At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread (2) - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[GraceInHim]

I beg to differ, but I had a Christian icon taken away, and, as Theology staff, even at the Admin level, I was required to be involved in those decisions, and every time I wrote to someone, it was with tears in my eyes, begging them to understand that we, in no way, considered them non-Christian. And we firmly meant it. It is people like you who insist on perpetuating a myth like this that do the injustice.

yes.. you always did well on matters of icon changes, very slow to judge and seemed very much against it.

But others were not as you, on staff seen the icon faith questioned more on reports and members were asked repeatedly if they agreed with the creed.

Also remember before I joined staff, was asked by a Mod if I was a preterist, the thought to ask me this was repulsive and really made me feel like a witch hunt on me..

p.s. sorry to anyone whom I may offended while I was on staff, remember once or twice asking about the creed on a icon check.. was my job at the time.. and wished I never did this, against it and to be honest; being on staff before the reforms seemed very robotic.

Like the transparency now and think we should give the reforms a chance.

 

[GenemZ]

I also added stoning to death disobedient children.

I was making a point using the bible showing that every Christian picks and chooses what they want the bible to say. Would Christians consider stoning to death people evil? The bible supports such behaviors.

Ironically? To try and make your point? You just did what you condemned. You just picked and chose to misuse the Bible to skew it to your advantage!


Men in the USA used to get hung from a tree for stealing a man's horse in the wild west. At that time? It was a just law. Men could die without their horse. Today? It would be insane as a law.

So? Does that having been the law at one time, make American's today unjust? Your way of thinking?! Says, yes!


Christians understand that what you referred to is from another dispensation. It was the days of the "Wild West" in Biblical times. Some things that were needed and just then, would be insane for today. The laws you refer to, were designed for only ancient Israel which was a theocracy at a time when the pagan lands around them were filled with all sorts of atrocities we know not the likes of today in the civilized world.

You are not insulting us. You are just wasting your time by showcasing that you are ignorant, when you claim to understand the Bible better than Christians.

In Christ, GeneZ
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[GenemZ]

I find it telling when someone takes a statement completely out of context and twists it to say something that wasnt said. [/font]

Its an acquired skill to be able do that sort of thing with such ease. Some find it to be like a second nature.

We wrestle not against flesh and blood.
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As Bob Dylan, sang..... "You're going to have to serve somebody."

Welcome to the "good fight."

Grace and peace, GeneZ
​

 

[GenemZ]

Apparently Jesus' command to love thy neighbour, do unto others, etc. was lost a few eras ago.

Jesus said to love others as you love yourself. What if you are an obnoxious person? That would justify being obnoxious to other? Yes. If you want to be inflexible.

That was the part I liked, but I guess it doesn't play very well anymore. Now we've moved onto tolerance is not murdering those who disagree with you.

Tolerance is feeling sorry for others who can only resort to distorting your thoughts and intentions as to begin to appear to be your equal.

You and your mutual admiration, snobbery, party formed here is showing a nastiness that Atheism is known for as you distort the intentions of Christians as easily as you do God's Word.

And? We are to defend ourselves against your words? And, say we are not really fat? When you stand before us as a trick mirror to be found in a fun house? Don't think so.

With your kind I feel pity. Not tolerance. You are not to be trusted.

IC, GeneZ
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[GenemZ]

Tolerance is not relativism.

Jesus taught tolerance and love amongst believers.

Are you a believer?

Then, why do you keep pushing in front of the line?

Ask the Pharisees about how tolerant Jesus was.



This the tolerance of Jesus...

Psalm 14:1a (New International Version)

"The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."




Can you tolerate that?

In Christ, GeneZ
​

 

[joebudda]

Ironically? To try and make your point? You just did what you condemned. You just picked and chose to misuse the Bible to skew it to your advantage!


Men in the USA used to get hung from a tree for stealing a man's horse in the wild west. At that time? It was a just law. Men could die without their horse. Today? It would be insane as a law.

So? Does that having been the law at one time, make American's today unjust? Your way of thinking?! Says, yes!


Christians understand that what you referred to is from another dispensation. It was the days of the "Wild West" in Biblical times. Some things that were needed and just then, would be insane for today. The laws you refer to, were designed for only ancient Israel which was a theocracy at a time when the pagan lands around them were filled with all sorts of atrocities we know not the likes of today in the civilized world.

You are not insulting us. You are just wasting your time by showcasing that you are ignorant, when you claim to understand the Bible better than Christians.

In Christ, GeneZ
​

It seems you completely missed the point.
I never claimed to understand anything better then any one so I would appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth.

My point is all Christians pick and choose what they what the bible to say. All we need to do is look at all the different denominations there are to see the truth in this point.

And it was regarding Christians being told they are not Christians because their interpretation is less popular.

