At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[A New Dawn]

nm

 

[Lisa0315]

Just because you stick your fingers in your ears and yell....na na nana.. Does not make it go away.

I have been in apologetics long enough to see several Christians turn away from God. Faith can not always with-stand the constant hits from the logical atheist. And I am talking about Christians of strong faith. Two of them were moderators when I first came here. These are people who have been Christians for years and now they are not.

So maybe we will win a soul.. but how many will we lose? Not everyone can endure the rigors of apologetics. Not everyone should have too.

That is not what was said. It said that those with other religions converted people away from Christianity. Go back and read it. If I am wrong, I will admit it publicly and apologize.

If anyone is swayed by atheistic logic, their faith was weak to begin with and should not have been in Debate. While I care from my weaker brothers and sisters, and I certainly will lift them up in any way that I can, that does not mean that I am going to turn my back on my true mission here. I love my brothers and sisters AND I love those that Christ has called me to speak with.

Lisa

 

[MewtwoX]

Just because you stick your fingers in your ears and yell....na na nana.. Does not make it go away.

I have been in apologetics long enough to see several Christians turn away from God. Faith can not always with-stand the constant hits from the logical atheist. And I am talking about Christians of strong faith. Two of them were moderators when I first came here. These are people who have been Christians for years and now they are not.

So maybe we will win a soul.. but how many will we lose? Not everyone can with stand the rigors of apologetics. Not everyone should have too.

I've been in apologetics as well...

Frankly, those I have seen deconvert have always told myself and everyone that it was not because of non-christian arguments, but the conduct of Christians themselves (both on this site and outside of it).


This will hurt but...


The most potent arguments against Christianity are Christians themselves.

 

[intricatic]

You are wrong on this, brother. So wrong. It wrings my heart at how wrong this is. One soul at a time, brother.

The Ninety And Nine

There were ninety and nine that safely lay
In the shelter of the fold.
But one was out on the hills away,
Far off from the gates of gold.
Away on the mountains wild and bare.
Away from the tender Shepherd’s care.
Away from the tender Shepherd’s care.
“Lord, Thou hast here Thy ninety and nine;
Are they not enough for Thee?”
But the Shepherd made answer: “This of Mine
Has wandered away from Me;
And although the road be rough and steep,
I go to the desert to find My sheep,
I go to the desert to find My sheep.”
But none of the ransomed ever knew
How deep were the waters crossed;
Nor how dark was the night the Lord passed through
Ere He found His sheep that was lost.
Out in the desert He heard its cry,
Sick and helpless and ready to die;
Sick and helpless and ready to die.
“Lord, whence are those blood drops all the way
That mark out the mountain’s track?”
“They were shed for one who had gone astray
Ere the Shepherd could bring him back.”
“Lord, whence are Thy hands so rent and torn?”
“They are pierced tonight by many a thorn;
They are pierced tonight by many a thorn.”
And all through the mountains, thunder riven
And up from the rocky steep,
There arose a glad cry to the gate of Heaven,
“Rejoice! I have found My sheep!”
And the angels echoed around the throne,
“Rejoice, for the Lord brings back His own!
Rejoice, for the Lord brings back His own!”

I say that because it's what happened when I first approached this site. I was almost repulsed by many of the Christians who were selling the faith out, which was the original gripe that led me to believe that God didn't exist; there were no signs of it in the people around me, and I used that as a measure. I had to learn that has no part to play in reflection of God, however. I know many other people who have shared similar experiences, as well.

 

[A New Dawn]

In the old CF we had more deconversions in the Debate area than ever. We also had non-Christians outnumber Christians 2-1 in GA.

In the new CF we had (at least what I know of) 2 conversions to Christianity and more and more Christians are joining the debates in GA.

Imo, the new CF (option 1) is better.

G-d bless,
sc

I think your premise is flawed in that nobody ever kept statistics on how many conversions vs. how many deconverstions there were because there is no accurate way to collect that data. The deconversions might have been noisy, and therefore obvious, while the conversions were private, joyous moments.

I personally received a few PMs from members who converted on CF asking for icon changes that probably didn't go into GA, etc., and make a big noise about it, so all that needs to be taken into consideration.

 

[The Bellman]

So if the poll continues to go as it has, we go back to what was the case a couple months ago...most of the site for Christians, with small areas in which non-Christians can speak, moderators all being Christian, and so forth?

Great. A wonderful step backward.

 

[Uphill Battle]

In Mod apps, you need at least a 70% approval rating to "pass." Will this be the same? Just noting that currently option 2 has a 60 something percent approval... which would not be a pass under the same system.

or, is it majority rules?

 

[Hentenza]

I think your premise is flawed in that nobody ever kept statistics on how many conversions vs. how many deconverstions there were because there is no accurate way to collect that date. The deconversions might have been noisy, and therefore obvious, while the conversions were private, joyous moments.

I personally received a few PMs from members who converted on CF asking for icon changes that probably didn't go into GA, etc., and make a big noise about it, so all that needs to be taken into consideration.

Great point!!

 

[Inan3]

and the bottom line, some Christians here think they are above the nonbelievers SIMPLY bc they're Christian. they say they can't be competent mods bc they couldn't possibly know how to give good advice adn some Christians here would like nothing more thna to shove them back into their little dark corners.

i'm ashamed to be a Christian today.

I understand how it can be perceived, that when Christians prefer not to have unbelievers making decisions and giving advise, it because we see them as incompetent, but in truth it is because when a person is Born Again he no longer thinks the same and he wants someone to relate to that. He becomes alive spiritually, a new creation, hence, the term "Born Again".

Jesus told us that except a man be born again he CANNOT "see", "perceive", or "understand" the Kingdom of God. Christians are concerned with the Kingdom of God. Unbelievers are not. It is just that simple.

