How many of us Conservative Christians believe in Capital Punishment?

[JimfromOhio]

Please do not debate since we already have a thread Here

 

[JimfromOhio]

Bump to get votes

 

[Gregged]

Sorry Jim, but none of the poll choices represent my position.

 

[nyj]

None of the poll choices represent my position either.

I think the United States is advanced enough that capital punishment need not be a considered option. It's not a deterrent, it is socially biased, and if we kill a single innocent individual the system is irretrievably broken IMO. So, I say let's not go there and instead give these criminals no reprieve. Lock them up for life in a cell. They get out when they die of natural causes.

 

[Lisa0315]

I cannot vote with these options. I know that God did not remove Capital Punishment, but that does not mean that we are forced to use it either.

Lisa

 

[Albion]

I cannot vote with these options. I know that God did not remove Capital Punishment, but that does not mean that we are forced to use it either.

Lisa

I kinda thought that too when reading the choices. But I voted yes in the belief that capital punishment is approved by scripture, period. We certainly are permitted to decide if it is to be rare or common, what methods of execution are to be used, for which crimes, and so on.

 

[Lisa0315]

I kinda thought that too when reading the choices. But I voted yes in the belief that capital punishment is approved by scripture, period. We certainly are permitted to decide if it is to be rare or common, what methods of execution are to be used, for which crimes, and so on.

Well, when you put it like that, it is more clear. I also voted yes, but I am opposed to capital punishment. It is indeed ordained in Scripture. However, it is also clear to me that much diligence, prayer, and absolute certainty of guilt should be had before an execution. (DNA evidence or confession)

Lisa

 

[tel0004]

I abstain. I agree with Lisa. I don't think God got rid of capital punishment, but I don't think its our responsibility to take somebodys life. Its also more expensive than life in prision, (b/c they can have unlimited appeals), and if you believe somebody who doesnt know Christ will spend forever in Hell, you should give them every second of their natural life to hear the gospel.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I cannot vote with these options. I know that God did not remove Capital Punishment, but that does not mean that we are forced to use it either.

Lisa

That's my position also, though I did vote: I voted the no opinion option. Capital punishment is scripturally allowed, but not required. It's a tool that scripture and Christian tradition permit the temporal authorities, when they determine it to be necessary. So beyond that point, it seems to be not a religious matter, but one of political philosophy, jurisprudence and social science.

My personal opinion is that it should be used, but only for the most heinous crimes and only when guilt is certain beyond not just a reasonable doubt but beyond any doubt at all.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Even if the Capital punishment is scripturally allowed, how is it not required, what kind of "reasoning" can this without any scriptural support?

As for the poll, down the road, there might be a "better phrases" poll regarding the Capital Punishment.

 

[Lisa0315]

Even if the Capital punishment is scripturally allowed, how is it not required, what kind of "reasoning" can this without any scriptural support?

As for the poll, down the road, there might be a "better phrases" poll regarding the Capital Punishment.

I think it is important that Jesus was an innocent man put to death by capital punishment. Even though, Pilate KNEW He was innocent, Pilate allowed His death for political reasons.

There is nothing in Scripture that forbids Capital Punishment. There is a lot in Scripture that would make one reluctant to use it.

Lisa

 

[JimfromOhio]

I think it is important that Jesus was an innocent man put to death by capital punishment. Even though, Pilate KNEW He was innocent, Pilate allowed His death for political reasons.

There is nothing in Scripture that forbids Capital Punishment. There is a lot in Scripture that would make one reluctant to use it.

Lisa

Pilate didn't make that decision, Jesus said so Himself inn John 19:9-11:

Pilate said. "Don't you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?"

Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin."

Jesus was not a victim of either Rome or the Jewish leaders. The apostle Peter says in Acts 2:23 that Jesus was "delivered up by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God." God governs (controls) the world (Isa. 40:22-24), the nations (Isa. 40:15-17), and us (Proverbs 16:9).

Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD; He directs it like a watercourse wherever He pleases.

 

[Lisa0315]

Pilate didn't make that decision, Jesus said so Himself inn John 19:9-11:

Pilate said. "Don't you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?"

Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin."

Jesus was not a victim of either Rome or the Jewish leaders. The apostle Peter says in Acts 2:23 that Jesus was "delivered up by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God." God governs (controls) the world (Isa. 40:22-24), the nations (Isa. 40:15-17), and us (Proverbs 16:9).

Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD; He directs it like a watercourse wherever He pleases.

Well, of course, I understand that. However, we know this to be true, but Pilate did not. He knew Jesus was innocent, yet allowed His execution.

So, yes, Jesus laid down His life and no one took it. At the same time, the intent of the hearts on that day was murder.

Lisa

 

[JimfromOhio]

Well, of course, I understand that. However, we know this to be true, but Pilate did not. He knew Jesus was innocent, yet allowed His execution.

So, yes, Jesus laid down His life and no one took it. At the same time, the intent of the hearts on that day was murder.

Lisa

Okay.. murder, by Pilate, Jews or God?

So, when Jesus said "Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin." means that God murdered His own Son?

 

[Lisa0315]

Okay.. murder, by Pilate, Jews or God?

