying the poll then give your input.

But please do not come in here and try to derail this thread with such comments as you have given above. It is not helpful in the least bit.

the question was asked to get clarification.... Woob you don't have to like me but you could try every now and again to simply answer a question without all the attitude... IMO.....

 

[JonMiller]

I have ran across the doctrine that all (even Satan) will be saved. While I disagree wit hit, it isn't only suggested by Moriah and some good Christians have had some good arguments in favor of it (although I disagree).

JM

 

[woobadooba]

2.5 Any threads that are a continuation of a thread that has been locked as a result of rule violations will be deleted

What this also means is that a poster is not permitted to take a post from a locked thread and use it to start up another thread

There is no need for this rule and in fact it could be counter productive as a thread could have been closed due to personal flames or disagreements which may not have anything to do with the thread topic. This rule would prevent people from discussing something because a couple people may have derailed the previous similar thread.

It is necessary to have this rule because on several occasions I have seen people take posts from locked threads and start up new threads with them.

It is also wrong to do this because you can't take a person's post from a thread and put it in another thread without that person's permission.

2.6 Threads that glorify Satan will be deleted. For example, referring to satan as a Savior, or expressing love for him constitutes satanic glorification.

What this also means is that it is forbidden to speak of Satan as though he is greater than, or equal to Jesus Christ (God).

Again This is not needed as it is not likely there will be a thread meant to glorify satan. The rule does nothing if someone derails a thread to glorify satan as that is not the thread's fault. This I think is already covered with the idea of staying on topic.

Presumption on our part. Not likely doesn't = never.

By the way, we have seen this in here lately by one poster. So the rule is necessary.

I would only add to the rule to include the term 'posts', along with threads.

2.7 Sexual content within a post will not be tolerated.

What this means is that it is forbidden to graphically describe a sexual act, or post images that are of a sexual nature

Probably not necessary as CF rules probably cover pornography and profanity. We could check on that but if they don't we should not use sexual content as then we could not even discuss things from the Bible which clearly have sexual content.

But the Bible does not go into graphic details. One poster in here described a sexual act as such. This is not proper for a forum, as teens come here, they should not be exposed to such content. Moreover, it is repulsive. I won't go into details, but it was bad.

2.8 Blasphemy of God is forbidden. It should not be said, or implied that God is a liar, nor should any other condecsneding or derrogatory remark be made about God.

An example of implied blasphemy would be to say that Satan will be reconciled to God, or that God will ultimately forgive satan and spare him from destruction, thus granting him salvation. The Bible is very clear about the fate of Satan, that he will be destroyed. Moreover, the Bible is inspired by God. Therefore, to declare these things about Satan is to call God a liar. Hence this is blasphemy.

There is an idea called Universalism which does hold that satan would be reconciled as well as everyone else.

Just because a belief exists, that doesn't mean it should be allowed in this forum, nor does it mean it doesn't constitute a blasphemous thought. hence your point is moot.

There is a no blasphemy rule, and we must have an understanding of what that means. One doesn't have to blatantly declare God to be a liar to infer that He is a liar. Implied blasphemy does exist.

2.9 Profane language will not be tolerated, nor will any variations of it be allowed.

For examples of a variation of profane language, it would be profane to tell someone to 'Frack' off, or to refer to a person as a 'jackass', or to tell someone that you are tired of their 'freakin' nonsense

Those terms are mentioned are not profanity. The only way to make this an acceptable rule is to define every word not acceptable. The assumption that a work is a substitutive for a profanity is entirely to subjective, especially when you consider the f--k word can mean practically anything.

They do not constitute that which is profane according to the dictionary. However, it's the manner and context within which they are used which renders them to be profane.

2.10 No condescending generalizations about Adventists or the SDA church will be tolerated

It is true that there are bad apples in the church. But that doesn't mean all adventists are like that. To suggest that they are is not only false, it is an insult. What happens within a minority does not constitute what the majoirty is.

Another useless rule, what does it mean to be condecending when making a generalization? Entirely subjective.

This is merely your opinion, as you have a tendency to make such condescending generalizations.

For example, if one says Adventists are legalists, that would constitute a condescending generalization, as it is not only insulting to saying this, it is false, because not all Adventists are legalistic.

It would be more appropriate to say that some Adventsists are legalistic, thus adding a qualifier to the statement.

 

[OntheDL]

please also include the phrase 'screw you' in the list of words disallowed. It means "F... you". Some people have used many times in their posts. This is not acceptable on a Christian forum.

 

[woobadooba]

please also include the phrase 'screw you' in the list of words disallowed. It means "F... you". Some people have used many times in their posts. This is not acceptable on a Christian forum.

Please note that the examples are not exhaustive. The moderators will have to use their discretion to determine if there is a rule violation. Any mod that knows what he is doing ought to see 'screw you' as a flame.

 

[NightEternal]

I don't know where you guys get this from. I have seen 'screw you' used only once by Moriah. Are we even on the same forum here?

Or maybe it happened and I missed it, but I am pretty sure I have been keeping up with things quite well here.

 

[OntheDL]

we are trying to root out the unnecessary, unchristian remarks. It's not to target a secific person, but to etablish a standard of conduct.

 

[woobadooba]

I don't know where you guys get this from. I have seen 'screw you' used only once by Moriah. Are we even on the same forum here?

Or maybe it happened and I missed it, but I am pretty sure I have been keeping up with things quite well here.

So because it was only used once, that doesn't mean it can be used again?

