No stones to cast?

[climb8b]

Sin-
— n.
1a the breaking of divine or moral law, esp. by a conscious act

Sin relies upon god or the divine for the definition, so without god there can be no sin.

As an atheist i therfore believe that i truly have not sinned as i belive in all probability that there is no God. I cant have sinned as i dont recognise the law or morality of your god. Christians think and believe that i have sinned and that is a judgement that you make on anyone who doesnt believe as you do.

For you to convince me that i have "sinned" rather than done wrong by the morality of society or my country you will have to prove the existance and superiorty of your god.

I cannot disprove your god, though as i maintain the burden of proof lies with those making the positive claim, that would be Christians, making the claim that their god exists, and is the one true god.

Can there be any such thing as sin if you cannot prove the existance of you god?

 

[cyberlizard]

Can there be any such thing as sin if you cannot prove the existance of you god?

Sure there can be sin, as sin simply means to 'miss the mark'. It's an archery term. So unless your perfect, you 'sin' all the time.

But just because you do not believe in God does not mean that God is not real.

I have never seen a 'polar bear' though am convinced they exist (tv does not count as it may be fake)

 

[GrinningDwarf]

I cannot disprove your god, though as i maintain the burden of proof lies with those making the positive claim, that would be Christians, making the claim that their god exists, and is the one true god.

Can there be any such thing as sin if you cannot prove the existance of you god?

Oh, the proof is there. You just refuse to accept it. This is nothing new. The apostle Paul says this is what happens:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.

Romans 1:18-25

It's like someone refusing to believe in gravity. Does it matter if you really believe it or not? Well...it does if you throw yourself off a cliff. Same effect here for not believing in God.

 

[climb8b]

GrinningDwarf, I dont take the bible as an authority on anything, so whatever Appostle Paul says is irrelevent.

Sin is a religious construct, the word might have come to be use in other contexts as pointed out by cyberlizard but it still remains that a sin is a wrong commited against a belief system or a deity. if the belief system or the deity fall so does the definition of sin.

I have done things wrong but those were judged by the society that i live in as wrong, i dont always treat people with the respect they deserve and that is wrong by my own moral standards but it is not a sin.

 

[climb8b]

But just because you do not believe in God does not mean that God is not real.

I have never seen a 'polar bear' though am convinced they exist (tv does not count as it may be fake)

Just because you belive in God does not make him real, execept as a figment of you immagination and all the other minds that carry the same god image with them.

I have seen a polar bear and i can say that they are real, other things like amoeba i havent seen but i have seen persusaive evidence that they exist, i have seen pictures and photographs from microscopes. i know that atoms exist with electrons, photon, quarks etc the evidence is there and hypotheisis and theorys are correct in using the above ideas which make them real.

Idea->Form Hypothesis->Test hypothesis and revise or reject if necessary->Theory.

Idea-Form God. dont test dont revise dont reject even if the evidence shows something to the controry.

I havent seen any, any persusaive evidence for a deity that can suspend the laws of nature and interfere in our world and cannot be detected by the tools of science. it is all smoke and mirrors to perpetuate a delusion IMHO.

 

[GrinningDwarf]

GrinningDwarf, I dont take the bible as an authority on anything, so whatever Appostle Paul says is irrelevent.

OK...it may be irrelavent to you, but it doesn't make it any less true.

Let me put it this way....assume for a minute that global warming is real...or, more accurately, that global warming is directly caused by human actions on the environment and that it can be reversed by human actions. There are those who don't believe the scientists who say that the warming is a direct result of man-made factors. Anything those scientists say is irrelavent to those who don't believe it. If what the scientists say is true, does it matter if the doubters think what the scientists say is irrelavent?

 

[calidog]

Can there be any such thing as sin if you cannot prove the existance of you god?

Actually God gave you a concience and you know, for the most part, when you sin. I'm not too sure that He expects us to prove Him, but He expects us to give you His word. I believe He will prove Himself to you as He has done for us.

 

[Reformationist]

Sin-
— n.
1a the breaking of divine or moral law, esp. by a conscious act

Sin relies upon god or the divine for the definition, so without god there can be no sin.

As an atheist i therfore believe that i truly have not sinned as i belive in all probability that there is no God. I cant have sinned as i dont recognise the law or morality of your god.

