Hypothetical for Scientists

[Nathan Poe]

So you're saying man is ultimately responsible for what's in the Bible? That doesn't sound like divine influence to me. It sounds more like George Bush and science. Discard what you don't like and flaunt what you do. If nothing suits you, make up your own.

But of course. How else do you manage to make a God in your own image?

 

[llDayo]

But of course. How else do you manage to make a God in your own image?

Well, in my case, people already worship me.

 

[monkeypsycho62]

Well, in my case, people already worship me.

Heretic! I am the one true Lord. You shall burn forever.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Well, in my case, people already worship me.

Heretic! I am the one true Lord. You shall burn forever.

Now, now... there's no need to argue. Couldn't the three of us work out some sort of "trinity" deal?

I mean, it's worked before...

 

[FishFace]

I have only 7 minutes left, so I can't post examples.

But I have already shown how the AV1611 has been preserved nearly word-for-word thru the AV350 Gothic, thru the AV1389 Wycliffe, etc.

And as for the "tares" (not "chaff"), I have already compared what the AV1611 says vis-a-vis the NIV several times.

Like Colossians 4:15, for example, where the AV1611 (and It's predecessors) say "his house" vs the NIV, that says "her house".

Have a great day and see you tomorrow.

That's all very well, but you're still left with the problem Poe, Thaum (and now I) are highlighting: if God allows weed in his wheat, then you must have some way of deciding which is which. Saying that the KJV is the same as some other version is just pushing the problem further back - you now have to tell whether that version is all the truth.
Even if we had an original manuscript, how would you tell which bits were divinely inspired, and which bits were the inspiree's human additions?

Your comparison with the NIV implies that you believe everything in the KJV (or some version, at any rate) is all truth, but if God allows weeds to creep in, how do you know that the version you're relying on hasn't already been infected?

And, continuing with the wheat and weed analogy, if you let weeds grow in your wheat field, some of your wheat is going to choke and die as a result. If you let in extra bits, you can't help other bits being erased.

 

[TheManeki]

I'll have to repeat something insightful that has been posted on CF before (I wish I could remember the person who said it):

There's a difference between saying God inspired the Bible and saying God wrote the Bible. After all, Leonardo Da Vinci was inspired by a young woman to paint the Mona Lisa; the woman did not paint the picture herself. Her face was filtered through his perceptions to get the work of art we have today.

 

[thaumaturgy]

I'll have to repeat something insightful that has been posted on CF before (I wish I could remember the person who said it):

There's a difference between saying God inspired the Bible and saying God wrote the Bible. After all, Leonardo Da Vinci was inspired by a young woman to paint the Mona Lisa; the woman did not paint the picture herself. Her face was filtered through his perceptions to get the work of art we have today.

And then a bunch of Japanese computer scientists analyzed her facial features and determined how she would sound.

Next: What is God's Voice like?

[BIBLE]Deuteronomy 5:26[/BIBLE]

 

[Nathan Poe]

I'll have to repeat something insightful that has been posted on CF before (I wish I could remember the person who said it):

There's a difference between saying God inspired the Bible and saying God wrote the Bible. After all, Leonardo Da Vinci was inspired by a young woman to paint the Mona Lisa; the woman did not paint the picture herself. Her face was filtered through his perceptions to get the work of art we have today.

The problem is that AV1611VET, as I'm sure he'll say himself, does not believe this. He wholeheartedly believes that God wrote the Bible, using human authors as His tools. He will not (or at least, has not in the past) recognize any historical, cultural, literary, or any non-divine influence in the Bible.

I don't see his position on the matter changing anytime soon. Which is a shame, because the Bible gains a great deal more depth when seen through historical, cultural, and literary lenses.

 

[TheManeki]

Next: What is God's Voice like?

When I was a young'un, my folks got me some Bible stories on cassette. God sounded a lot like Darth Vader...I mean, James Earl Jones. And there was always a thunderclap whenever he spoke.