You only reinforce my point on picking and choosing what the bible says with your reply. You choose not to follow the "old" laws and attempt to justify why you don't. This is picking and choosing what the bible says.

I don't believe the bible, so me doing the same type of picking and choosing as Christians do is irrelevant to my point.

Christians come in all flavors. To say the less popular Christians are not Christians is dehumanizing and intolerant.

 

[Digit]

CF is not a Church though. It is a message board.

Actually CF is a church and in reply to the poster you quoted - no, non-Christians on CF are not analogous to guests in a church.

You cannot simply rule out the internet factor and pretend it's as it is in real life. It doesnt' work like that. The anonymity of the church brings out the brave and bold side of people, which often turns quite nasty. Guests in a church sit and listen and learn and those who go to the church to hear more about God, learn more about Him and listen, do not get interrupted every sentence by the guests asking them to clarify, expand, define and prove. In addition guests don't interrupt partway through and offer their own advice or version of things. It is in no way the same, and that's the main confusion I have with Erwin's statement about how people should just be able to walk in as they do at church.

Yes, CF is a church, but it can't function the same way. The nature of the internet and it's effect on us as people work against it in this regard. For every civil post there is, there are a handful of closed ones, or posts that end in sniping and petty remarks.

It needs a degree of control just like a real church.

Digit.

 

[joebudda]

Jesus taught tolerance and love amongst believers.

Are you a believer?

Then, why do you keep pushing in front of the line?

Ask the Pharisees about how tolerant Jesus was.



This the tolerance of Jesus...

Psalm 14:1a (New International Version)

"The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."




Can you tolerate that?

In Christ, GeneZ
​

Using the bible to dehumanize and call people names is always a good way to show the love of Jesus.

 

[Digit]

My point is all Christians pick and choose what they what the bible to say. All we need to do is look at all the different denominations there are to see the truth in this point.

No we do not. That is not faith in God, it is faith in god. One that does not exist except in our minds. It's too easy for non-Christians to quote the Bible out of context and warp it, I think we see that all the time here on CF.

And it was regarding Christians being told they are not Christians because their interpretation is less popular.

Popularity has nothing to do with it. We don't have a license to interpret things how we wish, as much as that would be so easy and clear so much up. We have to work within boundaries and some are more flexible than others, yet the core truths we all agree on.

You only reinforce my point on picking and choosing what the bible says with your reply. You choose not to follow the "old" laws and attempt to justify why you don't. This is picking and choosing what the bible says.

Picking and chosing is doing so without cause or justification. Having a thorough knowledge of scripture and understanding why we are not under the laws of the OT does not fall into this category or use of the phrase 'picking and chosing'.

Digit

 

[joebudda]

No we do not. That is not faith in God, it is faith in god. One that does not exist except in our minds. It's too easy for non-Christians to quote the Bible out of context and warp it, I think we see that all the time here on CF.


Popularity has nothing to do with it. We don't have a license to interpret things how we wish, as much as that would be so easy and clear so much up. We have to work within boundaries and some are more flexible than others, yet the core truths we all agree on.


Picking and chosing is doing so without cause or justification. Having a thorough knowledge of scripture and understanding why we are not under the laws of the OT does not fall into this category or use of the phrase 'picking and chosing'.

Digit

The bible never says you are not under the laws of the old testament. So you too are picking and choosing what the bible says.

The core truths are also picking and choosing. And Christians that don't align with these "core truths" are just as Christian as Christians that do.

Just so you know I have read the whole bible cover to cover, have you?

 

[GenemZ]

I'm sorry but it seems to me that FreeinChrist and yourself missed the part of Jesus' message which was not only love but compassion.

Jesus had love an compassion for the helpless. Not for those who were hostile towards him. You might need to begin to scrape off White Out from the Bible you are reading.

Jesus made a whip and threw out the money changers. He tore into those who opposed God's Spirit with a zeal that stunned his disciples. He was absolutely intolerant of the godless.

We are told to love the brethren, but not the world.

1 Timothy 4:1 (New Fangled Version)
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Tolerate them, and be compassionate towards them. Welcome them into your homes."
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It seems you are allowing your emotions and wishful thinking for a nicer world than it really is, to be your god - - and not God's Word.

Revelation 2:2 (New International Version)
"I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false."
​

The Lord encouraged and approved of intolerance when its called for. Intolerance can be a good thing. You must learn to become more tolerant of intolerance. If you do not? You will be suckered into evil down the road as your emotions act as your god.

In Christ, GeneZ
​

 

[GenemZ]

Using the bible to dehumanize and call people names is always a good way to show the love of Jesus.

Man was created in God's image.

If they reject God?

They only dehumanize themselves.


I can not believe for them. If I could? I would.

IC, GeneZ
​

 

[Digit]

The bible never says you are not under the laws of the old testament. So you too are picking and choosing what the bible says.

