The Bible: Symbolic or Literal?

[ludovica]

Sure... but is there any record to suggest that sincere prayers improve medical outcomes?

double blind testing should show this

I do not know if prayer has a quantifiable effect on medical outcomes, but I do know that prayer is a powerful comforter, .. and in being a comforter, can ease the anxiety of a sick person and their family to such an extent that any stress related complications are very much lessened.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I do not know if prayer has a quantifiable effect on medical outcomes, but I do know that prayer is a powerful comforter, .. and in being a comforter, can ease the anxiety of a sick person and their family to such an extent that any stress related complications are very much lessened.

Well sure, I don't disagree for a second... however the previous poster was making claims about tangible medical benefits of prayer...

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Sure... but is there any record to suggest that sincere prayers improve medical outcomes?

double blind testing should show this

I don't know if this website is reliable, but this is what I've found online:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/medical6.htm

Another problem seems to be that lots of these studies use "distant healing" prayer....maybe prayers are more effective if the people prayed for someone they know and care deeply about. Also some people believe that healing prayers are more effective if the person has a gift for healing, and if they lay hands on the sick people instead of just praying for them at home. ..so maybe these studies are flawed in several ways. As I said before, the reason I believe in the healing power of prayer is because I've known people to be healed, not because this has been scientifically proven (if it can be).

God bless!


monica

 

[Dannager]

Sure... but is there any record to suggest that sincere prayers improve medical outcomes?

double blind testing should show this

Actually, the double-blind testing I've seen done on prayer healing has shown no correlation between recovery and prayer. In addition, in other tests where the individuals knew they were being prayed for, they tended to do worse.

Basically, prayer doesn't heal people.

 

[Dannager]

I think that reliability is how trustworthy something is, and "how often you can expect something to work in the way you require of it" is a condition we place on trustworthiness. Usually we don't rely on unpredictable things. In the case of God, this 'condition' is unnecessary, because He always does what is best, even if we don't understand it. He's reliable without needing to be predictable, and the only such exception in the world.
Maybe I just have my own definition I see what you're saying though, it's true that not everyone by far gets healed through prayer (although I know people whose family members were healed that way). I think we're just using the words differently, lol. I'm trying to say that even though the healing is unreliable, that doesn't make God unreliable.

I can agree with you there.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Basically, prayer doesn't heal people.

Oki what if someone was diagnosed with a tumour and scheduled for surgery, and their family prayed for them to be healed..... and the next day the person felt much better, so the doctors did the test again and found that the tumour was completely gone? Cause..that happened to someone.

Maybe the reason why this doesn't work all the time is because: 1. not enough faith, and 2. sometimes it's God's will, not to punish people but because He has a plan. For example, some people who suffer are later used by God to help others who are suffering in the same way, etc. God can turn bad things around and use them for good.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I can agree with you there.

 

[david_x]

By observing their actions. So-called 'medical miracles' only seem to occur in the presence of above-average medical care. Indeed, you never hear of amputees being granted new limbs, or starving children being granted food, no matter how hard they pray.

That is, the power to heal â la Christ seems to be restricted to aiding those with middle-class, white Americans with above-average medical care.
This is the observed fact.
How, then, do you reconcile this with youru claim that healing is available to all Christians?

Again you are assuming you know the whole picture. If God knowes everything then his plan obviously is in motion the correct way. This is were faith kicks in. It is not going to be a walk in the park. To be quit frank it is going to suck. But in the end you can be happier from the toil.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Again you are assuming you know the whole picture. If God knowes everything then his plan obviously is in motion the correct way. This is were faith kicks in. It is not going to be a walk in the park. To be quit frank it is going to suck. But in the end you can be happier from the toil.

Amen!

 

[Dannager]

Oki what if someone was diagnosed with a tumour and scheduled for surgery, and their family prayed for them to be healed..... and the next day the person felt much better, so the doctors did the test again and found that the tumour was completely gone? Cause..that happened to someone.

I would say that, in all likelihood, the cancer went into remission and the tumor was dealt with by the body's immune system.

There are literally millions of people praying for healing right now, every day. Statistically, some of them will be healed naturally, whether they pray or do not pray. You are falling victim to a predisposition your mind has to attribute natural things to supernatural causes.