Your recognition of and submission to the Law of God is irrelevent to whether it exists or is binding upon you. The Bible clearly states that man, in his natural fallen state, is incapable of submitting to the Law of God. It is God alone who grants faith. Irrespective of your lack of faith, you, like the rest of us, will stand before God to account for our sins, whether you acknowledge God now or not. At the day of your judgement, you'll bend your knee before Him.

For you to convince me that i have "sinned" rather than done wrong by the morality of society or my country you will have to prove the existance and superiorty of your god.

You'd be right, of course, if "proving the existance of God" were something we were capable of doing.

I cannot disprove your god, though as i maintain the burden of proof lies with those making the positive claim, that would be Christians, making the claim that their god exists, and is the one true god.

Can there be any such thing as sin if you cannot prove the existance of you god?

"Proof" of anything is subjective. When I see my children and the miracle that is human existance and the ordered environment I can't but see the hand of God. Just as your reluctance to accept as viable the existance of God has no bearing on whether God truly reigns, my ability to convince you of His authority, something with which I am never tasked, has no bearing on whether He reigns.

I am tasked with sharing the Gospel. You are commanded to accept it and submit to the Lord God. Both of us can disobey but neither with impugnity. As I said, we will both give account on the day of our reckoning.

I pray that God gives both of us the strength, wisdom, and faith to obey.

God bless

 

[climb8b]

Reformationist,

There is a question in the OP, do you care to share an answer or just to deliver a sermon on sin and repentance?

You also may like my thread on "Are you tolerant"?

 

[Reformationist]

Reformationist,

There is a question in the OP, do you care to share an answer or just to deliver a sermon on sin and repentance?

I answered your OP in detail. Were you speaking of the only sentence that ends in a "?," i.e., "Can there be any such thing as sin if you cannot prove the existance of you god?" I did answer it. I said, in my very first sentence, "Your recognition of and submission to the Law of God is irrelevent to whether it exists or is binding upon you." If that isn't clear enough, I'll reword. Sin, which is the failure to comply with the Law of God, exists regardless of whether you, or I, acknowledge it. Likewise, my ability, or lackthereof, to "prove" to you the existence of the Almighty has no bearing on whether the Law of God exists or whether you transgress it.

On a slightly different note, it is not possible for us, by our own power, to "prove" anything to you, because, as I said, "proof" is subjective. I could point to the orderly nature or creation as proof of the divine and you may see that same order as simply the natural order of things apart from the divine. You see climb, faith in God and submission to His authority is not wrought through an intellectual assent so attempting to prove the divine through intellectual means is fruitless. I am capable of explaining the Gospel message to you but causing you to believe is neither my task, nor something that is within my ability as a human.

You also may like my thread on "Are you tolerant"?

I'll try to check it out. Word of advice, if you're interested. If you want people to take the time to share their knowledge with you so that you can learn, accusing them of preaching to you when they make a sincere attempt to enlighten you isn't generally the wisest approach.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

You also may like my thread on "Are you tolerant"?

Can you tell me where it is? I couldn't seem to find it.

Thanks,
God bless

 

[climb8b]

so what you are saying is that sin exists because people belive in god whether god is real or not.

My other current topic is actually called are you intolerant my mistake, sorry.

this is the link

http://foru.ms/t5952395-are-you-intolerant.html

sorry but you reply did come off a bit preachy even if you didnt mean it.

 

[Reformationist]

so what you are saying is that sin exists because people belive in god whether god is real or not.

No. I'm saying that God is real and because God is real and has established a Law, transgression of that Law is a sin whether you acknowledge the existance of God or not.

If God were not real it wouldn't matter whether I sat here and told you that failure to comply with His Law is a sin.

The truth will be made manifest:

Philippians 2:9-11
Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

sorry but you reply did come off a bit preachy even if you didnt mean it.

My apologies. It isn't difficult to sound like one is preaching when speaking of the message of the Gospel. Of course, I could recommend that you give someone the benefit of the doubt...

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

My other current topic is actually called are you intolerant my mistake, sorry.

this is the link

http://foru.ms/t5952395-are-you-intolerant.html

Well, I took a look at it but I didn't see a question. Were you just "delivering a sermon" or did you want input? I ask because you "came off a bit preachy even if you didnt mean it that way."

God bless

 

[R3quiem]

Actually God gave you a concience and you know, for the most part, when you sin. I'm not too sure that He expects us to prove Him, but He expects us to give you His word. I believe He will prove Himself to you as He has done for us.

There are some people who honestly don't know they are doing something wrong.