The scriptures teach us that the natural man cannot discern the things of the spirit for they are spiritually discerned. An unbeliever would not even understand what I am talking about now. They will think I am saying one thing when I am saying something else.

Born again Christians perceive life from the vantage point of Christ being our Lord. An unbeliever cannot fathom that. Not because they or intellectually incompetent but because ..... they are not Born Again. I'm sorry but they cannot understand what they cannot see.

 

[ALiberalTeen]

In Mod apps, you need at least a 70% approval rating to "pass." Will this be the same? Just noting that currently option 2 has a 60 something percent approval... which would not be a pass under the same system.

or, is it majority rules?

Hopefully it has to have 70%, that would be the best way.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I don't care for the way either options are worded. I would need further elaboration what both really mean, before I can make an educated and heartfelt decision. Both options seem a little leading and more like a soundbite.

 

[MariaRegina]

For the record, I do not believe this is true. I do not believe that a single Christian has been swayed away from Christ because of the promotions of other religions here. Take from this what you wish. I do not believe it.

Lisa

Lisa,

Frightfully, yes, GCC is correct.

In TAW we had about three new Christian men who felt that they could singlehandedly convert the atheists and agnostics to Christianity. Several of us started a special thread and counselled them that it was not prudent for new inexperienced Christians to go into the debate forums.

They would not listen.

After only one month, they had deconverted from Christianity to atheism. In fact, one is now an avowed Marxist Communist who proudly displays the former flag of the Soviet Union. He can be found posting at IIDB the last time I looked.

Remember this is only one of the congregational forums here at CF. Ask other members from the other fora what their tales are.

Even losing one Christian to atheism is tragic. I have talked to several and they wish they could come back because they have dreams of burning in hell. I try to reassure them that if they would only trust in God, God would hear their prayers, but they cannot. They no longer have faith or hope. They are experiencing hell right now while they are alive. We must pray for them.

 

[A New Dawn]

It chokes me with tears that this is true.

Lisa

If we all knew what this was about, maybe we could discuss it in a more rational sense. But making all these insinuations is just poisoning the well.

 

[Lisa0315]

I say that because it's what happened when I first approached this site. I was almost repulsed by many of the Christians who were selling the faith out, which was the original gripe that led me to believe that God didn't exist; there were no signs of it in the people around me, and I used that as a measure. I had to learn that has no part to play in reflection of God, however. I know many other people who have shared similar experiences, as well.

If I am understanding the context correctly, that is completely different from a non-Christian causing a de-conversion.

It was my same experience and it was many "Christians" who turned me off in real life. It was a single Christian whose love and compassion helped me make a decision for Christ.

One Christian, for twenty three years...

Lisa

 

[Hentenza]

In Mod apps, you need at least a 70% approval rating to "pass." Will this be the same? Just noting that currently option 2 has a 60 something percent approval... which would not be a pass under the same system.

or, is it majority rules?

Don't know, UB. The question has been asked but no answer has been given so I guess is up to Erwin.

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

That is not what was said. It said that those with other religions converted people away from Christianity. Go back and read it. If I am wrong, I will admit it publicly and apologize.

If anyone is swayed by atheistic logic, their faith was weak to begin with and should not have been in Debate.

so, how do we get those who "faith was weak to begin with" from entering NCR or those other debate areas? are we gonna police the area making sure new belivers dont enter?

All you have to do is gain access to the old reports. search NCR and see that 99.9% of those reported were for promoting of other religions. its there in black and white. this isnt opinion-it is fact backed up by records.

 

[intricatic]

If I am understanding the context correctly, that is completely different from a non-Christian causing a de-conversion.

It was my same experience and it was many "Christians" who turned me off in real life. It was a single Christian whose love and compassion helped me make a decision for Christ.

One Christian, for twenty three years...

Lisa

No, the point is that this very griping that's going on in this thread - the wiki based indecision and the perpetual watering down of what a Christian ministry is supposed to do is elemental to what initially caused me to lose my faith, way back when. I'm not saying in specific terms, though, because wikis weren't something I ever ran into back then.

 

[A New Dawn]

For the record, I do not believe this is true. I do not believe that a single Christian has been swayed away from Christ because of the promotions of other religions here. Take from this what you wish. I do not believe it.

Lisa

You don't know about the poll they had regarding the issue? It was pretty well broadcast. Ask them about it.

 

[+RubiesFire+]

Just because you stick your fingers in your ears and yell....na na nana.. Does not make it go away.

I have been in apologetics long enough to see several Christians turn away from God. Faith can not always with-stand the constant hits from the logical atheist. And I am talking about Christians of strong faith. Two of them were moderators when I first came here. These are people who have been Christians for years and now they are not.

So maybe we will win a soul.. but how many will we lose? Not everyone can endure the rigors of apologetics. Not everyone should have too.

True. Faith is always going to be tested in one way or another.

Even I have seen the strongest of Christians who praised God on a daily basis suddenly end their journey with Him.

The person I met one month after I joined CF, and he was one of the STRONGEST Christians I knew. He just denounced his Christian belief to me two weeks ago. He's an atheist now.

Why? Things from this site destroyed him. A site has more power than people think, and many wonder-"How can a website destroy a person's faith?" It just can.

 

[Lisa0315]

If we all knew what this was about, maybe we could discuss it in a more rational sense. But making all these insinuations is just poisoning the well.

I have said that there is a soul hanging in the balance right now. There is one person who has contributed greatly to New CF. I have posted a link. This person is an atheist who is now sporting a title that says, "I was a stranger and you took me in", and a signature that speaks of Christianity going into the darkest and neediest places. The seed has been planted because this person has been working side by side with Christians. When I told of this before, it was stated that there were more important things than "just" one soul. That is what I weep over.

Lisa