Maybe the reason why this doesn't work all the time is because: 1. not enough faith, and 2. sometimes it's God's will, not to punish people but because He has a plan. For example, some people who suffer are later used by God to help others who are suffering in the same way, etc. God can turn bad things around and use them for good.

Or maybe, just maybe, it doesn't work all the time because God isn't healing people who pray for it.

 

[david_x]

Or maybe, just maybe, it doesn't work all the time because God isn't healing people who pray for it.

Then you just don't understand the concept of prayer, we ask for what we want but we want the Lord to do his will.

 

[Dannager]

Then you just don't understand the concept of prayer, we ask for what we want but we want the Lord to do his will.

If God is going to do his will anyway, why do we need to pray for it?

Trust me, I understand the concept of prayer. I also understand that, quite frankly, it doesn't work.

 

[david_x]

If God is going to do his will anyway, why do we need to pray for it?

Trust me, I understand the concept of prayer. I also understand that, quite frankly, it doesn't work.

God's mind has been changed before. The fact is that he wants us to try.

 

[ludovica]

If God is going to do his will anyway, why do we need to pray for it?

Trust me, I understand the concept of prayer. I also understand that, quite frankly, it doesn't work.

Prayer stills and concentrates the mind, bringing focus and peace of mind.
I'm not sure prayer was EVER meant to be some sort of "wishlist"

 

[Dannager]

Prayer stills and concentrates the mind, bringing focus and peace of mind.
I'm not sure prayer was EVER meant to be some sort of "wishlist"

I agree. But many millions of people still attempt to use it as such.

 

[Dannager]

God's mind has been changed before. The fact is that he wants us to try.

That's interesting. I've never heard of a theology that purports to allow men to change God's mind.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I agree. But many millions of people still attempt to use it as such.

"If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer"

Would Jesus lie?


Prayer is not a 'wishlist', but God does listen to our prayers and take them into consideration. That's an amazing priveledge, to talk to the Creator of the Universe and know that He hears!!

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I would say that, in all likelihood, the cancer went into remission and the tumor was dealt with by the body's immune system.

Wow would you rather believe that? What if the cancer only went into remission because of the prayers?

are falling victim to a predisposition your mind has to attribute natural things to supernatural causes.

Wherever we look, we can find God's glory.
Sometimes He uses 'natural things' to answer prayers.
I read somewhere that an Eastern Orthodox monk was asked, what if 'answers to prayers' are mere coincidences? and he responded, that when he stops praying the coincidences stop.

Or maybe, just maybe, it doesn't work all the time because God isn't healing people who pray for it.

...oki, well I believe He does

 

[MoNiCa4316]

"One day as he was teaching, Pharisees and teachers of the law, who had come from every village of Galilee and from Judea and Jerusalem, were sitting there. And the power of the Lord was present for him to heal the sick. Some men came carrying a paralytic on a mat and tried to take him into the house to lay him before Jesus. When they could not find a way to do this because of the crowd, they went up on the roof and lowered him on his mat through the tiles into the middle of the crowd, right in front of Jesus.

When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven."
The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, "Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?" Jesus knew what they were thinking and asked, "Why are you thinking these things in your hearts? Which is easier: to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...." He said to the paralyzed man, "I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home." Immediately he stood up in front of them, took what he had been lying on and went home praising God. Everyone was amazed and gave praise to God. They were filled with awe and said, "We have seen remarkable things today." (Luke 5:17-26)

If Jesus could do this while He was on earth, why not now? He is alive. He can forgive sins and heal people.

Notice how He "saw their faith" and then healed and forgave the man.

 

[DMagoh]

Or maybe, just maybe, it doesn't work all the time because God isn't healing people who pray for it.

If God is going to do his will anyway, why do we need to pray for it?

Trust me, I understand the concept of prayer. I also understand that, quite frankly, it doesn't work.

Can I just ask why you even want to be a Christian or even be associated with God? From all your posts all over this forum, I have yet to see anything that you agree with or think positively about God.

• You think that most of the stories in the Bible are fables and legends.
• You think that, for the most part, the Bible was written by men and is therefore FULL of errors.
• You are against several Christian teachings about morality, including pre-marital sex, pornography, homosexual behavior, etc.
• You think prayer is completely useless.

What is it that makes you want to be considered a Christian, or be associated with God?

What basic concepts of Christianity do you actually agree with?