Maybe the Bible that you read cover to cover had Galatians 3:23-25 missing...
"Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law."

The law of the OT was given to Israel and has never applied to Christians or the world at large. The ten commandments are also not strictly applicable, yet 9 of them were repeated in the NT. It's good to know we are in His hands.

Just so you know I have read the whole bible cover to cover, have you?

In a linear fashion no. Through study and so forth possibly. I would encourage less reading of the Bible and more studying of it. I have often read parts and thought, "What the heck does that mean?" yet after study and questioning, have come to understand a little more of what before was a confusing passage or message.

Cheers,
Digit

 

[ZACTAK]

Why are people saying some of us do not have love and compassion when we are not saying we hate non-Christians or anything like that? Most of us are simply stating we want an area where we can be among other Christians. Most people who are going to join a CHRISTIAN forum would probably assume they would have an area where they could worship God and have fellowship with fellow Christians... if they do not have this, then this site is misleading.

 

[Digit]

Why are people saying some of us do not have love and compassion when we are not saying we hate non-Christians or anything like that? Most of us are simply stating we want an area where we can be among other Christians. Most people who are going to join a CHRISTIAN forum would probably assume they would have an area where they could worship God and have fellowship with fellow Christians... if they do not have this, then this site is misleading.

That's pretty much the simplest way of saying it. It's exactly how I feel and it's exactly why I joined the site. Nicely put.

Cheers,
Digit

 

[Lindon Tinuviel]

But yet you agreed (a couple of threads back) when a non-Christian said they felt shoved to the back of the bus? Wasn't that you? Or the one that compared CF to the ghettos that Hitler initiated?Anyway, it seems OK for one side to complain of persecution but not the other.

I don't believe that I agreed with either, NewDawn. If you think I did, show me where, please.

I suggest that everyone stop these types of comparisons. It is just an exaggeration, no matter who says it, and isn't productive to the conversation.

I think that's actually what I said.


ETA: Ah, I see. You think I'm Lisa. I am not.

 

[+RubiesFire+]

Why are people saying some of us do not have love and compassion when we are not saying we hate non-Christians or anything like that? Most of us are simply stating we want an area where we can be among other Christians. Most people who are going to join a CHRISTIAN forum would probably assume they would have an area where they could worship God and have fellowship with fellow Christians... if they do not have this, then this site is misleading.

Amen for such strong, truthful words!!

 

[Lindon Tinuviel]

Jesus had love an compassion for the helpless. Not for those who were hostile towards him.

I think the soldier with the missing ear might tell you differently.

Jesus made a whip and threw out the money changers. He tore into those who opposed God's Spirit with a zeal that stunned his disciples.

Ok. That was mentioned in the Bible how many times? Now compare that to how many times He's mentioned showing love, charity, and mercy.

He was absolutely intolerant of the godless.

I think a certain prostitute facing stoning might tell you differently.

You might need to begin to scrape off White Out from the Bible you are reading.

Think you missed a little White Out in your own Bible there, Genez.

 

[RomanSoldier]

Personally, I see no reason why there should not be "Christian Only" areas on CF just as before. I think most non-Christians would have little interest in these discussions anyway. IMO, this area should have only Christian mods.

What angered many of us in the non-Christian discussion forums (GA in particular) were the often ludicrous warnings, thread closures, thread deletions, and heavy handed mod actions along with a general "enemy combatant" attitude toward atheists in particular. And this was supposed to be an apologetics forum where opinions will obviously differ strongly. This discussion area would be a great place for non-Christian mods to be allowed in. The new rule of mods having to be "re-elected" also would weed out the "evil doers" and keep a good balance.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[ZACTAK]

Personally, I see no reason why there should not be "Christian Only" areas on CF just as before. I think most non-Christians would have little interest in these discussions anyway. IMO, this area should have only Christian mods.

What angered many of us in the non-Christian discussion forums (GA in particular) were the often ludicrous warnings, thread closures, thread deletions, and heavy handed mod actions along with a general "enemy combatant" attitude toward atheists in particular. And this was supposed to be an apologetics forum where opinions will obviously differ strongly. This discussion area would be a great place for non-Christian mods to be allowed in. The new rule of mods having to be "re-elected" also would weed out the "evil doers" and keep a good balance.

Just my 2 cents.

That is how most of CF was... the problems were what you mentioned, threads just disappearing, staff manipulating the rules and just giving out warnings and infractions as though they were nothing... the inquisitions to remove faith icons and marriage symbols, staff policies were not handled, staff conflict was not handled, and many staff closed off communication with members. When I was on staff I would at times spend time with members to make sure they understood where I was coming from, and some finally saw it and understood where I was coming from... THE PROBLEMS we stated are what needed to be changed, not all of this.