For example, there are the sins who don't hurt anybody except yourself and your relationship with God. These sins generally don't affect the conscience of most people. They get by under the radar. Then one must question if they should be held accountable for something they didn't know was wrong.

 

[mystery4]

Sin-
— n.
1a the breaking of divine or moral law, esp. by a conscious act

Sin relies upon god or the divine for the definition, so without god there can be no sin.

As an atheist i therfore believe that i truly have not sinned as i belive in all probability that there is no God. I cant have sinned as i dont recognise the law or morality of your god. Christians think and believe that i have sinned and that is a judgement that you make on anyone who doesnt believe as you do.

For you to convince me that i have "sinned" rather than done wrong by the morality of society or my country you will have to prove the existance and superiorty of your god.

I cannot disprove your god, though as i maintain the burden of proof lies with those making the positive claim, that would be Christians, making the claim that their god exists, and is the one true god.

Can there be any such thing as sin if you cannot prove the existance of you god?

I loved your circular reasoning. Well done!

I have had someone try to tell me that Satan doesn't exist. He only has power over us so long as we "think" he is real. My understanding of what you said runs in similar lines except with God. Correct me if I am wrong.

Proving the existance of God is not my job.

it is just like the wind. I only give it power when I think about it. I can't see it, it doesn't talk to me, therefore its not real. And even in a cyclone or tornado, while everyone is getting blown away or their property damaged, I'm perfectly safe and my property hasn't been touched at all...

If you deny the wind, then you will see the truth that the wind doesn't exist either...

God can give his own evidence without me at all. What I can do though is testify to the difference he has made in my life.

For example last year I went through a period of depression. I wasn't able to concentrate, the only things that got done were things that others were relying upon me to do (for example work).
I even got to the point where I didn't even even want to pray or read my Bible. I only went to church because I had to (if I didn't I was going to fail my subjects). Yet all through that time God never left me. He gave me support when I needed it, people to talk to when I needed it. He even found little ways to let me know he was still there. If it weren't for God I would have failed all my subjects.

You can say what you like, there are others who go through similar situations like I did. But that doesn't change the facts. I have grown alot through that period.

And while this may not help you, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that God exists.

 

[climb8b]

Well, I took a look at it but I didn't see a question. Were you just "delivering a sermon" or did you want input? I ask because you "came off a bit preachy even if you didnt mean it that way."

God bless

Nice reply? dont think i will be considering anything you say now that you have shown how petty you are.

 

[BigNorsk]

GrinningDwarf, I dont take the bible as an authority on anything, so whatever Appostle Paul says is irrelevent.

Sin is a religious construct, the word might have come to be use in other contexts as pointed out by cyberlizard but it still remains that a sin is a wrong commited against a belief system or a deity. if the belief system or the deity fall so does the definition of sin.

I have done things wrong but those were judged by the society that i live in as wrong, i dont always treat people with the respect they deserve and that is wrong by my own moral standards but it is not a sin.

So sin is to commit a wrong against a belief system and you commit wrongs against your belief system but that still isn't sin?

Are you simply saying your belief system is wrong and built on nothing and is really no system at all so therefore there is no sin in your nonsystem?

If not then what is sin in your system?

Marv

 

[Reformationist]

Nice reply? dont think i will be considering anything you say now that you have shown how petty you are.

LOL! Ironic. I quote your own words and you call me petty. That about says it. That's okay. I didn't get the feeling that you were here for anything more than to avail yourself of the opportunity to let us know how smart you think you are.

Good luck with that.

 

[dvd_holc]

Sin-
— n.
1a the breaking of divine or moral law, esp. by a conscious act

Sin relies upon god or the divine for the definition, so without god there can be no sin.

As an atheist i therfore believe that i truly have not sinned as i belive in all probability that there is no God. I cant have sinned as i dont recognise the law or morality of your god. Christians think and believe that i have sinned and that is a judgement that you make on anyone who doesnt believe as you do.

For you to convince me that i have "sinned" rather than done wrong by the morality of society or my country you will have to prove the existance and superiorty of your god.

I cannot disprove your god, though as i maintain the burden of proof lies with those making the positive claim, that would be Christians, making the claim that their god exists, and is the one true god.

Can there be any such thing as sin if you cannot prove the existance of you god?

anyone been evil to you? Anyone mistreat you? Anyone bully you? Have you bullied anyone? Have you mistreated anyone? Have you been evil?