It is because it was used once that it ought to be noted as a violation.

Rules often exist because of once occurring experiences.

Nevertheless, as I had said, the mods should be intelligent enough to see that such an expression is a flame, and issue a warning.

 

[reddogs]

Ok, I just worked on revising and clarifying the rules that went up in the poll.

Tell me what you think.

The Poll Version

2. Both the Main SDA Forum and Sub-forums

2.5 Any threads started by a person that are, either a continuation of a currently locked thread, or similar to a currently locked thread, will be deleted immediately by our moderators.

2.6 Any threads or posts that glorify satan will not be tolerated. For example, referring to Satan as a Savior, or expressing love for him should constitute satanic glorification.

2.7 Graphic descriptions of a sexual act are forbidden and will not be tolerated.

2.8 Any doctrine that speaks as though God is going to spare satan, or reconcile Himself to him, is forbidden.

2.9 No profane language will be allowed. This includes other variations of profane words/terms which are intended to be used in the same way. For example, don't tell people to 'Frack off', or use the word 'Freakin' in place of you know what.

2.10 No condescending generalizations about Adventists or the SDA church will be tolerated.

Revised Version With Some Additions

2.5 Any threads that are a continuation of a thread that has been locked as a result of rule violations will be deleted

What this also means is that a poster is not permitted to take a post from a locked thread and use it to start up another thread

2.6 Posts that glorify Satan will be deleted. For example, referring to satan as a Savior, or expressing love for him constitutes satanic glorification.

What this also means is that it is forbidden to speak of Satan as though he is greater than, or equal to Jesus Christ (God).

2.7 Sexual content within a post will not be tolerated.

What this means is that it is forbidden to graphically describe a sexual act, or post images that are of a sexual nature

2.8 Blasphemy of God is forbidden. It should not be said, or implied that God is a liar, nor should any other condecsneding or derrogatory remark be made about God.

An example of implied blasphemy would be to say that Satan will be reconciled to God, or that God will ultimately forgive satan and spare him from destruction, thus granting him salvation. The Bible is very clear about the fate of Satan, that he will be destroyed. Moreover, the Bible is inspired by God. Therefore, to declare these things about Satan is to call God a liar. Hence this is blasphemy.

2.9 Profane language will not be tolerated, nor will any variations of it be allowed.

For examples of a variation of profane language, it would be profane to tell someone to 'Frack' off, or to refer to a person as a 'jackass', or to tell someone that you are tired of their 'freakin' nonsense

2.10 No condescending generalizations about Adventists or the SDA church will be tolerated

It is true that there are bad apples in the church. But that doesn't mean all adventists are like that. To suggest that they are is not only false, it is an insult. What happens within a minority does not constitute what the majoirty is.

2.11 Referring to SDA doctrine (any one of the 28 fundamental doctrines of our church) as cultish, satanic, or devilish is forbidden.

Granted, one could declare any doctrine, or some aspect of it to be false; but that person must provide a Biblical reason for declaring it to be false. In other words, that person has to give scripture to prove that it is false.

Need to take out the word "immediately" as that is redundant if alltogether unworkable in 2.5 as shown below:

2.5 Any threads started by a person that are, either a continuation of a currently locked thread, or similar to a currently locked thread, will be deleted immediately by our moderators.

Could you add the words "or Satanism" at 2.6 as shown below:
2.6 Any threads or posts that glorify Satan or Satanism...

Could you add the words "or of a sexual nature" at 2.7 as shown below:


2.7 Sexual content or nature within a post will not be tolerated.

Can you change the word "forbidden" to "not allowed" in 2.8 and spelling corrected as who is forbbiding anything that is incorrect, its just not allowed.....and take out "It should not be said, or implied that God is a liar, nor should any other condecsneding or derrogatory remark be made about God." it is redundant.


2.8 Blasphemy of God is forbidden. It should not be said, or implied that God is a liar, nor should any other condecsneding or derrogatory remark be made about God.

Can you take off "nor will any variations of it be allowed." in 2.9 as it is redudant and rewrite it simply as below:

2.9 Profane language is not allowed.

Can you rewrite 2.10 as shown below:

2.10 No unnecessary or undue disparaging remarks about Adventists or the SDA church will be allowed.

 

[woobadooba]

Red, did you read the Revision?

Please tell me what you think about the way I worded it.

Would you add to it or take anything away from it?

 

[reddogs]

Red, did you read the Revision?

Please tell me what you think about the way I worded it.

Would you add to it or take anything away from it?

Looks like 2.5 is OK now..


Could you add the words "or Satanism" at 2.6 as shown below:
2.6 Any threads or posts that glorify Satan or Satanism...

Could you add the words "Unmerited" at 2.7 as shown below:


2.7 Unmerited sexual content within a post will not be tolerated.

Can you change the word "forbidden" to "not allowed" in 2.8 and spelling corrected ....and take out "It should not be said, or implied that God is a liar, nor should any other condecsneding or derrogatory remark be made about God." it is redundant. So it should read as follows:


2.8 Blasphemy of God is not allowed.

Can you take off "nor will any variations of it be allowed." in 2.9 as it is redudant and rewrite it simply as below:

2.9 Profane language is not allowed.

Can you rewrite 2.10 as shown below:

2.10 No unnecessary or undue disparaging remarks about Adventists or the SDA church will be allowed.

 

[JonMiller]

Simple is better then more complicated. Allow the moderators some leeway.

JM