God: <BOOM!> Moses! Go to Pharaoh and tell him, "Let my people go!"
Moses: But I am afraid!
God: <BOOM!> I find your lack of faith disturbing. [God Force chokes Moses.]

 

[MarcusHill]

When I was a young'un, my folks got me some Bible stories on cassette. God sounded a lot like Darth Vader...I mean, James Earl Jones.

There's a good reason for that. James Earl Jones is God.

 

[Tiberius]

And he overcame his stuttering problem too. Proof that he is to be worshipped, for he has faced the trials and been victorious!

 

[llDayo]

Now, now... there's no need to argue. Couldn't the three of us work out some sort of "trinity" deal?

I mean, it's worked before...

Ok, but, I claim all the women.

 

[AV1611VET]

...how do you know that the version you're relying on hasn't already been infected?

I'm not talking about tares growing within the pages of the Bible, Itself; I'm talking about other versions.

Once again, just compare the AV1611 with Its seven predecessors, and see if any tares have entered.

(Start with 1 John 5:7 --- the most likely place a tare would appear --- and you'll see none.)

 

[AV1611VET]

He wholeheartedly believes that God wrote the Bible, using human authors as His tools. He will not (or at least, has not in the past) recognize any historical, cultural, literary, or any non-divine influence in the Bible.

I prefer interference, instead.

 

[thaumaturgy]

I'm not talking about tares growing within the pages of the Bible, Itself; I'm talking about other versions.

Once again, just compare the AV1611 with Its seven predecessors, and see if any tares have entered.

(Start with 1 John 5:7 --- the most likely place a tare would appear --- and you'll see none.)

AV, you must be going out of your way to ignore the point. The KJV is predicated on earlier versions along with earlier manuscripts. There is no way to parse out "other versions" in such a scenario.

We do not (to my knowledge) have any originals of a bible text. The oldest New Testament manuscript we have is P52 which, if I recall is a scrap of Galatians from about 142AD (?), ergo a copy of a book nearly 50 to 100 years older (possibly it itself is a copy of a copy of a copy...etc.). The oldest OT manuscripts we have are the Dead Sea Scrolls at about 250BC.

So when you say there are other versions which are "tares" and ALL bibles are predicated on prior "versions" you have to have some alternate means of verifying that YOUR favored version is the TRUE version.

Sadly we don't have any "contemporary" documents.

This has nothing to do with truth or falsehood, it is merely pointing out to you that you cannot arbitrarily determine that ONE version of a text is absolute truth when there are similar texts that are variants that are of similar or older vintage but say something different from your favored text.

This isn't even a discussion of religion. This is simply a logic test.

 

[thaumaturgy]

When I was a young'un, my folks got me some Bible stories on cassette. God sounded a lot like Darth Vader...I mean, James Earl Jones. And there was always a thunderclap whenever he spoke.

God: <BOOM!> Moses! Go to Pharaoh and tell him, "Let my people go!"
Moses: But I am afraid!
God: <BOOM!> I find your lack of faith disturbing. [God Force chokes Moses.]

LOL

"This is CNN"

 

[AV1611VET]

AV, you must be going out of your way to ignore the point. The KJV is predicated on earlier versions along with earlier manuscripts. There is no way to parse out "other versions" in such a scenario.

If you see eight Fords sitting in a parking lot with ten other cars --- all ten different makes from ten other countries --- would you not conclude that the eight Fords all come from the same company?

Would you also conclude that the other ten cars are foreign cars?

In other words, you can easily spot the American-made cars.

(I know --- Fords have parts on them made from other countries, etc. You guys will pick this apart, then whine because I'm not making sense, or replying to your posts.)

 

[TheManeki]

If you see eight Fords sitting in a parking lot with ten other cars --- all ten different makes from ten other countries --- would you not conclude that the eight Fords all come from the same company?

Ford
= "Fix Or Repair Daily"
= "Found On Road Dead"

I think I understand why you're comparing the Bible to a Ford, instead of a Toyota or Honda.