So, when Jesus said "Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin." means that God murdered His own Son?

Jim,
This is standard doctrine. I know you know what I am talking about. Jesus is God and laid down His life. No one took it from Him. However, there are sins of commission and sins of the heart. In this case, the sin was in the hearts of both Pilate and the Jews.

Step away from the debate, Jim. You are arguing from a position that I know you do not believe in.

Let us reason together instead.

Lisa

 

[Gregged]

Even if the Capital punishment is scripturally allowed, how is it not required, what kind of "reasoning" can this without any scriptural support?

Jim, come on... I thought this was supposed to be a vote thread only with discussion in the main thread where these issues were discussed, rather than having to duplicate it all again in here.

As for the poll, down the road, there might be a "better phrases" poll regarding the Capital Punishment.

 

[Jim47]

Well, of course, I understand that. However, we know this to be true, but Pilate did not. He knew Jesus was innocent, yet allowed His execution.

So, yes, Jesus laid down His life and no one took it. At the same time, the intent of the hearts on that day was murder.

Lisa

But that is not capital punishment, that is murder. Big difference.

Also, I strongly disagree, there is no scripture stating to not use capital punishment, none at all.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Jim,
This is standard doctrine. I know you know what I am talking about. Jesus is God and laid down His life. No one took it from Him. However, there are sins of commission and sins of the heart. In this case, the sin was in the hearts of both Pilate and the Jews.

Step away from the debate, Jim. You are arguing from a position that I know you do not believe in.

Let us reason together instead.

Lisa

I am not sure you understand what I believe in which is why I am not dropping this.

In my own life, I have learned as a Christian to answer like Joseph to his brothers who sold him into slavery, “As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good.” There are some who seem to look on the gloomy side and never able to do respond in faith to life's problems, instead, they grumble about the trials that we forget God's powerful grace.

Government are run by people whose hearts are corrupted. Yes, corrupted sins by the Jews and Pilate were "part of the plan" of God's. Satan may not be aware that God is taking advantage of Satan's plans. God knows everything before Satan even think up a plan. Satan may be powerful but not all knowing as God. God is ruling all things to work together for our good and His purpose. Romans 8:28-29 "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them." Remember, Jesus said in Matthew 10:29: Are not two sparrows sold for a penny ? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. If God can control with those two sparrows, then He will do the same for His human creatures as well.

On of my "Hall of Faith" heros is Corrie ten Boom because she has demonstrated "FAITH" in her life that she was "being sure of what she hope for, and certain of what she do not see" (See Hebrews 11:1). Ever read a story about Corrie ten Boom? If you didn't, I recommend it. She was a Christian (died in the 1980's) who suffered through Nazi concentration camps. Christians like her are happening ALL over the world every day. Corrie ten Boom was schedule to die in Nazi Camp like the rest of family did, but came out of Nazi prison alive due to clerical error through God's divine intervention. Through Corrie ten Boom's life, God was glorified through her ministry through many years until the day she died. Her ministry is still alive even though she is no longer with us physically but she is in heaven. There are people who believe that God is a God of love and grace, yet not of justice. She understood that God was in control, even if she did not understand why her family was suffering. It was HER faith in God's grace that she was able endure her pain. Like Corrie, we can place such faith in Him because of the assurance we have through His Word, even when we do not understand. Our true home and purpose is not here; it is still to come. We are not made for this world, we are just here to learn all we can, and with what Christ has given to us, make the best and most of the situations in which we find ourselves. Four (her parents and sister) Ten Booms gave their lives for this family’s commitment, but only Corrie came home from the death camp. She realized her life was a gift from God, and she needed to share what she and Betsy had learned in Ravensbruck: "There is no pit so deep that God’s love is not deeper still" and "God will give us the love to be able to forgive our enemies."


"God raises the level of the impossible." Corrie Ten Boom

Faith sees the invisible, believes the unbelievable, and receives the impossible." Corrie ten Boom

"Never be afraid to trust an unknown future to a known God." Corrie Ten Boom

There are no "if's" in God's world. And no places that are safer than other places. The center of His will is our only safety - O Corrie, let us pray that we may always know it! Corrie ten Boom, The Hiding Place (Betsie quoted on page 67)

 

[Lisa0315]

But that is not capital punishment, that is murder. Big difference.

Also, I strongly disagree, there is no scripture stating to not use capital punishment, none at all.

Hi Jim,
I voted for # 1 simply because I know Scripture allows for it, but then, Scripture also allows for divorce and slavery. Why? For the hardness of men's hearts.

All I am saying is that while Scripture may allow for CP, that does not mean we have to use it. If we are going to use it, it must be only in the most concrete cases. Evidence must be substantial leaving very little room for doubt. This would mean DNA evidence or a confession.

Even so, with DNA evidence and a confession, both, we may in some cases limit a lifespan in which God could work on the heart. We do not know that we don't. We don't know that we do.

Lisa

 

[MsAnne]

AAAAAAAnnnnnyyywayyy - back to the OP.
I couldn't really check any of the choices, but in a nutshell - I am not opposed to the death penalty. I believe in certain circumstances, it is absolutely appropriate